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Mad Men (spoilers obvs, this shit is old)

Started by alan nagsworth, December 02, 2018, 12:56:31 PM

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alan nagsworth

I ain't covering my spoilers in this thread. If you haven't seen this show before, close this tab and go watch it.

I just finished watching this and thought it might be nice to have a natter about it. It's pretty fucking good, isn't it? Well, for the most part: the first two seasons are very decent, the following three are remarkably good, the sixth is a slog due to the writers strike but it redeems itself fairly well in its closing season.

Peggy Olsen is one of my all-time favourite characters, everything she represents, and her development, just absolutely brilliant from beginning to end. I also adored the flawed but endearing personalities of Roger Sterling and Peter Campbell. Pete's almost ceaseless lack of empathy never fails to entertain, and Roger, well... ah, I just love everything about him. Honourable mention also due to Sally Draper. They're my three favourites.

Overall, the set design and wardrobe of this show is remarkable, and everything about its production globs a slick, glossy veneer over an otherwise vapid and lonely world that is compelling, beautiful and very sad, and at its centre, the tempestuous ball of emptiness himself, Don Draper.

I will admit that there was a spell during the sixth and part of the seventh season where I found myself asking, how many times are we going to see Don obsessing over a woman he hardly knows, fucking everything up and quietly murmuring "I've made a mistake, and I'm sorry. I'm not a good person"? But in the end, I feel like it was justified for the moments where he's completely exposed and broken. When he receives the call that Anna has died, and in the finale when Leonard gives his monologue about the refrigerator dream, during both scenes I was caught right in the headlights and I certainly cried with him. Jon Hamm is a phenomenal talent.

I'd also like to give a shoutout to its rare but wonderful comedic moments, most notably the chip 'n' dip, and that scene where Don does the impression of the crying baby. "WAHHH. WAHHH. WAHHH."

kngen

Quote from: alan nagsworth on December 02, 2018, 12:56:31 PM
I'd also like to give a shoutout to its rare but wonderful comedic moments, most notably the chip 'n' dip, and that scene where Don does the impression of the crying baby. "WAHHH. WAHHH. WAHHH."

I like the pictures of the earth! I find them to be majestic!

Laughed long and hard at that, and had to rewind a fair bit to see what I'd missed.

MuteBanana

I remember years back seeing a trailer for the show on Sky. I think it was for the series where they get their own office. I remember thinking it looked pretty good. But I tried to get into it a few times and nothing clicked. Probably got two or three episodes in and just nothing.

So I don't know why but earlier this year I decided to give it another go and stuck with it. Ended up loving it.

This is a video discussing Joan Holloway's character that some may enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNGs4IW8ruo

buttgammon

One of my favourite TV series of all time. It has a few peaks and troughs but it's generally magnificent. The characters are so great that they easily carry it through the lower points.

An unsung comedic moment is Lane's first suicide attempt, in which he can't get the car running. The final deed is a genuinely shocking and horrific moment (which the other actors weren't prepared for, apparently), but the build-up is weirdly funny.

MuteBanana



cliggg

Yep love this show. One of it's greatest strengths I think is the fact that it seems to just drop storylines but actually 1 or 2 seasons later something happens which is a direct reference to the thing I thought was just forgotten about. Two things that I always thought were very well done were, 1 Peggy giving her baby away, most shows would get 3 seasons out of that but they just made it a part of her character and referenced it occasionally and 2 Joan being raped, it wasn't mentioned again and I thought it was gone but about 1 and a half seasons later a male character say to her "your the one dressing like you want to be raped" and it was such a gutpunch for me watching it, it meant so much more because they didn't keep on referencing it. Great great show.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: cliggg on December 02, 2018, 09:38:13 PM
Yep love this show. One of it's greatest strengths I think is the fact that it seems to just drop storylines but actually 1 or 2 seasons later something happens which is a direct reference to the thing I thought was just forgotten about. Two things that I always thought were very well done were, 1 Peggy giving her baby away, most shows would get 3 seasons out of that but they just made it a part of her character and referenced it occasionally and 2 Joan being raped, it wasn't mentioned again and I thought it was gone but about 1 and a half seasons later a male character say to her "your the one dressing like you want to be raped" and it was such a gutpunch for me watching it, it meant so much more because they didn't keep on referencing it. Great great show.

Yeah, nicely put. The callback of Peggy's baby when she reveals it to Stan was excellent stuff. I also thought that how it affected her relationship with Pete, even down to subtle, knowing glances and flickers of this past event which affected her life, was brilliantly written and performed.

Quote from: mr. logic on December 02, 2018, 06:18:26 PM
The best ending to any TV show ever.

I was genuinely very sad to see it end, although there was a small part of me that felt like it was a bit too "final". I can acknowledge that you never know what the future might bring for these mad pissheads, but nevertheless I felt like it could have been a bit more cool with how it delivered the scenes where Joan sets up her own business and Peggy and Stan realise they're in love (even though I found both of these plot points resolutely strong). I wouldn't say it was the best I've ever seen but in terms of "wrapping everything up in a neat package" endings, it certainly was very strong stuff.

Icehaven

Got into it towards the end of series one, went back and caught up and followed it avidly through to the bitter-ish end. Agree with what others said about the first two or three series being best and there being a slight drop-off in quality after that but not enough to matter too much, I still found it compelling and have missed having a new series to look forward to since. It did more or less ruin most other big American TV series for me.

Quote from: cliggg on December 02, 2018, 09:38:13 PM
One of it's greatest strengths I think is the fact that it seems to just drop storylines but actually 1 or 2 seasons later something happens which is a direct reference to the thing I thought was just forgotten about.

Definitely, but it also works when it's left hanging, like Sal's storyline, we see him make one last sad phone call to his wife and he's gone, so you always wonder if he's going to pop up again and you just have to imagine how it played out for him, and it's all the better for not insisting on every loose end being tied. If anything I thought the last episode did try and overdo that a bit but then it was a finale. I always thought the thing about Peggy and Pete's baby would get out and have a big impact, but realised a few series later that that's not really how MM worked and quietly hoped they weren't just saving it for the last few episodes.

non capisco

^ I went off it when the poster above pointed out Megan looks like Freddie Mercury.

In all seriousness that bit where Duck Phillips boots his dog out of the office because he doesn't want it to see him drinking again is brilliantly sad. Mad Men at its best was full of moments like that.

Icehaven

Quote from: non capisco on December 03, 2018, 09:09:18 PM
^ I went off it when the poster above pointed out Megan looks like Freddie Mercury.


Oh yeah! Soz ;)

mr. logic

Quote from: icehaven on December 03, 2018, 10:18:16 AM
Got into it towards the end of series one, went back and caught up and followed it avidly through to the bitter-ish end. Agree with what others said about the first two or three series being best and there being a slight drop-off in quality after that but not enough to matter too much, I still found it compelling and have missed having a new series to look forward to since. It did more or less ruin most other big American TV series for me.

Definitely, but it also works when it's left hanging, like Sal's storyline, we see him make one last sad phone call to his wife and he's gone, so you always wonder if he's going to pop up again and you just have to imagine how it played out for him, and it's all the better for not insisting on every loose end being tied. If anything I thought the last episode did try and overdo that a bit but then it was a finale. I always thought the thing about Peggy and Pete's baby would get out and have a big impact, but realised a few series later that that's not really how MM worked and quietly hoped they weren't just saving it for the last few episodes.

Remind me, did Peggy tell Pete? She did eventually, didn't she? Or did I dream that?

Icehaven

Quote from: mr. logic on December 04, 2018, 12:45:24 PM
Remind me, did Peggy tell Pete? She did eventually, didn't she? Or did I dream that?

She did, think it was at an office party about 3 or 4 series in (my memory is also a bit fuzzy though, so I could be way out on the timing there) so I thought it was going to have an effect then, he'd demand to see it or tell someone who told someone who told someone etc. but I was wrong.

I've actually just remembered something I got completely wrong, for ages I thought Peggy's sister was raising the baby as her own, as due to MM's characteristic tendency to have major plot developments happen off-screen or between seasons (there were loads of marriages but I think only one actual wedding in the whole series, Roger's daughter the day after JFK was shot) and the fact I was probably a bit drunk when I watched it I don't remember it being expressly stated she was giving it up, and her sister seemed to have a baby around the same time so I thought it was just agreed between them and they were getting on with it. It took me a good while to work out that Peggy wasn't looking at the baby sadly and awkwardly because it was hers, just because it was a baby.

buttgammon

Quote from: icehaven on December 04, 2018, 12:49:03 PM
I've actually just remembered something I got completely wrong, for ages I thought Peggy's sister was raising the baby as her own, as due to MM's characteristic tendency to have major plot developments happen off-screen or between seasons (there were loads of marriages but I think only one actual wedding in the whole series, Roger's daughter the day after JFK was shot) and the fact I was probably a bit drunk when I watched it I don't remember it being expressly stated she was giving it up, and her sister seemed to have a baby around the same time so I thought it was just agreed between them and they were getting on with it. It took me a good while to work out that Peggy wasn't looking at the baby sadly and awkwardly because it was hers, just because it was a baby.

Having watched the entire run of Mad Men three times, I've only just realised this!

Dex Sawash

Not having that, Peggy's sister has Peggy's baby.

chveik


Icehaven


buttgammon



mjwilson

Peggy's sister apparently has her own baby.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180201053219/https://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/10/mad-men-peggy-b.html

Yeah I thought the baby she sees in the bedroom is her sister's, and her baby with Pete was given away. If her sister had the kid and she could see it any time she wanted, her conflicted feelings on career vs motherhood, and conversations with Pete and Stan about it wouldn't make sense.

Icehaven

Quote from: Carpool Dragon on December 15, 2018, 05:14:50 PM
Yeah I thought the baby she sees in the bedroom is her sister's, and her baby with Pete was given away. If her sister had the kid and she could see it any time she wanted, her conflicted feelings on career vs motherhood, and conversations with Pete and Stan about it wouldn't make sense.

Yeah that makes sense, I thought the sister's baby was Peggy's as it appeared around the same time and it wasn't explicitly shown that she gave hers away, but when it was pointed out to me that it wasn't I realised I'd just presumed it.

Bazooka

Quote from: Jockice on December 05, 2018, 08:44:12 AM
Agreed!

I'll thirdly agree, however a part of me still wanted to see Don at Betty/Birdies funeral. This show was bloody phenomenal if you ask me especially for its attention to detail.

Jerzy Bondov

Pete Campbell is my favourite character. Not just in Mad Men, in anything. The cunt's cunt. I'll fourthly agree that the end was perfect, but I would also like to know how Pete managed to ruin his new life in Kansas. I don't see how he couldn't have. What an amazing mix of entitlement, inferiority, spite, dishonesty, envy.

Jockice

The end was so perfect I wonder if they actually started with that and worked backwards.