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Inaccurate or odd portrayals of British comedy

Started by George White, December 03, 2018, 08:47:43 AM

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George White

I was watching The Good Place, and the episode where Tahani watches her favourite BBC sitcom, "Deirdre (pronounced Deerdra in the Irish manner) and Margaret", and it got me thinking about slightly off/odd portrayals of UK TV, especially comedy in TV series and films, sometimes but not always foreign.

Another one, though British, National Treasure where Robbie Coltrane plays a Yewtreed celeb who is supposed to have been big in the 80s, but is portrayed as being a kind of Tarby/Ronnie Barker type, despite being presumably part of a Hale and Pace  -type comedy duo.Although there is, as someone pointed out here, something of the Lennie and Jerry, or perhaps Cheese and Onion.


Icehaven

Family Guy have had a go at Monty Python a few times, directly when Meg is forced to watch it for some reason and I've got a vague memory of there being a cutaway or similar to them watching something called 'Silly Buggers' which was possibly also an MP pisstake, or maybe just a general 'isn't British comedy outdated and awful?' dig. 

Chriddof

Dunno if this is quite the same thing, but there's an episode of Ellen DeGeneres's sitcom from the 90s where she dates a very very posh English man (this was in one of the seasons before she came out) and he has no concept of American television whatsoever, and when he watches some standard sitcoms he's bowled over by them and insists on taking her to tapings of in-universe versions of various early-mid 90s network fare. Ellen gets upset and dumps him because she was hoping that he'd teach her about the arts and, I dunno, introduce her to the Queen or something. The way the writers seemingly had no idea that loads of US sitcoms and American media in general get shown over here killed the plot for me, even though the idea of some upper class twat watching a minute of Married With Children (for example) and then going out to apply for regular audience tickets is sort of amusing.

A number of Mike Myers's UK-centric sketches for SNL have some slightly odd details - at the end of one they show the late 80s BBC globe (in about 1993 or something) and have a fake continuity announcer say that The Benny Hill Show is coming up next. Hill left the Beeb in 1969, never to return, and ITV stopped repeating his shows quite soon after he died in 92.

icehaven: I've not seen that Family Guy sketch, but that's also another thing that might demonstrate how a large amount of Americans don't realise that there's more to British comedy than Python, Mr Bean and Benny Hill.

Famous Mortimer

Myers worked over here as a young man (he and Neil Mullarkey did a segment for "The Wide Awake Club" called "The Sound Asleep Club", where they were both in their pyjamas and did stuff like a cooking segment where they made a glass of water), so I'd guess he'd have plenty of first-hand knowledge of British comedy. Plus, Hill was weirdly popular over there, so it's perhaps just "insert a reference they'd understand"?

gilbertharding

Family Guy is, of course, what it is - but they've done some pretty funny (if wrong) cutaway jokes at the expense of VER YOOKAY over the years, including the British Porn which featured a completely motionless couple, with the man intoning 'nearly... nearly... nearly...'.

There was another one where Prince Charles was in a parade in a horse drawn carriage and the crowd was shouting 'WANKAH!!' at him over and over. He's in the carriage wearily replying 'I know... I know...'

It's all hacky 'they are all uptight, with bad teeth and cling too much to history', so could be annoying if it went on too long (I think they have a couple of episodes like that), but for a five second cutaway I think it works.

bigfatheart

It's not quite the same thing, but I can remember being involved in a discussion a few years back in the AV Club comments section (back before it all went to shit) with a couple of Americans who were insistent that When the Whistle Blows from Extras was an accurate depiction of what all non-Gervais British sitcoms were like. In particular, I can remember Father Ted being described as 'exactly the same'.

Slightly pedantic, but it always both amused and grated with me that on one episode the Larry Sanders Show, Dana Carvey does an impression of the Four Yorkshiremen sketch... with a cockney accent. I mean, it's hardly like the variations in British accents are common knowledge in the US, but that did seem a pretty big example of missing the point.

mojo filters

I've not seen that Family Guy sketch, but having seen others it's hardly a stretch to suggest it's a bit unfair to tar all Americans with the same understanding of comedy as that one note wonder Seth McFarlane.

Icehaven

Quote from: Chriddof on December 03, 2018, 12:28:03 PM

icehaven: I've not seen that Family Guy sketch, but that's also another thing that might demonstrate how a large amount of Americans don't realise that there's more to British comedy than Python, Mr Bean and Benny Hill.

It's like us saying there's nothing more to US comedy than Saturday Night Live, Friends and the National Lampoon films. 

Just generally, how aware is the average American TV viewer that stuff like The Office, Shameless and Veep etc. are remakes of recent British shows?

mojo filters

I always have to bite my tongue when Americans wax lyrically about some supposedly amazing SNL sketch.

I always thought Aaron Sorkin caught that show perfectly on his ill fated Studio 60 On The Sunset Strip, as the criticism that the sketches and humour on the show-within-a-show weren't funny seemed quite realistic.

What's weird is how SNL gets such big stars, for example Ben Stiller and Alex Baldwin on a Trump/Cohen sketch shown on Morning Joe today, when the writing is so weak and sometimes just outright awful.

Occasionally their attempts hit the mark, such as the Matt Damon/Kavanaugh hearing - but then they already have such absurd material to start with, it's just like "writing" the Tina Fey/Amy Poehler Sarah Palin/Katie Couric interview.

The Culture Bunker

"Do Shut Up" on the Simpsons. Cockney football hooligans, I recall, with bonus points for Homer using the word 'wanker' when describing it.


Chriddof

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on December 03, 2018, 12:34:27 PM
Myers worked over here as a young man (he and Neil Mullarkey did a segment for "The Wide Awake Club" called "The Sound Asleep Club", where they were both in their pyjamas and did stuff like a cooking segment where they made a glass of water), so I'd guess he'd have plenty of first-hand knowledge of British comedy. Plus, Hill was weirdly popular over there, so it's perhaps just "insert a reference they'd understand"?

I think you're right - and I should have mentioned the TV-am thing, which was in the back of my mind when I made that post but didn't write it down like a clot. I do like how Myers continues to put Mullarkey in little cameos and things in his various projects.

Quote from: mojo filters on December 03, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
I've not seen that Family Guy sketch, but having seen others it's hardly a stretch to suggest it's a bit unfair to tar all Americans with the same understanding of comedy as that one note wonder Seth McFarlane.

I didn't say all Americans! I'm aware of everyone posting here from the US, for a start - I'm more talking about average people, rather than comedy fans.

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on December 03, 2018, 01:51:26 PM
"Do Shut Up" on the Simpsons. Cockney football hooligans, I recall, with bonus points for Homer using the word 'wanker' when describing it.

Quote from: George White on December 03, 2018, 02:47:37 PM
And the Thames logo.

I don't think I ever realised how odd and labyrinthine the old ITV system was until I had to attempt to describe it to someone from overseas. Also a lot of Americans aren't aware that Thames no longer really exists as such because in foreign markets the old Thames ident remains at the start of every show, giving the impression that they're still around. That includes everything made from 1989 onwards, like every single edition of Mr Bean - it's been edited onto the start of all of those, apparently.

Quote from: icehaven on December 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
It's like us saying there's nothing more to US comedy than Saturday Night Live, Friends and the National Lampoon films. 

Just generally, how aware is the average American TV viewer that stuff like The Office, Shameless and Veep etc. are remakes of recent British shows?

As for The Office, it seems to be a running gag amongst various stars in talk show appearances that you can't mention the US Office to Brits because they'll flip their lid over how they "ruined" it. That's not true for me personally, but there seems to be plenty of people in Youtube comments and the like who do keep that sort of argument going. Someone will basically say "ah, but Friends!" if someone insults Bottom.

Quote from: mojo filters on December 03, 2018, 01:43:16 PM
I always have to bite my tongue when Americans wax lyrically about some supposedly amazing SNL sketch.

I really like the very silly ones they do - the two part "Darrell's House" was based on an old kind of premise (an unprofessional, badly edited TV show) but it was impressive seeing it done the way it was, and apparently partially live (as far as I know). I also liked that David S. Pumpkins thing from last year, as well as that unbroadcast one they stuck out as an online exclusive about the 70s cop show that kept ending too early (though that was spoilt a bit at one point by a crap surreal animal gag).

ajsmith2

I always got the impression that it was the hip thing in the US to say you prefer the original UK Office to the US remake. Gervais got a lot more deified in the US too, way beyond his abilities and with no consideration for his superior peers, like he was this singular innate genius in UK comedy that rose from nowhere. I'm glad that reputation seems to have faded quite a bit these days, as 5-10 years ago it was unbearable. The comment mentioned above about some US comedy buff sagely stating that all UK comedy was like the shit show within a shit show in Extras will probably now annoy me until I die.

mojo filters

I think Gervais was deified after he "shocked" celebrities at the Emmys. I think Americans cottoned on to his one-note shtick after the second or third attempt.

The US Office won deserved acclaim in its own right, once they found their mojo in the second season. Steve Carrell was just one amongst an inspired piece of casting. Aaron Sorkin has frequently credited the US Office as a respectable television show, with similar affection shown only otherwise towards Parks & Rec.

I think comedy afficionados in America saw through the absurd inclusion of Gervais alongside solid standups, in that irritating show he made with Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and a pre-exposed-cock-out-wanking Louis CK.

It was definitely hip for a time to express love for the UK Office. All the critics praised the apparent "economy" of what notable TV experts and podcasters Sarah D. Bunting and Tara Ariano (founders/main writers for TWOP) called a "tight British six" format.

I think these days US folks in the know are as likely to credit Steve Merchant as Gervais, when it comes to appraising The Office. And Steve Merchant's short lived US show hardly got wide exposure.

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

I do get disproportionately irritated when Americans go on about Benny Hill. No British person under the age of 45 has ever seen an episode of Benny Hill! I believe they show it on BBC America a lot, which gives Americans the impression we're obsessed with it, but they don't even repeat it here, and it hasn't really remained in the public consciousness (in the same way e.g. Monty Python has).

MuteBanana

Quote from: icehaven on December 03, 2018, 12:19:05 PM
Family Guy have had a go at Monty Python a few times, directly when Meg is forced to watch it for some reason and I've got a vague memory of there being a cutaway or similar to them watching something called 'Silly Buggers' which was possibly also an MP pisstake, or maybe just a general 'isn't British comedy outdated and awful?' dig.

Does Macfarlane like Python or does he just use it as a stereotype to abuse?

Oliver Mardy

Quote from: Kishi the Bad Lampshade on December 08, 2018, 09:41:52 PM
I do get disproportionately irritated when Americans go on about Benny Hill. No British person under the age of 45 has ever seen an episode of Benny Hill! I believe they show it on BBC America a lot, which gives Americans the impression we're obsessed with it, but they don't even repeat it here, and it hasn't really remained in the public consciousness (in the same way e.g. Monty Python has).

He's not shown "a lot" on BBC America. And I would ask you to think about which Americans "go on" about Benny Hill, and see if they aren't also over 45, like the British people you mention.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: Chriddof on December 03, 2018, 12:28:03 PM
A number of Mike Myers's UK-centric sketches for SNL have some slightly odd details - at the end of one they show the late 80s BBC globe (in about 1993 or something) and have a fake continuity announcer say that The Benny Hill Show is coming up next. Hill left the Beeb in 1969, never to return, and ITV stopped repeating his shows quite soon after he died in 92.

I believe Myer's dad was from Liverpool and Canadians were privy to all sorts of British
TV comedy in the 70s and 80s.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Kishi the Bad Lampshade on December 08, 2018, 09:41:52 PM
I do get disproportionately irritated when Americans go on about Benny Hill. No British person under the age of 45 has ever seen an episode of Benny Hill! I believe they show it on BBC America a lot, which gives Americans the impression we're obsessed with it, but they don't even repeat it here, and it hasn't really remained in the public consciousness (in the same way e.g. Monty Python has).

While I agree with you to an extent, I think it's more accurate to say that no British person under the age of 35 has ever seen an episode of Benny Hill. I'm 44, and I remember watching The Benny Hill Show - Thames cancelled it in 1989. Even as a child I never like him, I always found his stuff quite grubby and depressing, but he was undoubtedly a well-known TV fixture when growing up in the '80s.

Oliver Mardy

Quote from: Kishi the Bad Lampshade on December 08, 2018, 09:41:52 PM
I do get disproportionately irritated when Americans go on about Benny Hill...snip...it hasn't really remained in the public consciousness (in the same way e.g. Monty Python has).

Sorry to pile on you! But  would argue Hill is more in "the public consciousness" than Python. Think of The Office with the head-slapping routine. Think of the theme tune FFS. Think of Boris Johnson and his bumblingly hilarious attempts at sexual assault good-natured skirt chasing. Which parts of Python can compare to those? I suggest you are basing your thoughts on your own opinions, not those of the public.

Oliver Mardy

Of course, I just realized Python was also referenced in The Office.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 08, 2018, 10:25:15 PM
While I agree with you to an extent, I think it's more accurate to say that no British person under the age of 35 has ever seen an episode of Benny Hill. I'm 44, and I remember watching The Benny Hill Show - Thames cancelled it in 1989. Even as a child I never like him, I always found his stuff quite grubby and depressing, but he was undoubtedly a well-known TV fixture when growing up in the '80s.

I was about to say the same thing, being 44 as well, but tragically I did like it as a little kid, though once I got to about ten or eleven I realised how rubbish it was.

I was always a bit disappointed by Community's Doctor Who spoof Inspector Spacetime, for a show which was often so innovative a lot of the humour found within the parody felt a bit lazy and dull.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Oliver Mardy on December 08, 2018, 10:38:29 PM
Sorry to pile on you! But  would argue Hill is more in "the public consciousness" than Python. Think of The Office with the head-slapping routine. Think of the theme tune FFS. Think of Boris Johnson and his bumblingly hilarious attempts at sexual assault good-natured skirt chasing. Which parts of Python can compare to those? I suggest you are basing your thoughts on your own opinions, not those of the public.

Awareness of, and references to, Monty Python are far more prevalent in British popular culture than Benny Hill. Sure, even if you've never seen Hill's show, you'll probably recognise Yakkety Sax as a piece of wacky comedy music, but that's about it.

Meanwhile, the Monty Python troupe are widely recognised as among the greats of comedy, their work is still cited as influential. Seminal, even. I'm not having a go at Hill - his work didn't appeal to me personally, but it would be foolish to deny that he was a big, popular star in his day - but if you took a random poll of people under the age of 40, you'd find that most of them would be more aware of Python than Hill.

The Python films are still shown on TV. Younger comedians mention them frequently. They sold out several shows at the O2 a few years ago. They're quite obviously more prominent in the public consciousness than Benny Hill. 

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on December 08, 2018, 10:52:44 PM
I was about to say the same thing, being 44 as well, but tragically I did like it as a little kid, though once I got to about ten or eleven I realised how rubbish it was.

I was obviously an unbearable comedy snob from a very early age.

The Culture Bunker

I'm 37 and Benny Hill is a very vague memory - I'm not sure if repeats were on TV in the late 80s or not. I probably saw him the Italian Job, if anything.

But I certainly remember being with my Granddad and cousin watching Monty Python as some point in that same era. For some reason, the sketch with the Pallbearers is deeply inscribed in my mind as something Grandpop found hilarious.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on December 08, 2018, 11:04:57 PM
I'm 37 and Benny Hill is a very vague memory - I'm not sure if repeats were on TV in the late 80s or not. I probably saw him the Italian Job, if anything.

As I say, Hill's show was axed in 1989, so your vague memories probably stem from seeing him on TV while he was still active.

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on December 08, 2018, 11:04:57 PM
But I certainly remember being with my Granddad and cousin watching Monty Python as some point in that same era. For some reason, the sketch with the Pallbearers is deeply inscribed in my mind as something Grandpop found hilarious.

The first series of Python was repeated in its entirety on BBC2 in the early '90s, so that adds up.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 08, 2018, 11:01:59 PM
I was obviously an unbearable comedy snob from a very early age.

Nah, I just tended to be incredibly easily pleased and love everything on tv until I got to the age of 10, hell, Russ Abbot's Madhouse was the highlight of my week at one point.

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: MuteBanana on December 08, 2018, 09:45:18 PM
Does Macfarlane like Python or does he just use it as a stereotype to abuse?

He probably didn't write those jokes.

Here's something Macfarlane said in an interview:

QuoteYou've always been very good at laughing at the British. What is it that makes us such easy targets?

I've always been a huge fan of British comedy. Monty Python, Benny Hill, The Young Ones, Blackadder – in my little town, we were able to get our hands on some of that stuff. I like to laugh at the British because the British are always so good at laughing at themselves, and I just want to be part of that thing. Americans are terrible at laughing at themselves.

St_Eddie

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on December 09, 2018, 12:22:03 AM
QuoteI like to laugh at the British because the British are always so good at laughing at themselves, and I just want to be part of that thing.

I don't think he's quite understood the concept of one laughing at oneself, there.