Author Topic: So... Them French Protests, eh?  (Read 5407 times)

Blumf

  • Not long now
    • IGNORE ME!!!
So... Them French Protests, eh?
« on: December 03, 2018, 11:50:14 AM »
Seems to be a demand for a thread, so here I go filling it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46417991
Quote


French President Emmanuel Macron has held an urgent security meeting following a day of riots by thousands of anti-government protesters.

Ministers said that while no options had been ruled out, imposing a state of emergency had not been discussed during the talks - despite earlier reports.

Protests over fuel tax have grown into general anger at higher living costs.

Three people have been killed in the protests since demonstrations started more than two weeks ago, police said.

Now, France is famous for it's bolshie civil disobedience, but this one seems to be taking a bit longer than normal to settle down. That Macron fella isn't exactly popular (approval rating around 29%, compare that with Trump's 44%), seemingly the only reason the arch-centrist former banker got in was, it was either him or the lovely bunch of lads (and lasses) in Front National.

Will Macron be booted? Is that a possibility?

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 11:56:19 AM »
From what I can tell the real problem is that the day shift are your french protester classique - just up for being obstructive, maybe setting fire to a sheep, that sort of thing, and that at the end of the day after some hard protesting go home and the night shift of young hoodlums, anarchists etc take on the duties, albeit a bit more freeform and then off to bed just as Jacques classique clocks back in.

All you need is a high vis vest and you can join in as well.


Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 11:56:45 AM »
I think the violence from agitators shocked most of the demonstrators and deflected some of the criticism of Macron. But even so, his job is on the line if he can’t calm them down.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 11:59:48 AM »
Macron would kill to be as popular as Donald Trump right now, that's how bad its got. The final death knell of centrism, as it goes up in flames in one of the worlds major capitals. Or will they just double down even more?


That said, this is an absolutely lovely bit of creative rioting - https://twitter.com/DailySabah/status/1069333678290075648?s=19

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 12:05:33 PM »
Macron would kill to be as popular as Donald Trump right now, that's how bad its got.


Alas he's lacking in a few things:

1: A personal propaganda wing like Faux News
2: A bizarre cult of personality that seems to deflect the heat of any fuck ups away from him.
3: A base packed to the gills with the worst sort of insular, white trash mouth breathers.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 12:10:10 PM »
More fundamentally, he's bombed because he's politically bankrupt and aggressively pursuing the exact policies that lead to the problems they're facing in the first place. He's a media confection, a wisp of nothingness in a smart suit.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 12:11:12 PM »
I'll just bring this over from the Corbyn thread then.

Yeah I’m surprised there’s not a thread on that to be honest.

It's a bit complex (and no one's interested) is probably why.  I'm just waiting to find out that Steve Bannon and his like have been beavering away on FaceCunt to promote it.  The most active gilet jaune I know personally votes for Le Pen.

I hold no brief for Macron but Trump's dandruff-brushing, his comments about MFranceGA.  IMO, not accidental, not at all.  It's a play about making thick patriots and ordinary decent people angry, by insulting them, and then getting them to turn their anger on their own governments for allowing the people and the (Father)land to be humiliated, getting them to [ Vote for Racist Fascists :D ] so's they can all be free and proud again.

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 12:12:43 PM »
I wish I was still in Paris, I'd be out there too.

This was always going to happen under Macron, he came in under a totally fraudulent manifesto and he's tearing up the French system to the disadvantage of the low income population quicker than hubristic Sarkozy or sluggish Hollande did.  Fair play that the French that are ready to stand up for themselves.

There has been some incredible footage of French police and security teams disguising themselves as protesters and committing violent acts.  There are also some very eloquent people who are running rings round the media and government narrative when they are given the chance.  It's obvious that the government not only doesn't have a handle on the protests, it totally misunderstands where the anger is coming from.  How is it possible to have a job and work hard and STILL be out of pocket at the end of the month; a record number of people with proper jobs living in their cars.  It says a lot that many of the protesters are just ordinary people who have had enough and are looking out for their kids or grandkids or those worse off than themselves; it's a very heartening thing to see.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »
I think there is anger but it's about a lot of diverse and often, clashing, things.  Imagining that this is a straightforward honest upswelling of focused political awareness is naive. 

I don't like Macron at all (but I vastly, vastly, prefer him to Le Pen).

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2018, 12:27:10 PM »
fuck yes crank up the tunes: https://youtu.be/09IgKPeWGmA

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 12:31:01 PM »
I don't like Macron at all (but I vastly, vastly, prefer him to Le Pen).

If there was a real progressive candidate in France, lets call him Le Corbyn, the order of preference for the both French and International capital would be Macron > Le Pen > Le Corbyn wouldn't it?

That, I would suggest, is the heart of the problem.

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 12:35:07 PM »
Le Corbyn = Mélenchon

Blinder Data

  • Use your library
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 12:35:53 PM »
Would be very interested in finding out more about the background on this, because based on what I've read it started out as a protest over diesel tax and I'm afraid that's not something I can get behind

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 12:38:28 PM »
I think there is anger but it's about a lot of diverse and often, clashing, things.  Imagining that this is a straightforward honest upswelling of focused political awareness is naive. 

I don't like Macron at all (but I vastly, vastly, prefer him to Le Pen).

Of course, Macron over Le Pen every single time, if that's the choice.  But it's a proper la peste et le cholera choice isn't it.  Even though he's not a racist, you can't be surprised when he turns out to be a horrible shill and people get the hump AND move further towards Le Pen as a result.  I'm not naive, of course it's more complex and wider than that just Macron, his policies and his high handed way of dealing with the public; but it is those that have acted as a catalyst and brought this to a head.

I often think that Melenchon is the answer to all this, but then I have to get a grip on myself.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 12:39:59 PM »
He's not racist in France. Perfectly fine for him to be racist abroad though, with bombs and that.

Fabian Thomsett

  • #FBPE #ABTV #WATON #OFOC #MCC #OBE
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 12:42:06 PM »
Pamela Anderson I shall call you comrade

Quote
I despise violence...but what is the violence of all these people and burned luxurious cars, compared to the structural violence of the French -and global - elites?

https://twitter.com/pamfoundation/with_replies

Fabian Thomsett

  • #FBPE #ABTV #WATON #OFOC #MCC #OBE
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 12:42:35 PM »
Le Corbyn = Mélenchon

Well, minus the burkha ban.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 12:46:08 PM »
I dunno, just the idea that the problems in France have anything to do with Bannon, seems a bit of a reach. Well, a distraction and a reach.
I think we should talk about this in the dedicated thread, so, hope you don't mind, I'm going to copy it over.

Why is it a reach titbo?  How do you think these people were mobilised?  What are their goals?

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 12:50:09 PM »
Pamela Anderson I shall call you comrade

https://twitter.com/pamfoundation/with_replies

And people say she's just a great big set of tits. She's being great on Assange too, actually.

I look forward to the cheap, convenient blame shifting though. Maybe its Bannon's fault, or Putin's facebook ads again. Anything to protect the collapsing neoliberal ideology behind all this.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2018, 12:52:21 PM »
Do you see that, in the complex real world, things really aren't always two-dimensional?  It doesn't always have to be either one thing or another.  Sometimes, things are complex.

Cuellar

  • Push off my wire
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 12:52:36 PM »
I think it's possible to condemn that ideology and also condemn the opportunistic and dangerous exploitation thereof by Bannon et al.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 12:53:42 PM »
I want bigs to say how he thinks these protests were mobilised.

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 12:54:07 PM »
Well, minus the burkha ban.

indeed, fair point

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »
Bannon has made his intentions very clear but there's no reason to think he has those intentions.



I think it's possible to condemn that ideology and also condemn the opportunistic and dangerous exploitation thereof by Bannon et al.

I hardly think that's reasonable.

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 12:56:40 PM »
not another thread that turns into a Biggy vortex nooooo

Cuellar

  • Push off my wire
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 12:59:25 PM »
I can't really get my head around the reasons for these riots though (yes yes inequality neoliberal globalism yadda yadda) - why now? The papers are obviously full of talk of a tax on diesel which will hit rural poor hardest.

Can that be right?

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2018, 01:01:18 PM »
Blaming Bannon is like blaming the flies around some shit, for the shit. Yes, flies buzzing around is annoying, but whats the best way to deal with that? Swat the fly away, only for it to be replaced with another fly? Or get rid of the shit?


We're here because the 40 years of social and economic orthodoxy that has governed Western societies is rapidly collapsing, and those that have benefited most from it - holding all the strings of power as they do, will do anything to prevent any alternative replacing it that doesn't afford them the same inherent privileges and advantage.


The endless array of tawdry blameshifting and bogeymen they keep conjuring up for us to fight over is exactly to do with preventing those alternatives.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2018, 01:12:48 PM »
Edit to add:  I did not blame Bannon as the sole conspiritor - re-read my post.  Nevertheless, I do think that there is someone/thing coordinating this.  And I suspect it's the same group that backed Trump.



Round here virtually every car you see has a gilet in the front window (to signal solidarity).  Obviously, I've talked to everyone I meet about it.  People say, they said originally, it's about putting up the tax on diesel.  The other explanation I've had is that prices are always rising, food, utilities, taxes, rent etc whilst the SMIC (minimum wage), chômage (unemployment benefit) and pensions, do not.  This is true.  But many of the people who are complaining are the people who, by voting Le Pen last time, forced the electorate to elect Macron.  They are people who are not on the SMIC (like me) but are relatively (or much) better-off.

Like I said, the most active gilet jaune I know is a Le Penniste who never (I mean never) pays tax, drives without a licence, resents migrants and is well-off (several houses, foreign holidays, life of leisure).  He's a really nice guy for all that, I mean it.  Morally though, politically, completely appalling, I'm not joking or exaggerating and he's not the only one like that involved. 

I seriously don't think this thing's as straightforward as people like to imagine.

Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2018, 01:16:32 PM »
Le Corbyn = Mélenchon

Who might as well not have existed in UK media coverage, wonder if the same was true in France?

BlodwynPig

  • R.I.P. The Waxwork René
Re: So... Them French Protests, eh?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2018, 01:23:27 PM »