Author Topic: Captain Marvel  (Read 4186 times)

Phil_A

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2019, 01:04:51 PM »
Stilton Larson. Manchego Larson. She's got great range.

It seems like the tosspots are all in a tizz because Larson said some stuff about making the press junkets more inclusive. She never even said anything about changing the films. Also, the trailer has the word 'Her' turn into the word 'Hero'. Now as some form of protest they're all going to see Alita: Battle Angel, presumably because the star of that doesn't make them uncomfortable by voicing her opinions or pointing out that she is, in fact, a woman.

Without having seen it yet (I'm going tomorrow) I find the idea that she's a Mary Sue questionable. The trailer shows her being knocked down, beaten in a sparring match by Jude Law's character and taken prisoner. Plus, Marvel already has another Captain that is a ridiculously perfect human and no one complains about him

Midnight's Edge have been running a series of blatantly dogwhistling videos about the "controversy" and the comments under the videos prompted me to unsub from their channel, because if that's the kind of audience they're aiming to cultivate then I'll get my dubiously sourced Star Trek gossip elsewhere, thanks.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2019, 02:43:13 PM »
Kermodes reviewed it - he is really skirting around the fact he thought it was shit, he even acknowledges that he isn’t really “the audience” - but he clearly doesn’t feel he can just give his honest opinion. Which is wrong, it’s wraaang!!

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2019, 02:46:16 PM »
Just saw it, thought it was fine. Not sure about Brie Larson, to be honest, seemed a bit of a personality void, but Sam Jackson carried the thing pretty well and yer man Mendelsohn was great as the Skrull leader.

The "amnesiac hero slowly remembers their mysterious past and unlocks true power" storyline did seem a bit tired (they could have done a joke with Jackson referencing his part in 'The Long Kiss Goodnight') but there you go. And the cat was very good.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2019, 03:45:24 PM »
we're done with Cap and Iron Man

Had a really bad misreading of that




Butchers Blind

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2019, 04:05:05 PM »
A question to those who have seen this, do I have to watch this before seeing Endgame?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2019, 04:18:06 PM »
No one has seen Endgame. How would they know?

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2019, 04:55:07 PM »
A question to those who have seen this, do I have to watch this before seeing Endgame?

I would say not. All you'll likely need to know is that she has general Superman-type powers and can fire laser bolts out of her fists. And that she made friends with Nick Fury in the 1990s.

Anyway, a big, rambling thing I wrote to a friend; might as well repost here...

- Despite the petulant flailing of Jordan Peterson's phalanx of manchildren, this isn't the end of all that is male. Sadly for girls aged 8-80, it's not brilliant either. It's fine. Mid-tier Marvel along the lines of Ant-Man or Doctor Strange. "Wait for Netflix" stuff. You don't need to see this before Avengers: Endgame, other than to know Captain Marvel (or "Vers") becomes pals with Sam Jackson's Nick Fury and has glowy energy powers.

- Brie Larson is great with what she has, but she doesn't have much. Marvel's adherence to the Strong Female Hero trope (ie. a woman with no personality or character traits beyond those three things) comes across as cowardice considering that two years ago we had imperfect woman heroes who were not diminished by their flaws in both Wonder Woman and Atomic Blonde. Marvel's men get to be interesting. Let the women be interesting too!

- As with Black Panther, progressive politics and the Marvel movie formula make for an uncomfortable fit. Unlike Black Panther, this film's five (!) screenwriters didn't manage to smooth over the cracks. When Vers - tired of being told by her commanding officer to stop being emotional and think with her head and not her heart - hauls off and punches him into a mountain, it's supposed to be a "YOU GO, GIRL!" power moment. Instead, it basically says "Yeah, women are hyper-emotional," which I'm pretty sure is a stereotype we're not supposed to be in favour of.

- There's a bit in which we flash back over all the times that Brie's character gets back up after a fall, and aside from implying that the strength of women is that they put up with a lot of shit (which is a fair point, but again feels a bit regressive after Wonder Woman), it looks like a Super Bowl commercial for a credit card.

- All the cast, not just Brie, are great. It's fun to see Sam Jackson for the first time playing Nick Fury with his arsecheeks unclenched, and he has tremendous chemistry with Brie. But it's Ben Mendelsohn as the leader of the Skrull army that steals the show.

- Wait, no, the cat steals the show. Mendelsohn in second place. Although the business involving a cat scratch at the end makes no fucking sense, and implies that Fury is either an idiot who shrugs off disfiguring injuries so he can enjoy a dinner, or an idiot who doesn't know how to use antiseptic.

- The soundtrack is fantastic, if you like Elastica and Garbage. If you don't then you're beyond hope.

- What Captain Marvel giveth to the ears, it taketh away from the eyes. This film has some of the worst cinematography I've seen in a big-budget movie since... well, probably since that nigh-unwatchable nighttime jungle sequence in Black Panther, come to think of it. Every scene that's not in the California sunlight or under office strip lighting is a smudgy, blurry, hideous mess. Including an otherwise fun brawl set to No Doubt's "I'm Just a Girl".

- Most of the action scenes, however, are forgettable in the extreme. I actually had to consciously go through the film in my head, plot beat by plot beat, the morning after watching it, just to remember them. The action in BP was mostly pretty poorly directed, but at least there were moments that left an impression. No so much here.

- The Stan Lee tribute at the start was more affecting than anything that followed. His cameo in the film proper was clever and will be loved by nerds.

- Mid-credits scene is a little gap-bridger to Avengers: Endgame, but doesn't tell you anything you didn't know (in fact, I suspect, judging by the superior lighting and direction, it's just been nabbed from the film itself, in the same way that the Dr Strange mid-credits sequence came directly from Thor: Ragnarok). End-credits scene can absolutely be skipped, but features more cat.

- Seriously, that cat is awesome.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2019, 04:59:48 PM »
Without having seen it yet (I'm going tomorrow) I find the idea that she's a Mary Sue questionable. The trailer shows her being knocked down, beaten in a sparring match by Jude Law's character and taken prisoner. Plus, Marvel already has another Captain that is a ridiculously perfect human and no one complains about him

I'm quite happy to point out when a character is a Mary Sue (stand up The Force Awakens and Star Trek: Discovery!) but it absolutely does not apply here. She is, however, something of a cypher and a bit of a generic Strong Female Hero, without any of the interesting quirks or flaws that the heroines of Wonder Woman or Atomic Blonde showed. That's partly because the writers were hamstrung by the plot, but it still feels very unambitious, even cowardly.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2019, 05:03:05 PM »
The eye scratch is alien, implied by the Skrull to be some horrendous space infection. Not sure a bit of antiseptic cream was saving the eye.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2019, 05:32:13 PM »
The eye scratch is alien, implied by the Skrull to be some horrendous space infection. Not sure a bit of antiseptic cream was saving the eye.

So why isn't he fucking running to hospital or a decontamination facility at the end, rather than sitting around having dinner and chortling?

It's inane.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2019, 06:48:18 PM »
When Vers - tired of being told by her commanding officer to stop being emotional and think with her head and not her heart - hauls off and punches him into a mountain, it's supposed to be a "YOU GO, GIRL!" power moment. Instead, it basically says "Yeah, women are hyper-emotional," which I'm pretty sure is a stereotype we're not supposed to be in favour of.
I didn't have that response at all, more just a character thinking "ah, fuck your shite" to somebody they have found out has been lying to them for years. I'd have expected a male character to respond in exactly the same way.

Same as with the flashback to Danvers' previous mishaps inspiring her to fuck off the shackles. I didn't find it that different from when Quill is inspired by the memory of his mother - just a character remembering their past to inspire them in the moment.

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2019, 07:28:42 PM »
I didn't have that response at all, more just a character thinking "ah, fuck your shite" to somebody they have found out has been lying to them for years. I'd have expected a male character to respond in exactly the same way.

Same as with the flashback to Danvers' previous mishaps inspiring her to fuck off the shackles. I didn't find it that different from when Quill is inspired by the memory of his mother - just a character remembering their past to inspire them in the moment.

That's how I felt too, and really enjoyed the moment. As a whole I quite enjoyed it, it's not a film I loved or will ever watch again (which applies to 99% of films though, it's rare I rewatch stuff unless a couple of decades have passed) but I thought Larson was fantastic in the lead role, Jackson very strong too, and I didn't want to punch Jude Law in the face so that's something of a first. I thought it could have benefited from at least one more big set piece, preferably in the middle of the film, but otherwise I've no complaints and as Mister Six mentions, the cat is superb and deserves his own spin off. 7.6/10

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2019, 07:29:19 PM »
So why isn't he fucking running to hospital or a decontamination facility at the end, rather than sitting around having dinner and chortling?

It's inane.

Because he didn't know it would pop his eye out; he says "it's just a cat scratch" or something and it's only the Skrull who's concerned about it.

Any serious iteration of him losing the eye, in a serious fight scene or whatever, would have been expected and cringey. I don't give a toss.

At least this way it's a joke, and it's relateable (coincidentally I almost lost my eye to my own ginger cat a few weeks ago and have a big scar beneath it now; I should have gone to the hospital to check for cat scratch disease but thought "fuck it, probably fine" and took my chances). If Fury had been tortured or something the moment would have been forgotten almost instantly.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2019, 11:16:20 PM »
Pretty standard fare. Good fun, but not one for the ages.

There certainly isn't anything for the man babies to whinge about. The only time the Captain's gender is particularly acknowledged is when a fight scene is set to Just a Girl by No Doubt.
Speaking of which, why was there so much music? It wasn't woven into the story like in Guardians of the Galaxy. I get the feeling the film makers thought they had to include it because it's a period piece.

Carol's lack of a strong personality is the main problem. As noted, Larson makes the best of what she's given, but I just didn't feel like I knew who she was meant to be. It'll be interesting to see how she works with the other heroes in Endgame.

I didn't have that response at all, more just a character thinking "ah, fuck your shite" to somebody they have found out has been lying to them for years. I'd have expected a male character to respond in exactly the same way.
Yeah, he was trying to goad her into getting emotional and taking him on in fisticuffs, but she wasn't having it. Funnily enough, Captain America did fall for that ploy when he fought the French bloke in Winter Soldier.

DukeDeMondo

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2019, 12:19:22 AM »
I really didn't know what to expect from this at all, but my partner and I went to see it last night anyway. See what it's all about, so. This Captain Marvel.

I’ve only ever managed to catch maybe every 3rd or 4th of these MCU numbers, and I haven’t always managed to catch the ones worth catching. As a result, I’m not hugely invested in it. I don’t have much of a grip on a great many of these arcs developing independently and concurrently across a plethora of properties only to converge without warning three years later in some other sort of context altogether. I don’t always know who the fuck anyone is or if I do I don’t know what changes they’ve undergone since I last saw them eight or nine years ago, maybe. I don’t why the people around me are bouncing in their seats because this one’s hand is held in a certain position for a moment or that one’s eye has turned a particular colour and back again, I don’t know that it’s all related to something that went on during the post credits scene at the end of Thor: Borley Rectory or the bit in the second act of Iron Man: Thumps For Days where he puts on a song he wants to hear on Spotify but then it’s not the song he thought it was. As a result, a lot of the more lauded pictures – Infinity War and things like this especially – have felt like a bit of a fucking drag for me at times, to be honest, Sat there for two and a half hours absolutely bewildered. Stuff going so far up over my head as to be smacking me on the soles of my feet.

(I do think it’s a properly, massively fucking impressive achievement, by the by, the MCU. I haven’t been on board for most of the ride, but I’m sure the folks who have have had a fucking blast. I've been lost more times than enough, but complaining about not knowing what’s going on during the fifteenth or sixteenth film in a series I haven't been paying much attention to, one with this much complexity at its core and this much communication and interplay between instalments and this much of a commitment to the patient development of an intricate mythos across multiple narrative strands threaded through several ostensibly “standalone” pictures, most of fairly high standard… whatever the motivation, that’s fucking impressive, and me fuming all “Infinity War is a load of fucking shit because it didn’t make any fucking sense and I didn’t know who anyone was or why they were there” is a bit like tuning in cold to last night's Eastenders and complaining that they didn’t even tell you what the fuck the Thames was or why Martin spent the whole time looking all funny at Kush or who the fuck Kush even is. I know this.)

But, so, went to see it anyway, this Captain Marvel.

Would I know what the hell was going on or would I wouldn’t? This is what I was thinking, going in. Would the craic be ninety or ninety below? Was I in for a Ragnarok or a Dark World? In the end, I was in for a Ragnarok alright. Pair of us thoroughly enjoyed it. Definitely had more fun with it than I’ve had with any of the Marvel films since maybe the first Avengers picture. Spectacular stuff. It helped that it was a prequel, so it didn’t matter that I still didn’t know a lot of the stuff that I could have done with knowing going into Infinity War, and helped even more than it was funny and witty and warm and full of enough 1990s nostalgia porn to keep me thoroughly entertained for the duration. And that Brie Larson is just fucking awesome, kicking shit to bits and blasting things to pieces and glowing her eyes all Vestron Video and punching Jude Law through mini-mountains and this sort of stuff. Reminded me a bit of the recent Bumblebee, actually, in tone. And also Critters 2, a bit, for different reasons. And it has the distinction of being the first film in maybe fifteen or twenty years to have a really funny joke to do with Kevin Smith in. Well, "really funny" is pushing it a bit, but I laughed, and it was quite touching.

I do wonder if this and Jonah Hill’s Mid90s represent some sort of Wedding Singer sort of moment, far as 1990s nostalgia goes. Peak of something that started with, I dunno, Waaves and things like this and continues in the work of your Soccer Mommys or whoever. In a weird sort of way The Wedding Singer kind of led to 808s & Heartbreak. Who knows what Captain Marvel will lead to? Whatever it's leading to, it seems like Grimes might be halfway there already, for better or worse.

Also, is this first time Nirvana and Hole have both featured prominently on the soundtrack to a big Hollywood movie picture?

And that Nine Inch Nails shirt must have been fucking humming by the end. Absolutely minging. Unless she just had a whole wardrobe full of them after the fashion of your Brundlefly or whatever.

Anyway, I enjoyed it a lot. Lot more than I expected to. Good fun, so.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2019, 12:29:43 AM »
I didn't have that response at all, more just a character thinking "ah, fuck your shite" to somebody they have found out has been lying to them for years. I'd have expected a male character to respond in exactly the same way.

Same as with the flashback to Danvers' previous mishaps inspiring her to fuck off the shackles. I didn't find it that different from when Quill is inspired by the memory of his mother - just a character remembering their past to inspire them in the moment.

This is a film in which the climactic battle is fought to the tune of "Just a Girl" by No Doubt. You may not have picked up on it, but the condescending boss telling his female employee not to be so emotional absolutely is part of the subtext.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2019, 12:44:40 AM »
But she wasn't being emotional. If anything, he was the one getting angry, since he knew he didn't stand a chance against her. She just calmly shuts him down.

There's an obvious subtext of her being held back by society, but I'm not sure the film is saying wild mood swings are the answer. She gets rid of the literal chip on her shoulder (neck) and realises that she doesn't have to live by someone else's rules.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2019, 01:05:27 AM »
Because he didn't know it would pop his eye out; he says "it's just a cat scratch" or something and it's only the Skrull who's concerned about it.

Why doesn't the Skrull tell his new human mate of the danger? Why doesn't Fury pick up on his grimace?

I'd have no problem with this if Fury had left as soon as he could to have his wound tended to, but the script as written (or, rather, rewritten) doesn't make sense. It's a shit bit of plotting, made worse because it's now tied to the defining physical trait of one of the series' most prominent characters. So every time Fury pops up with his cool eyepatch, there's a reminder that this man - when it comes to animals at least - is a dunce.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 01:16:40 AM by Mister Six »

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2019, 01:14:23 AM »
But she wasn't being emotional. If anything, he was the one getting angry, since he knew he didn't stand a chance against her. She just calmly shuts him down.

He's not angry, though, he's visibly delighted that she appears to have listened to his advice and mastered her negative emotions. He thinks he's already won in that regard and now he wants to win again by fighting her. And, as noted above, she's tired of this shit and wallops him into a wall.

If it doesn't make much sense, that's because this thing has gone through five screenwriters (at least; maybe more uncredited), producers' notes, two directors and an editor. That it hangs together as well as it does is a small miracle, but it does lead to stuff like this.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2019, 01:28:22 AM »
I think he was just playing mind games with her, trying to make her constantly question herself. He was basically negging her throughout their relationship. He was getting noticeably fraught right before she blasted him.
Why doesn't the Skrull tell his new human mate of the danger? Why doesn't Fury pick up on his grimace?

I'd have no problem with this if Fury had left as soon as he could to have his wound tended to, but the script as written (or, rather, rewritten) doesn't make sense. It's a shit bit of plotting, made worse because it's now tied to the defining physical trait of one of the series' most prominent characters. So every time Fury pops up with his cool eyepatch, there's a reminder that this man - when it comes to animals at least - is a dunce.
I was rather flippant. In one of the earlier films, he says something like,  "Last time I trusted someone, it cost me an eye."This implies that his injury was a big, dramatic, formative experience, that significantly affected his character. It turns out it was just a silly gag with a space cat.

Are all cats space cats?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 01:39:23 AM by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth »

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2019, 01:46:23 AM »
Yeah - I like the gag just fine, I hate the hoops of illogic that Fury has to jump through to make it stick.

I assumed the space cat belonged to Mar-vell when she was working on the faster-than-light engine, and stuck around after she died, occasionally wandering out to the desert to eat armadillos or cougars or whatever.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2019, 02:14:44 AM »
they could have done a joke with Jackson referencing his part in 'The Long Kiss Goodnight'
He could have used Frank and Ernest as aliases.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2019, 08:33:54 AM »
I don’t think the man babies as you put it are complaining that the film is about a woman super hero are they? If so why was there none of this when Wonder Woman came out?

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2019, 10:45:52 AM »
I don’t think the man babies as you put it are complaining that the film is about a woman super hero are they? If so why was there none of this when Wonder Woman came out?

I mean, there was. Especially over some Women Only showings in certain theatres.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2019, 12:09:08 PM »
God yes, loads of whining by intellectual midgets who are so insecure that fucking superhero movies starring women are viewed as an attack on their identity..

Phil_A

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2019, 12:39:19 PM »
Women superheroes films apparently are fine as long as they don't "push an SJW agenda" or mention anything about female empowerment or criticise male attitudes or present women characters as being in any way idealised. Just don't do any of those and you'll be fine with these lads.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2019, 01:06:41 PM »
Women superheroes films apparently are fine as long as they don't "push an SJW agenda" or mention anything about female empowerment or criticise male attitudes or present women characters as being in any way idealised. Just don't do any of those and you'll be fine with these lads.

They are also fine if Batman vs. Superman has bombed and you're relying on one to have any hope of any more DC movies in the near future. Because as much as you hate women, you hate Marvel Comics even more.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2019, 02:01:47 PM »
Women superheroes films apparently are fine as long as they don't "push an SJW agenda" or mention anything about female empowerment or criticise male attitudes or present women characters as being in any way idealised. Just don't do any of those and you'll be fine with these lads.

I think you can present them as idealised so long as it means they slink about in tight clothes and have big tits and the camera lingers on their arse. Bonus points if they lez off with another sexy empowered female.

If it means presenting them as rounded human characters and you don't even get a proper look at their arse or they have a flappy skirt that covers it or something, however, then it's the destruction of modern civilisation and must be stopped at all costs (ie.by threatening people over Twitter).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 02:56:29 PM by Mister Six »

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2019, 02:25:40 PM »
I've also seen the man babies (for that is what they are) calling John Boyega's role in Star Wars 'SJW propaganda', despite the fact that his race is entirely incidental to the character. Speaking of which, they seem to have no problem with Princess Leia talking down to blokes, but despise any other woman doing so. They are silly.

Anyway, back to Captain Marvel. I must confess I didn't see the twist coming. Or, rather, I expected betrayal from the Kree (since they'd previously been established as a bunch of tossers and Jude Law has an English accent) but I wasn't expecting the skrull, much less one played by Ben Mendelsohn, to be goodies. Canny bit of casting, that.

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2019, 02:58:05 PM »
A sign of how progressive Hollywood now is: an English accent now signifies trustworthiness, not villainy.