Author Topic: Captain Marvel  (Read 6681 times)

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2019, 05:55:08 PM »
This is a film in which the climactic battle is fought to the tune of "Just a Girl" by No Doubt. You may not have picked up on it, but the condescending boss telling his female employee not to be so emotional absolutely is part of the subtext.
The use of "Just a Girl" felt a bit shoehorned in to me. My take after watching the whole film was that Yon-Rogg is always telling "Vers" to keep her emotions in check is because he knows full well what she has within her: she absorbed the power of the one of the most powerful objects in the galaxy!

By the end, he's the one reduced to being overemotional (he's obviously terrified at being send back 'empty handed') and the speech he gives before being blasted into the rockface is a last-ditch attempt to get her off-guard. After all, at this point she's just smashed through his whole team and blasted a huge spaceship to bits.

I understand people taking a feminist view of the film, but for me, you could have had a male character and 95% of the film would have been exactly the same, as clearly Vers has not been held back in Star Force by her gender - she's not even the only woman on the team. It's only the bits about her treatment in the Air Force ("it's called a cockpit for a reason", not being able to fly combat missions) that give it the slant that I think the filmmakers were trying (desperately?) to make.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2019, 06:06:33 PM »
Yarp. It's her confidence he's undermining, not her fabulous female fury. Her triumph didn't come from viewing her femininity as the source of her strength, it came from not viewing it as a weakness.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2019, 06:12:02 PM »
And the whole angle of her having the piss taken out of her in a military setting is reminiscent of Captain America 1. There's already been the male equivalent of the exact same story.

Also, the idea of being "powered up" by strong emotions is a well-worn trope in the action / adventure genre: in Marvel alone I can think of Thor: Ragnarok and Spider-Man: Homecoming off the top of my head. Other obvious and popular examples are the hundreds of times it happens to male characters in Dragonball Z. It speaks to the idea of coming through the other side of trauma as a stronger person; yet I've seen people trying to argue that the message is women should be allowed to be emotional rather than logical, or some nonsense. In the case of Thor: Ragnarok you could look at that film and say it's about a mad manipulative woman who gets ideas above her station and destroys the home and the family when she's placed in charge, but you'd have to be actively looking for that and bringing your preconceptions about the film's motives to make that argument. In CM's case the motivation appears to be the "social Marxism" Peterson special.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2019, 08:06:20 PM »
Watched last night and thought it was mid-Marvel fare.  Brie Larson came across as a bit of a personality vacuum; all her lines seem to to fall flat and was an emotional blank space.  If it wasn't for SLJ and Mendelsohn it could have easily dropped further into IM2 Marvel rankings. The action/fight scenes were overly edited and the script felt like a mash up of other Marvel tropes that have already been seen.

Nice Stan Lee cameo.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2019, 08:11:08 PM »
Just saw it, thought it was fine. Not sure about Brie Larson, to be honest, seemed a bit of a personality void, but Sam Jackson carried the thing pretty well and yer man Mendelsohn was great as the Skrull leader.

Watched last night and thought it was mid-Marvel fare.  Brie Larson came across as a bit of a personality vacuum; all her lines seem to to fall flat and was an emotional blank space.  If it wasn't for SLJ and Mendelsohn it could have easily dropped further into IM2 Marvel rankings

Are you that evil clone of mine that people have been spotting around South Manchester?

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2019, 08:23:23 PM »
Are you that evil clone of mine that people have been spotting around South Manchester?

Skrulls get everywhere.

Trying to think who would have been better cast in the lead role.  Marvel went with a safe pair of hands in Oscar winner Brie.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2019, 08:28:52 PM »
Trying to think who would have been better cast in the lead role.  Marvel went with a safe pair of hands in Oscar winner Brie.
It's a fair point and I don't have an answer, though I'm not too up on the hip young talents in the word of acting these days.

I will say that the smile she gave Stan Lee did come across as full of warmth (though they probably weren't in the same room when it was filmed) and it was one of my favourite moments in the film.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2019, 08:34:51 PM »
Charlize Theron would seem like an obvious choice.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2019, 08:47:57 PM »
Trying to think who would have been better cast in the lead role.  Marvel went with a safe pair of hands in Oscar winner Brie.

tbf she was good as Ollie in The Thick of It.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2019, 10:22:49 PM »
I understand people taking a feminist view of the film, but for me, you could have had a male character and 95% of the film would have been exactly the same, as clearly Vers has not been held back in Star Force by her gender - she's not even the only woman on the team.

Yeah, it's this thing called "metaphor".

And the whole angle of her having the piss taken out of her in a military setting is reminiscent of Captain America 1. There's already been the male equivalent of the exact same story.

Yes  In that film he's spurned because he's a weakling. In this film she's spurned because she's a woman. Remember that the only reason she volunteers to fly the experimental aircraft is because the US Air Force wouldn't let women fly combat missions.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2019, 10:33:00 PM »
Yeah, it's this thing called "metaphor".
You seem to see it as important in the context of the film (and whatever wider meaning), I discarded it as an irrelevant bit of fluff. Such is film criticism, I guess.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2019, 11:43:15 PM »
In this film she's spurned because she's a woman. Remember that the only reason she volunteers to fly the experimental aircraft is because the US Air Force wouldn't let women fly combat missions.
That's a point: The film has a promotional thing for the US Air Force, but the portrayal doesn't seem all that flattering. "Women! Join the Air Force. You'll be routinely ridiculed and not allowed to go on any missions."

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2019, 02:53:39 AM »
Not enough Lego in this

Mister Six

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2019, 12:53:41 PM »
You seem to see it as important in the context of the film (and whatever wider meaning), I discarded it as an irrelevant bit of fluff. Such is film criticism, I guess.

Sorry, I was too sarcastic there.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2019, 01:54:25 PM »
He's not angry, though, he's visibly delighted that she appears to have listened to his advice and mastered her negative emotions. He thinks he's already won in that regard and now he wants to win again by fighting her. And, as noted above, she's tired of this shit and wallops him into a wall.

I didn't get that. I thought he was giddily desperate, knew she could flatten him, and so tried one last pathetic attempt to control her with the bullshit he was using on her before. But more than anything, the scene was Indiana Jones vs the swordsman. That let it down for me because I could see it coming, but it got a good laugh from the audience (especially kids).

I liked the film, but I found Samuel L Jackson really creepy and distracting. They seemed to have squashed his head.


Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2019, 11:25:58 PM »
Well. Here's the RLM lads weighing in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQNYeOEFJc

six minutes of bigging up how wonderful Milwaukee is, which you shouldn't skip, because it's hilarious. Just pretend it's Nuneaton or something. Then the rest is a measured takedown of neckbeard/woke takes of a competent corporate product.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2019, 11:40:24 PM »
Then the rest is a measured takedown of neckbeard/woke takes of a competent corporate product.

I watched this earlier, and it fucking isn't. It's tone deaf and hypocritical in the extreme, and they very strongly embody what they're complaining about Larson arguing against. I like them a lot generally, and whilst they've skirted dickhead opinions on this sort of thing before, they took a swan dive into it here.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2019, 11:55:26 PM »
I was mildly dreading their review, based on previous times they've ham-fistedly tackled these kind of issues. I didn't think they came across that badly this time though. Jay at least broadly agreed with Larson's statements about critic diversity, didn't he?

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2019, 12:21:33 AM »
[EDIT: Actually, delete that. It'll annoy me if I lead this thread off-piste into irritating extratextual arguments.]

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2019, 12:21:59 AM »
I liked the film.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2019, 03:20:29 AM »
Ok so skimming the thread, I should wait for this one to crop up on Netflix yeah?

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2019, 08:30:31 AM »
It won't be on Netflix, nor will any future Marvel movies. Disney have their own streaming service now, which means no soup for the rest of us.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2019, 12:10:17 PM »
Now that I think about it, didn't they talk up the connectedness between CM's powers and Ant-Man's subatomic travel in old interviews?  I guess something along those lines could show up in Endgame, or it could've just been bollocks.  Or an earlier draft.

I enjoyed this one, although like I've said with some other Marvel movies, it kind of went in one ear and out the other.  I found Larson charming enough, and I liked the supporting cast.  The soundtrack laid it on a bit thick, but I admit I enjoyed most of it; 'Just a Girl' was a bit on the nose though.

I was surprised that they didn't make the Skrulls as a bloc a bit more villainous -- I liked that Ben Mendelsohn's Skrull was genuine and not double-crossing them, but the war between Kree and Skrulls felt a bit one-sided.  Skrull sleeper agents are a major source of potential plot in the Marvel universe, and you lose that a bit if the species is busy fleeing the galaxy.  I guess when it comes to galactic warfare I've been spoiled by BKV's Saga, where no side are angels.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2019, 12:52:41 PM »
Well (I think there's some megaspoils already upthread, so I'll skip the spoiler text), in one little bit they did say they all had blood on their hands, so they're not painting all Skrull as purely innocent. I really liked that moment, incidentally, with Marvel showing turmoil for having murdered Talos's crew. It's ultimately brushed off fairly quickly, but a lesser film would have just avoided addressing it at all.

Not being a comic reader, I'm glad there's not going to be a lot of "actually, Iron Man's was a Skrull!" nonsense. The Hydra twist was incredible, but it'd be worse with shapeshifters. Although in the Empire spoiler podcast, they do note that there's possibly still a Skrull on Earth (four arrived on the beach, one killed early, one shot in the house, one leaves with Marvel...).

Here's a question: why do you reckon this was set in the 90s? Before it came out, everyone was speculating that it was setting up time travel to resolve Infinity War, but that hasn't happened (at least not explicitly in this film). It added some fun setting stuff, some distracting creepy de-aging effects, and made me spend the latter half of the film wondering who the little girl would grow up to be, but all that aside.

Also: don't the Kree have faster than light travel already? Isn't that what the jump-gate thing they use is?

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2019, 01:13:58 PM »
Here's a question: why do you reckon this was set in the 90s? Before it came out, everyone was speculating that it was setting up time travel to resolve Infinity War, but that hasn't happened (at least not explicitly in this film). It added some fun setting stuff, some distracting creepy de-aging effects, and made me spend the latter half of the film wondering who the little girl would grow up to be, but all that aside.

I think it's just to explain why Captain Marvel wasn't in any of the other Avengers movies, as she's so super powerful she could have probably dealt with Ultron and the other villains pretty easily and it'd seem weird if she chose to sit such battles out.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2019, 01:23:33 PM »
I think it's just to explain why Captain Marvel wasn't in any of the other Avengers movies, as she's so super powerful she could have probably dealt with Ultron and the other villains pretty easily and it'd seem weird if she chose to sit such battles out.

That problem's only introduced by setting this movie in the 90s, though. And it isn't quite resolved. Yes, she's off-world, but why didn't Fury page her when Loki had the Tesseract and was invading New York with aliens?

If she becomes Captain Marvel today, after those events, it's not an issue.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2019, 01:31:14 PM »
Also: don't the Kree have faster than light travel already? Isn't that what the jump-gate thing they use is?

Er, to make up something completely, perhaps the jump gates need to be built at specific locations (the fit blue Kree lass said she'd been to Earth before, so it would make sense) to be used. Or possibly they have a limited range - Marvel was supposed to be taking the Skrulls out of the galaxy, where even the Kree can't get to them.

Here's a question: why do you reckon this was set in the 90s? Before it came out, everyone was speculating that it was setting up time travel to resolve Infinity War, but that hasn't happened (at least not explicitly in this film). It added some fun setting stuff, some distracting creepy de-aging effects, and made me spend the latter half of the film wondering who the little girl would grow up to be, but all that aside.

The little girl is Maria Rambeau, who in the comic has light-based powers and has been one of the captains Marvel, as well as using the codenames Pulsar, Photon (also her mum's Air Force callsign in the film) and Spectrum.

It also gives me hope for a Nextwave film, ideally from the team behind Spiderverse...



As for why... I'm guessing it's because every new Marvel franchise since phase two has had some kind of gimmick to make it stand out from the general Marvel scrum (Ant-Man has the heist angle, Dr Strange the psychedelic visuals and Black Panther the black identity politics thing) and they didn't think having a female-led film was enough, especially after Ant-Man and The Wasp co-headlined a woman.

But the 90s angle gives it a bit of visual distinction and allows it to do some 90s jokes and that helps distinguish it more.

Plus, it allows them to quickly bring in a black female superhero - see above - without too much effort. "Look how you've grown" ZAP "Blimey, you have superpowers now!" (Audience gives Wakanda Forever salute.)

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2019, 01:37:10 PM »
That problem's only introduced by setting this movie in the 90s, though. And it isn't quite resolved. Yes, she's off-world, but why didn't Fury page her when Loki had the Tesseract and was invading New York with aliens?

If she becomes Captain Marvel today, after those events, it's not an issue.

That's a very good point, I hadn't thought of that, so I guess it's what Mister Six said above. Though concerning why Fury hadn't paged her, Kevin Fiege addressed that a couple of days ago suggesting that he might have done so, but she was too busy to respond.

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »
That problem's only introduced by setting this movie in the 90s, though. And it isn't quite resolved. Yes, she's off-world, but why didn't Fury page her when Loki had the Tesseract and was invading New York with aliens?

Because he had the Avengers. She's a last resort. In Infinity War all of the Avengers are AWOL in Wakanda save Hawkeye, who's just some cunt with a bow and arrow. When a clearly planet-threatening even like the dusting occurs, he realises that the Avengers have failed and calls her in to sort it out.

Or what Marvel exec Kevin Feige said.

Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2019, 01:43:51 PM »
Er, to make up something completely, perhaps the jump gates need to be built at specific locations (the fit blue Kree lass said she'd been to Earth before, so it would make sense) to be used. Or possibly they have a limited range - Marvel was supposed to be taking the Skrulls out of the galaxy, where even the Kree can't get to them.

That works. Although weren't the same things used in Guardians 2, to get them well across the universe? I suppose you can say its less easy to track someone who avoids them or something.

The little girl is Maria Rambeau, who in the comic has light-based powers and has been one of the captains Marvel, as well as using the codenames Pulsar, Photon (also her mum's Air Force callsign in the film) and Spectrum.

...

Plus, it allows them to quickly bring in a black female superhero - see above - without too much effort. "Look how you've grown" ZAP "Blimey, you have superpowers now!" (Audience gives Wakanda Forever salute.)

Aha, that's interesting, thanks. I agree that it gives it a formal quirk, but there must be plot and future set up stuff in there too, like this sort of thing. I was wondering about it allowing some Guardians backstory stuff too.