Avengers: Endgame

[The Culture Bunker]

edit: oops, double post new page shit

[mothman]

I never quite understood how in "Days of Future Past", Professor X is clearly still in a sturdy state of mental health but in Logan (when he surely must be the same age), he's a complete wreck. Ditto Wolverine with his healing power gone to cock.

But I digress. Another thing that makes me think X-Men is best kept separate from the MCU is that there's so bloody many of them (even moreso if you chuck in the Brotherhood of Mutants) - any film with all that lot in is going to cost a bomb just for the cast and catering.

DoFP is a different timeline now; and he's had to deal with all sorts of stuff in Apocalypse, and in Dark Phoenix, that might have brought on a decline that the original timeline didn't.

[The Culture Bunker]

DoFP is a different timeline now; and he's had to deal with all sorts of stuff in Apocalypse, and in Dark Phoenix, that might have brought on a decline that the original timeline didn't.

I see your point, but the original timeline was hardly all peace and love, was it? He had his body blown to fuck by one of his students and then had to wage a guerrilla war against a bunch of giant machines. And presumably he's had less of the angst of having to go up against his best friend on a constant basis.

I am aware I am applying far too much vaguely logical thought to this.

[mothman]

Me too. I'm just assuming that there's a lot of even more crap stuff he had to go through in the revised timeline, which blighted the years that would have otherwise been his prime ones, leaving him with a lot less hale an old age. I've always assumed that prior to the events of the first film, he'd had a relatively quiet life, with nothing analogous to Apocalypse (for example). The "flashback" in TLS where he and Magneto first meet Jean Grey suggests that their philosophical differences remained just that, a difference of opinion without open conflict.

[The Culture Bunker]

Me too. I'm just assuming that there's a lot of even more crap stuff he had to go through in the revised timeline, which blighted the years that would have otherwise been his prime ones, leaving him with a lot less hale an old age. I've always assumed that prior to the events of the first film, he'd had a relatively quiet life, with nothing analogous to Apocalypse (for example). The "flashback" in TLS where he and Magneto first meet Jean Grey suggests that their philosophical differences remained just that, a difference of opinion without open conflict.

Ehh, still not sure that's bad as the trauma of being killed by psychic power and having to transfer your noggin into another body. And in either case, still doesn't explain the contrast of the state of Wolverine between Logan/DoFP.

That was my main problem with Logan, actually. It should have been set long after all the X-Men had died of natural causes, with Mutants becoming extinct afterwards, but as Sir Patrick was clearly up for another spin, they went down the commercially obvious route.

[mjwilson]

Nah,  they were right to go for the Logan story regardless of continuity.  Maybe I would say otherwise if the other films had fit together seamlessly,  but since it's just a bunch of barely connected stories, might as well just go for the best story for Logan.

[mothman]

Oh! I totally forgot the body transfer. That's the problem with The Last Stand, you want to try to forget it as much as possible.

And it totally explains why he's so hale & hearty in future DoFP. That's his second body. Much less mileage. The events of TLS don't happen in the new timeline, so JG/DP didn't vaporise him. So in Logan he's still in his original body. Case closed, I reckon.

[Kelvin]

Ehh, still not sure that's bad as the trauma of being killed by psychic power and having to transfer your noggin into another body. And in either case, still doesn't explain the contrast of the state of Wolverine between Logan/DoFP.

That was my main problem with Logan, actually. It should have been set long after all the X-Men had died of natural causes, with Mutants becoming extinct afterwards, but as Sir Patrick was clearly up for another spin, they went down the commercially obvious route.

No way. The logan/professor relationship runs through all the films, and it makes perfect sense that their final stories are together.

[The Culture Bunker]

Oh! I totally forgot the body transfer. That's the problem with The Last Stand, you want to try to forget it as much as possible.

And it totally explains why he's so hale & hearty in future DoFP. That's his second body. Much less mileage. The events of TLS don't happen in the new timeline, so JG/DP didn't vaporise him. So in Logan he's still in his original body. Case closed, I reckon.

Well, I'm afraid I have to argue you the toss with you just a tad more - it's a mental illness that is knackering old Charles in Logan. He's surely had an easier time of it, mentally, in the "Logan" timeline but... I think we have to accept our back-and-forth conversation shows more thought than is probably warranted.

No way. The logan/professor relationship runs through all the films, and it makes perfect sense that their final stories are together.

I get the point, but I think I (just a personal point of view) would have enjoyed Logan a lot more if it had been set in, say, a 2100 where the X-Men are beyond the memory of most people, mutants have just somehow ceased to continue to be born and our hero is utterly alone with his only real family long gone. I'd imagine if Stewart hadn't been on board, it might have gone down those lines. To just have a "oh, and all the mutants died anyways" angle certainly makes the angle of any future X-Men films a bit bleak.

[surreal]

To just have a "oh, and all the mutants died anyways" angle certainly makes the angle of any future X-Men films a bit bleak.

Maybe I misunderstood some of the film but wasn't the point hinted at that Logan killed them all after being affected by one of Xavier's "mind quake" things (or maybe another mutant)? 

[samadriel]

Maybe I misunderstood some of the film but wasn't the point hinted at that Logan killed them all after being affected by one of Xavier's "mind quake" things (or maybe another mutant)? 

I thought it was that Xavier killed them all with one of the aforementioned psychic freak-outs.

[surreal]

I thought it was that Xavier killed them all with one of the aforementioned psychic freak-outs.

Maybe, I might be adding some of the comics lore into it

[Glebe]

Not a spoiler presumably because its in the trailer but if you check the timestamp on the footage of Lang showing up it says 1983.

Nah, don't think so...

[Kelvin]

I thought it was that Xavier killed them all with one of the aforementioned psychic freak-outs.

It was this. There's a news report where they mention Prof X killing most of the X-Men and many students by accident.

The film is sort of in its own continuity according to the director, so don't worry too much about what that means for other xmen films.

[Mister Six]

Blade paved the way I think. It's a top film.

Yeah it's fantastic but AFAIK it didn't factor into the creation of the X-Men film, which was commissioned off the back of the popularity of the 90s animated series. Most people don't think of Blade as a comic book movie, much less a superhero one, and it was really the popularity of the X-Men film (and a couple of years later Raimi's Spider-Man) that showed Hollywood the genre had legs.

[Mango Chimes]

On the Doctor Who thread spoiler controversy – this Avengers: Endgame thread isn't half fucking up one of the reveals of entirely-unrelated-film Logan for anyone who's not seen it. Come on – it's a big emotional scene and everything.

[olliebean]

I miss when you could discuss a film without having to get into discussions of half a dozen other films that frankly you'd sooner just have enjoyed for the silly fun blockbuster superhero nonsense they were and not have to still be thinking about years later.

[mothman]

You don't HAVE to get into discussions about it.

[samadriel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Lcgbr78WA  Superbowl spot.

[bgmnts]

So this is going to be a time travek film with Downey Jr going back in time to stop Thanos right?
Its the onky thing that would explain Strange's "it was the onky way" line.

[samadriel]

Yep.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

What keads you to think that? If one of the characters has access to the infinity gauntlet (where the time gem now sits) they could simply wish all the dusty people back to life, rather than go through some convoluted time travel caper.

[The Culture Bunker]

What keads you to think that? If one of the characters has access to the infinity gauntlet (where the time gem now sits) they could simply wish all the dusty people back to life, rather than go through some convoluted time travel caper.

Maybe someone gets hold of it and clicks to wipe Thanos out of existence so that the whole series of events going back to the first Avengers film never happened.

I guess for the gauntlet to fit, it might have to be Hulk, heh.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Maybe they need Stark to make a big robot hand that fits the gauntlet.

[The Culture Bunker]

Makes more sense, of course, but I just amused myself with the idea of the big green lad roaring "HULK CLICK!"

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Of course there's a massive plot hole in the whole thing, which is that it's impossible to click your fingers properly with gloves on.

[Cuellar]

And, if you can literally change reality to be whatever you want, why not create twice the amount of resources rather than killing half the people.

[lipsink]

Is Thanos bored yet? I reckon he's checked his phone at least twice by now.

[The Culture Bunker]

And, if you can literally change reality to be whatever you want, why not create twice the amount of resources rather than killing half the people.

I guess if you wipe out half the universe, the resulting chaos will ensure resource consumption is in the gutter for a few hundred years at least. Plus, less evil lolz factor to do it your way - Thanos is supposed to be a bit crackers and all that.

[Cuellar]

Well I just don't think he's thought it through, crackers or not.