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March 28, 2024, 10:23:50 PM

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Avengers: Endgame

Started by Phil_A, December 07, 2018, 01:44:12 PM

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The Culture Bunker

I guess the main thing we take from it is that (apparently, as noted Marvel have form for fucking us about) Stark and Nebula somehow get back to Earth. Best guess is that Captain Marvel dragged them along somehow on her route to answering the pager?

VelourSpirit

You could make a whole film just about a group of people trying to come to grips with the reality of the talking raccoon that's come from space. But in this, it's just one component. That's what makes this film good.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: TwinPeaks on March 14, 2019, 09:09:55 PM
You could make a whole film just about a group of people trying to come to grips with the reality of the talking raccoon that's come from space. But in this, it's just one component. That's what makes this film good.
It says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree spearing space aliens without much of a second thought.

I suppose, after some weird experiment turns you from Walter Softy to Mr Universe, and when your first real mission as a super soldier concludes with a Nazi revealing he has a big fuck-off red skull for a head, you learn to conclude the universe is a bit messed up.

Mister Six

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 14, 2019, 05:07:12 PM
Arsene Wenger's Post-match.
Oh, sure they would. With all the complaints about continuity and that, no one ever seems to realise they could just read the synopses on Wikipedia.

You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on March 14, 2019, 09:35:02 PM
It says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree spearing space aliens without much of a second thought.

I suppose, after some weird experiment turns you from Walter Softy to Mr Universe, and when your first real mission as a super soldier concludes with a Nazi revealing he has a big fuck-off red skull for a head, you learn to conclude the universe is a bit messed up.

To be fair, he's mates with a Norse god and a fella who turns into an angry green giant - that probably broadens your horizons a bit too. Probably waking up to a black US president was a bigger shock for him.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Mister Six on March 15, 2019, 03:28:32 PM
You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

phantom_power

Quote from: Mister Six on March 15, 2019, 03:28:32 PM
You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.


Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

Glebe

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on March 14, 2019, 09:35:02 PMIt says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree



Ferris

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 15, 2019, 03:38:12 PM
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

Immediately after any new character turns up on screen for the first time, Limmy should appear as an audience surrogate and ask "hey you... what's yer hing?"

And they could reply "lightning" or "blind, but do karate" or whatever. Would really save time.

Chriddof

Quote from: phantom_power on March 15, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

That was really the beginning of superhero comics strangling themselves with their own continuity. Before Marvel properly got going you had DC Comics and other less well-remembered publishers not giving much of a shit about it, or just saying "Oh, that took place on another timeline" or something. But then people had to be anal about it and you started to get things like Crisis On Infinite Earths.

I don't think strangling is the right word at all. Continuity allows comics to grow and evolve and the event that happens may inform the decisions in later storylines. It is however a double edged sword, the tactic marvel use it quite good when it works out, essentially having a soft reboot and a new vol number everytime there is a big statis quo change or creative team change. What can upset it is when a company wide event conflicts with a solo creative vision for one line, derailing the story. The continuity is why I'm a Marvel reader over a DC reader, pretty much everything counts.

Mister Six

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 15, 2019, 03:38:12 PM
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

Probably, but if Ant-Man turns up in the Avengers and you haven't seen Ant-Man 1 or 2, you can at least shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I chose not to see that." It's not like you're likely to have been unaware of the character's previous films existing.

Meanwhile, Daredevil appears on a totally different medium, in an adults-only show that a huge chunk of the audience aren't likely to have seen or know about. Having some hitherto unseen backflipping cunt turn up and be a big hero when the plot is clearly going to be focused on the cinema cast we've come to know and love/like/tolerate/hate over the past 11 years is going to be narratively distracting.

It might work if they'd started doing Daredevil movies before now and transitioned him over to a cinema role. But without that, it would have to be - at most - him and Foggy (or whoever) glimpsed as otherwise unremarkable New York denizens reacting to big events.

Quote from: phantom_power on March 15, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

Well it used to be that there would be a line of dialogue, something like "Of course! I must have left the microchip on the Moon when base exploded!*" And there'd be a little editor's note saying "* See Fantastic Adventure #45, readers!"

Now it's full-on, multi-panel crossovers that run for a year, with 30+ regular comics all having to pause or disrupt their storylines as characters you don't know or care about burst into the storyline and demand that you pick up five other ongoing series - Out this week, readers! - and seven dedicated spin-off miniseries to understand what's happening.

Marvel veered towards this kind of shit by trying to turn Age of Ultron into some kind of jumping-off point for a bunch of franchises, but have steered clear since - sensibly. Trying to bring the TV series into the movies would only create horrible headaches and distractions for everyone except a relatively small contingent of fans.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Mister Six on March 15, 2019, 10:18:25 PM
Having some hitherto unseen backflipping cunt turn up and be a big hero when the plot is clearly going to be focused on the cinema cast we've come to know and love/like/tolerate/hate over the past 11 years is going to be narratively distracting.
It's moot point, since none of the telly characters were ever going to turn up in the films anyway. Much less in this, the ultra mega slam bang send off for the original team. If it ever did happen though, they'd simply be treated as a new character. It would be much like how Scarlet Witch, Black Panther or Spider-Man were introduced. Your milage may vary on how well their debuts were handled, of course.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Mister Six on March 15, 2019, 10:18:25 PMIt might work if they'd started doing Daredevil movies before now and transitioned him over to a cinema role. But without that, it would have to be - at most - him and Foggy (or whoever) glimpsed as otherwise unremarkable New York denizens reacting to big events.


mjwilson

I picked up a few new Captain America comics recently - I started from #1 of a story but they were still dropping in all kinds of characters as if I was supposed to know who they were from the previous 40 years.

Dex Sawash


Mr_Simnock

Quote from: phantom_power on March 15, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

So you have to go out and buy the other comic to find out - genius idea from Lee to sucker the readers into more sales

Glebe


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I made the rookie mistake of reading the youtube comments under the trailer. So very many manbabies are complaining because they are convinced that Captain Marvel is going to single handedly fix everything. Baseless speculation, that they treat as fact because of their own paranoid misogyny.

phantom_power

And even if she does so what? She is probably the most super-powered of the lot of them

Kelvin

Quote from: phantom_power on March 18, 2019, 08:47:16 AM
And even if she does so what? She is probably the most super-powered of the lot of them

She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.

She won't save the entire universe, though. They've clearly got all the original avengers for that purpose. She'll just do a lot of the physical stuff with Thanos and Hulk, I assume.

phantom_power

Quote from: Kelvin on March 18, 2019, 12:21:47 PM
She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.


It would be odd if she was solely responsible, but also it would be odd if she didn't make a big difference. She has pretty much every power the other Avengers have and then some.

Kelvin

Quote from: phantom_power on March 18, 2019, 12:35:17 PM
It would be odd if she was solely responsible, but also it would be odd if she didn't make a big difference. She has pretty much every power the other Avengers have and then some.

Yes, of course. Which is why charachters of that power level are always hard to do - especially in team ups. Superman being the most obvious example.

It's a shame she wasn't introduced sooner, so her power wasn't (likely to be) such a sudden game changer. I'm sure she and Hulk will do the heavy lifting in a fight, but that the other charachters will all be given plenty to do, and probably more interesting, fleshed out arcs. I certainly don't foresee it will be a big problem in the film. We've seen multiple times now that the Russos know how to balance the screentime for everyone.

phantom_power

For one thing it won't just be about a big fight. They are going to have to find some way to undo the snap and I hope it isn't just a case of beating up Thanos, nicking his gauntlet and snapping again.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Kelvin on March 18, 2019, 12:52:40 PM
Yes, of course. Which is why charachters of that power level are always hard to do - especially in team ups. Superman being the most obvious example.
She's not even that mega, is she? She can fly around, has some degree of superstrength and does light-fisting.

Mango Chimes

Yeah, everyone's saying she introduces the Superman problem, but from the Captain Marvel film we didn't see her being significantly more powerful than we've seen Vision and Thor. Vision did fuck all in Infinity War, but he can fly, lift stuff, fire a big laser and phase through matter. Thor can teleport, fly, smash through spaceships and fire lightning. They can all handle infinity stones. Marvel's just another one of them.

I was going on about this in the Captain Marvel thread, but I reckon what she adds could be whatever she's been up to for the past twenty years.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I was thinking the other day that it's (Dr.) strange how Starlord gets blamed for screwing everything up, but Thor gets off scot free. They both let their sense of loss cloud their judgement, giving Thanos a chance to win. Thor chooses to torture Thanos, rather than dispatch him quickly, with even Thanos pointing out that Thor should have chopped him in the bonce. Even after the snap, Thor could still have killed Thanos and grabbed the Gauntlet.

Quote from: Kelvin on March 18, 2019, 12:21:47 PM
She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.
That would indeed be odd. As you say though, that's very unlikely. What bothers me is how the manbabies are acting like it's already happened. Her mere presence is proof to them that Marvel has been subverted by feminazi propaganda.

phantom_power

She can fly through space on her own. That's quite impressive. And she can destroy pretty much everything around her with a wave of energy. I would say she is a fair bit stronger than the other Avengers

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


phantom_power

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on March 18, 2019, 03:20:00 PM
Thor can do that.

He can't fly through space can he? Doesn't he need the bifrost? Is he your dad or something?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: phantom_power on March 18, 2019, 06:01:39 PM
He can't fly through space can he? Doesn't he need the bifrost? Is he your dad or something?
He can't fly at all without his hammer/axe-thingy, right?