Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame  (Read 6966 times)

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #180 on: March 14, 2019, 08:26:00 PM »
I guess the main thing we take from it is that (apparently, as noted Marvel have form for fucking us about) Stark and Nebula somehow get back to Earth. Best guess is that Captain Marvel dragged them along somehow on her route to answering the pager?

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #181 on: March 14, 2019, 09:09:55 PM »
You could make a whole film just about a group of people trying to come to grips with the reality of the talking raccoon that's come from space. But in this, it's just one component. That's what makes this film good.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #182 on: March 14, 2019, 09:35:02 PM »
You could make a whole film just about a group of people trying to come to grips with the reality of the talking raccoon that's come from space. But in this, it's just one component. That's what makes this film good.
It says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree spearing space aliens without much of a second thought.

I suppose, after some weird experiment turns you from Walter Softy to Mr Universe, and when your first real mission as a super soldier concludes with a Nazi revealing he has a big fuck-off red skull for a head, you learn to conclude the universe is a bit messed up.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #183 on: March 15, 2019, 03:28:32 PM »
Arsene Wenger's Post-match.
Oh, sure they would. With all the complaints about continuity and that, no one ever seems to realise they could just read the synopses on Wikipedia.

You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.

It says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree spearing space aliens without much of a second thought.

I suppose, after some weird experiment turns you from Walter Softy to Mr Universe, and when your first real mission as a super soldier concludes with a Nazi revealing he has a big fuck-off red skull for a head, you learn to conclude the universe is a bit messed up.

To be fair, he's mates with a Norse god and a fella who turns into an angry green giant - that probably broadens your horizons a bit too. Probably waking up to a black US president was a bigger shock for him.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #184 on: March 15, 2019, 03:38:12 PM »
You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #185 on: March 15, 2019, 04:23:14 PM »
You shouldn't have to read a Wikipedia synopsis about a tangentially related TV show to watch a movie. That's patently absurd, and the kind of story-strangling shit that's killing superhero comics.


Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #186 on: March 15, 2019, 07:58:10 PM »
It says something about Steve Rogers that he accepts the reality of a walking tree



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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #187 on: March 15, 2019, 09:49:52 PM »
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

Immediately after any new character turns up on screen for the first time, Limmy should appear as an audience surrogate and ask “hey you... what’s yer hing?”

And they could reply “lightning” or “blind, but do karate” or whatever. Would really save time.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #188 on: March 15, 2019, 09:51:22 PM »
Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

That was really the beginning of superhero comics strangling themselves with their own continuity. Before Marvel properly got going you had DC Comics and other less well-remembered publishers not giving much of a shit about it, or just saying "Oh, that took place on another timeline" or something. But then people had to be anal about it and you started to get things like Crisis On Infinite Earths.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #189 on: March 15, 2019, 10:00:37 PM »
I don't think strangling is the right word at all. Continuity allows comics to grow and evolve and the event that happens may inform the decisions in later storylines. It is however a double edged sword, the tactic marvel use it quite good when it works out, essentially having a soft reboot and a new vol number everytime there is a big statis quo change or creative team change. What can upset it is when a company wide event conflicts with a solo creative vision for one line, derailing the story. The continuity is why I'm a Marvel reader over a DC reader, pretty much everything counts.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #190 on: March 15, 2019, 10:18:25 PM »
Fair enough. Have there actually been any of these that truly aren't accessible to newcomers though? If Daredevil actually did turn up in one of these, I'd expect he'd get a perfectly adequate introduction - probably making the sign of the cross after spinkicking someone in the balls.

Probably, but if Ant-Man turns up in the Avengers and you haven't seen Ant-Man 1 or 2, you can at least shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I chose not to see that." It's not like you're likely to have been unaware of the character's previous films existing.

Meanwhile, Daredevil appears on a totally different medium, in an adults-only show that a huge chunk of the audience aren't likely to have seen or know about. Having some hitherto unseen backflipping cunt turn up and be a big hero when the plot is clearly going to be focused on the cinema cast we've come to know and love/like/tolerate/hate over the past 11 years is going to be narratively distracting.

It might work if they'd started doing Daredevil movies before now and transitioned him over to a cinema role. But without that, it would have to be - at most - him and Foggy (or whoever) glimpsed as otherwise unremarkable New York denizens reacting to big events.

Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

Well it used to be that there would be a line of dialogue, something like "Of course! I must have left the microchip on the Moon when base exploded!*" And there'd be a little editor's note saying "* See Fantastic Adventure #45, readers!"

Now it's full-on, multi-panel crossovers that run for a year, with 30+ regular comics all having to pause or disrupt their storylines as characters you don't know or care about burst into the storyline and demand that you pick up five other ongoing series - Out this week, readers! - and seven dedicated spin-off miniseries to understand what's happening.

Marvel veered towards this kind of shit by trying to turn Age of Ultron into some kind of jumping-off point for a bunch of franchises, but have steered clear since - sensibly. Trying to bring the TV series into the movies would only create horrible headaches and distractions for everyone except a relatively small contingent of fans.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #191 on: March 16, 2019, 12:27:12 AM »
Having some hitherto unseen backflipping cunt turn up and be a big hero when the plot is clearly going to be focused on the cinema cast we've come to know and love/like/tolerate/hate over the past 11 years is going to be narratively distracting.
It's moot point, since none of the telly characters were ever going to turn up in the films anyway. Much less in this, the ultra mega slam bang send off for the original team. If it ever did happen though, they'd simply be treated as a new character. It would be much like how Scarlet Witch, Black Panther or Spider-Man were introduced. Your milage may vary on how well their debuts were handled, of course.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #192 on: March 16, 2019, 12:31:15 AM »
It might work if they'd started doing Daredevil movies before now and transitioned him over to a cinema role. But without that, it would have to be - at most - him and Foggy (or whoever) glimpsed as otherwise unremarkable New York denizens reacting to big events.


Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #193 on: March 16, 2019, 09:59:57 AM »
I picked up a few new Captain America comics recently - I started from #1 of a story but they were still dropping in all kinds of characters as if I was supposed to know who they were from the previous 40 years.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #194 on: March 17, 2019, 12:54:50 AM »

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #195 on: March 17, 2019, 02:39:02 AM »
Superhero comics have always been like that haven't they? That's why Stan Lee had to pop up and tell you what issue something happened in every now and again

So you have to go out and buy the other comic to find out - genius idea from Lee to sucker the readers into more sales

Glebe

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #196 on: March 17, 2019, 07:17:41 AM »

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #197 on: March 17, 2019, 11:20:02 PM »
I made the rookie mistake of reading the youtube comments under the trailer. So very many manbabies are complaining because they are convinced that Captain Marvel is going to single handedly fix everything. Baseless speculation, that they treat as fact because of their own paranoid misogyny.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #198 on: March 18, 2019, 08:47:16 AM »
And even if she does so what? She is probably the most super-powered of the lot of them

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #199 on: March 18, 2019, 12:21:47 PM »
And even if she does so what? She is probably the most super-powered of the lot of them

She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.

She won't save the entire universe, though. They've clearly got all the original avengers for that purpose. She'll just do a lot of the physical stuff with Thanos and Hulk, I assume.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #200 on: March 18, 2019, 12:35:17 PM »
She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.


It would be odd if she was solely responsible, but also it would be odd if she didn't make a big difference. She has pretty much every power the other Avengers have and then some.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #201 on: March 18, 2019, 12:52:40 PM »
It would be odd if she was solely responsible, but also it would be odd if she didn't make a big difference. She has pretty much every power the other Avengers have and then some.

Yes, of course. Which is why charachters of that power level are always hard to do - especially in team ups. Superman being the most obvious example.

It's a shame she wasn't introduced sooner, so her power wasn't (likely to be) such a sudden game changer. I'm sure she and Hulk will do the heavy lifting in a fight, but that the other charachters will all be given plenty to do, and probably more interesting, fleshed out arcs. I certainly don't foresee it will be a big problem in the film. We've seen multiple times now that the Russos know how to balance the screentime for everyone.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #202 on: March 18, 2019, 02:05:20 PM »
For one thing it won't just be about a big fight. They are going to have to find some way to undo the snap and I hope it isn't just a case of beating up Thanos, nicking his gauntlet and snapping again.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #203 on: March 18, 2019, 02:21:58 PM »
Yes, of course. Which is why charachters of that power level are always hard to do - especially in team ups. Superman being the most obvious example.
She's not even that mega, is she? She can fly around, has some degree of superstrength and does light-fisting.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #204 on: March 18, 2019, 02:37:11 PM »
Yeah, everyone's saying she introduces the Superman problem, but from the Captain Marvel film we didn't see her being significantly more powerful than we've seen Vision and Thor. Vision did fuck all in Infinity War, but he can fly, lift stuff, fire a big laser and phase through matter. Thor can teleport, fly, smash through spaceships and fire lightning. They can all handle infinity stones. Marvel's just another one of them.

I was going on about this in the Captain Marvel thread, but I reckon what she adds could be whatever she's been up to for the past twenty years.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #205 on: March 18, 2019, 03:10:05 PM »
I was thinking the other day that it's (Dr.) strange how Starlord gets blamed for screwing everything up, but Thor gets off scot free. They both let their sense of loss cloud their judgement, giving Thanos a chance to win. Thor chooses to torture Thanos, rather than dispatch him quickly, with even Thanos pointing out that Thor should have chopped him in the bonce. Even after the snap, Thor could still have killed Thanos and grabbed the Gauntlet.

She's also brand new. It would be odd if this entire arc of 76 films was ultimately resolved by a charachter who only turned up at the very end and who hasn't gone through everything the core cast has.
That would indeed be odd. As you say though, that's very unlikely. What bothers me is how the manbabies are acting like it's already happened. Her mere presence is proof to them that Marvel has been subverted by feminazi propaganda.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #206 on: March 18, 2019, 03:10:48 PM »
She can fly through space on her own. That's quite impressive. And she can destroy pretty much everything around her with a wave of energy. I would say she is a fair bit stronger than the other Avengers

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #207 on: March 18, 2019, 03:20:00 PM »
Thor can do that.

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #208 on: March 18, 2019, 06:01:39 PM »
Thor can do that.

He can't fly through space can he? Doesn't he need the bifrost? Is he your dad or something?

Re: Avengers: Endgame
« Reply #209 on: March 18, 2019, 06:07:10 PM »
He can't fly through space can he? Doesn't he need the bifrost? Is he your dad or something?
He can't fly at all without his hammer/axe-thingy, right?