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Moving back to England

Started by Nowhere Man, December 08, 2018, 10:14:44 AM

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Twed

Quote from: kngen on December 08, 2018, 05:32:05 PM
The South/Mid-Atlantic region is definitely different in feel than the North - a bit more homely and welcoming, even if that is a horrendous cliche.  And East and West Coasts have a different atmosphere in general. Maybe not different countries, but marked enough to delineate them. (Angry and cold vs warm and stupid). And Cleveland is batshit mental, LA's a hole, and Portland, Oregon, is just a silly, silly place.
I suppose what I mean is that there's the same sort of basic personality defaults everywhere. And thinking about that a bit further, it might just be that there's a general lack of British and European attitude (naturally). It can be a bit frustrating when you do something in an understated way, or try to instill a little tactfulness into a situation, or use even slightly dry humour and it's interpreted as a fascinating spectacle and you're put on a pedestal and compared to John Oliver or whatever. It's nice, but alienating because you get nothing back.

Quote from: Twed on December 08, 2018, 06:18:58 PM
I suppose what I mean is that there's the same sort of basic personality defaults everywhere. And thinking about that a bit further, it might just be that there's a general lack of British and European attitude (naturally). It can be a bit frustrating when you do something in an understated way, or try to instill a little tactfulness into a situation, or use even slightly dry humour and it's interpreted as a fascinating spectacle and you're put on a pedestal and compared to John Oliver or whatever. It's nice, but alienating because you get nothing back.

Move to a proper city

Sin Agog

You'd think Californians would be used to our dry humour at this point, what with the drought and all.

Ferris

Quote from: Twed on December 08, 2018, 06:18:58 PM
I suppose what I mean is that there's the same sort of basic personality defaults everywhere. And thinking about that a bit further, it might just be that there's a general lack of British and European attitude (naturally). It can be a bit frustrating when you do something in an understated way, or try to instill a little tactfulness into a situation, or use even slightly dry humour and it's interpreted as a fascinating spectacle and you're put on a pedestal and compared to John Oliver or whatever. It's nice, but alienating because you get nothing back.

I really liked Canada for that reason when I first moved - it is different enough to feel exciting and new, but familiar enough to feel like home. Maybe the US lacks the familiarity to make that jump even harder? The people seem (almost) as funny, friendly, self-deprecating as Brits/Canadians but most of my experience is on the east coast and Midwest to big urban centres so that may be a very warped view. That's why I asked where Nowhere Man was living. I imagine Chicago is very different to Peoria.

I stopped being a "novelty" when my accent started to shift to its current mongrel state. Unless I'm in a small town somewhere, nobody mentions it. Maybe it is I who has changed, ahhhh do you not see?

Twed

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on December 08, 2018, 06:33:48 PM
Move to a proper city
Boston is awful.

I dunno, maybe I'll give Vermont a shot. If that fails I'll try Seattle, and then fuck off back to Chelmsford.

Twed

Don't get me wrong, it's not a desperate situation, but it's like wanting to settle down and watch Alan Partridge but getting the worst SNL sketches instead.

Nowhere Man

I'm in Champaign, Il. Which is a bit nothingsville compared to Chicago, but it's still miles better than Springfield, Il (the actual capitol of Illinois, despite being mostly shit)

Cuellar

Fuck England, what a joke. Why move back here? What a toilet. A cunts disaster.

Twed

Really good roast dinners though.

I'll have lived in Amsterdam 10 years this February, don't think I could face moving back to England, not that I love it here really.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Nowhere Man on December 08, 2018, 08:56:29 PM
I'm in Champaign, Il. Which is a bit nothingsville compared to Chicago, but it's still miles better than Springfield, Il (the actual capitol of Illinois, despite being mostly shit)

Youtube has just made a tv series about your town, does it reflect your experiences? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VUoAIVeDFI

Blue Jam

Quote from: Cuellar on December 08, 2018, 10:43:57 PM
Fuck England, what a joke. Why move back here? What a toilet. A cunts disaster.

Quite right. Nowhere Man, move to Scotland instead.

Remember Sting singing that he was an illegal alien as an Englishman in New York? He should have tried living in a midwestern town for any period of time, those places make New York feel like it's from another universe. Rural USA is a place I've never been able to wrap my head around, people from those places have much less in common with the average brit than someone from any other country in mainland Europe in spite of the language and culture barriers.

Sin Agog

Quote from: Nice Relaxing Poo on December 09, 2018, 12:09:23 AM
Remember Sting singing that he was an illegal alien as an Englishman in New York? He should have tried living in a midwestern town for any period of time, those places make New York feel like it's from another universe. Rural USA is a place I've never been able to wrap my head around, people from those places have much less in common with the average brit than someone from any other country in mainland Europe in spite of the language and culture barriers.

That song was about Quentin Crisp's time in New York, not his own.

Ferris

Quote from: Blue Jam on December 09, 2018, 12:05:45 AM
Quite right. Nowhere Man, move to Scotland instead.

"She's talkin' sense, ken!"

Dex Sawash

Quote from: Nowhere Man on December 08, 2018, 08:56:29 PM
I'm in Champaign, Il. Which is a bit nothingsville

I was born there, fact fans.

I'll continue to wave out the window at Nowhere Man when I fly over on the way to the other coast.

Buelligan

Quote from: Better Midlands on December 08, 2018, 11:31:30 PM
I'll have lived in Amsterdam 10 years this February, don't think I could face moving back to England, not that I love it here really.

Yes, been here about 12 years, maybe more, I don't count stuff.  I sometimes imagine riding the twisties between Abergavenny and Llandovery, then out, on to Carmarthen, St Clears, Fishguard (home of terrible deodorant) and the sea, get the boat into the west.  Or up over the Brecons, the crows, sound of sheep and rushing water, hazel woods, bluebells in the hedge and the rust of bracken on the winter hills.  It's the hiraeth.  They got a Waitrose now, you see?  All done for me.  Can't even imagine missing England.  Something must be there, under the concrete but I'm fucked if I can see it any more.

Dr Trouser

I was dreading leaving Asia and coming back to England, thankfully I ended up in Scotland.

Attila

Quote from: Blinder Data on December 08, 2018, 11:20:01 AM
I was going to suggest this. Don't want to put you off coming back but I've read tons of horror stories about international marriages, visas, home office, etc

It was a huge clusterfuck for me to get my visa, then leave to remain, then citizenship (and a costly one) -- and that was before they changed the rules (just squeaked by in 2012, when it was still visa + two years to get LTR; now it's five).

I'd highly recommend working with a lawyer who specialises in immigration -- you'll need that lawyer at the UK end -- because trying to navigate your way through the process on your own will be horrendous. A lot of the information you'll need, you simply will not find online, not even on the UK gov't pages -- that's on purpose.

A protip: once you do get her visa, and the clock starts ticking to apply for the leave to remain, start at once and continue to collect the 'evidence' that you will have to supply for the LTR paperwork that you two are a real couple, actually married, that she's intergrating with UK life. Since mine was just for two years (reality - 18 months; never, ever run up against any of the 'real' deadlines you're given), I got a big ring binder and dividers and every month just tucked into it a bank statement, cards, photos, whatever that showed we were together than that we were at the same address.

The citizenship test is a joy, too -- as an American, she'll have to 'unlearn' a lot of stuff because some of the questions seem common sense/familiar, but yeah, stuff like being able to answer stuff about govt process and how the various court systems work in all four countries is a pain in the arse. They have a little book to use for studying for the exam -- get it, memorise it, take a lot of practice tests, and it's a piece of piss. Taking the test itself will be an exercise in humiliation, as you're herded into a test centre and if you take the test 'too fast' the way I did, she might be asked to answer questions by the invigilator. And for the love of God, make sure the details on her passport exactly match the application form for the test.

The entire time I was going through the process, I also had the joy of then Home Secretary Theresa May and her cronies constantly changing the rules and regs -- and so I had to keep changing stuff to keep up with it.

Finally, she needs to keep in mind that the US will not fucking let her go -- she'll have to file income taxes every year (not pay them, but still file, including a form demonstrating that she has a form of AHC). I have to pay about $600 a year just to file taxes as an ex pat. And enjoy having bank accounts in the US frozen unless she withdraws everything and brings it over here.

Any questions or if she'd like commiseration, feel free to PM me. I am so glad to have that part of my life behind me it's not even funny.

To add -- it IS doable, just plan in advance and keep a sense of humour about all of it; and if you've got family support over here, that helps a heck of a lot. There are a lot of ex-pat sites and things you can check out for advice and commiseration for people who've been through the process.


It's a great place to live if you can afford to live well, basically, but seems absolutely shit otherwise. There's a certain something in the air, though, that serious change is coming. To be honest, it probably won't benefit me financially but I think it needs to happen and I'll support whatever comes if it's for the greater good.

Any 'arguments' about depressing town centres mean nothing if you live in some poncey village near a lake or river or rolling hills, or all of the above. It can be an absolutely beautiful wonderful place, full of life and warmth and home cooking and humour and all that. I find it pretty uneventful compared to China because you have to make stuff happen here but I was deep deep burnt out there, formative years and brimming with adventure, nothing really touched the sides ever since. The round the clock hyperstimulation and sensory overload and emotional roller-coaster is like few things on Earth, so coming back from that is like quitting crack and replacing it with jogging. The upside is that I'm not manic as fuck all the time and I actually love being at home for the first time in my life and I can relax. More or less.

Pijlstaart

England not looking too inviting right now, feels very small and parochial. Americans in my vicinity are very cultured, bougie, they know all the most esoteric sex positions and they all brew kombucha. They expect more from life and I think they are good at taking more out of it. Uniformly bad with money though, but they have a lot of opportunity here, and an attitude that engenders success, there's a dynamism and a willingness which I find refreshing. My career is in the doldrums, and I'll probably have to retrain completely in the next few years when I head back to the UK, but with a greencard I could fall into a solid middle-class job here with ease.

I'm based in a famously overcast and dreary place, but it is far sunnier than the UK and people are far warmer, more open and more accepting. There are trays of brownies and sweets for me, for free, and work gives me weekly beer and pizza for free, and the big boss at the top is not a man but a walrus, the most amazing jolly walrus that rears up and pats us all on the back with his mighty flipper.

Even the homeless are different here, they have homeless villages, and they're rolling in drugs, living it up, and they'll even eschew free housing for their bevy of drugs, an informed choice, and they'll lie out under the clear, unpolluted night sky, the splendour of the galaxy arrayed before them, and they are at peace with their role in it. One homeless man recently had a massive teddy bear, he waved it around and the bear smiled at me. Another homeless woman looked like the girl from The Ring, and she chased a bus and then she stood in a puddle, enraptured. There was a tiny mexican man with a shiny head and he was pointing excitedly at a row of plum trees and gibbering, and his friend turned to me excitedly and said "What are those? Are those plums? Man, those are plums for eating? Oh brother, we can take them?!" and they both pointed at the plums and looked at me with glee, the warmest purest smiles, and I was nodding back at them and grinning, it was a special moment. It's just different to the UK.



mothman

^ Felt a bit Bill Bryson if I'm honest.

Ferris

Quote from: Attila on December 09, 2018, 09:03:24 AM
It was a huge clusterfuck for me to get my visa, then leave to remain, then citizenship (and a costly one) -- and that was before they changed the rules (just squeaked by in 2012, when it was still visa + two years to get LTR; now it's five).

...

To add -- it IS doable, just plan in advance and keep a sense of humour about all of it; and if you've got family support over here, that helps a heck of a lot. There are a lot of ex-pat sites and things you can check out for advice and commiseration for people who've been through the process.

Should have just married a Royal, mate. Couldn't get that citizenship for Syoots through fast enough, though I imagine the embarrassing levels of forelock-tugging may have caused delays.

(I'm pretty angry about that whole debacle.)

Attila

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on December 09, 2018, 02:10:18 PM
Should have just married a Royal, mate. Couldn't get that citizenship for Syoots through fast enough, though I imagine the embarrassing levels of forelock-tugging may have caused delays.

(I'm pretty angry about that whole debacle.)

Daft as it sounds, it was infuriating that she was syooper fast-tracked for her marriage to Bants. Had she had to go through the usual clusterfuck, culminating with a dreary last stop at the paperwork place in South Croydon, yeah, might not be so irked at seeing everyone curtsey to her.

That and hey nonny nonny ho, her mother is suddenly living over here, despite having a criminal record and having declared bankruptcy -- whereas I was raked over the coals by beedly admin men hoping like fuck to find so much as a parking ticket to use as an excuse to dismiss my application (the one for the visa was about 25 pages, and the one for the LTR remain about 40 -- that's excluding all of the supporting documents and paperwork they demanded not only from me, but Mr Attila).

And a note -- unless the British spouse wants to get sucked into the IRS and other FATCA bullshit, the American and British spouses can't buy anything in joint, like a house. Even after becoming a British citizen, I'm still liable for issues from British banks who don't want to deal with the paperwork that the IRS might demand from them.

At some point I'm going to have to pay the extortionate fee to renounce US citizenship because the IRS will attempt to dip into my pension and tax is, even though it's money earned at a UK job, with taxes paid to the UK treasury, and kept in a UK bank.

That said, despite the issues, I'd still rather be living here than in the US, so there's that.

kngen

Quote from: Twed on December 08, 2018, 06:18:58 PM
I suppose what I mean is that there's the same sort of basic personality defaults everywhere. And thinking about that a bit further, it might just be that there's a general lack of British and European attitude (naturally). It can be a bit frustrating when you do something in an understated way, or try to instill a little tactfulness into a situation, or use even slightly dry humour and it's interpreted as a fascinating spectacle and you're put on a pedestal and compared to John Oliver or whatever. It's nice, but alienating because you get nothing back.

Yeah, I get what you mean. Further to that, while I'm lucky to have a lot of friends here - they are all fairly superficial relationships - and I'm far more used to having one or two deep, lasting friendships than the social butterfly thing that goes on here. Then again, I moved here from London, so it's not a huge difference, other than the quality of life* is far, far better, and there's less Facebook/Instragram/keeping up appearances nonsense here than what passed for a social life there. So, as I'm already once removed from my natural habitat (Glasgow), I don't particularly miss my last British home. Quite the opposite, really.



*Giant prawns, Stu!

Twed

Quote from: The Boston Crab on December 09, 2018, 10:03:19 AM
Any 'arguments' about depressing town centres mean nothing if you live in some poncey village near a lake or river or rolling hills, or all of the above. It can be an absolutely beautiful wonderful place, full of life and warmth and home cooking and humour and all that.
Indeed. Buelligan's "if you can find it under the concrete" is only true for the poor (which is of course a major problem with the country). England has been the most pleasant place I've lived in because I grew up in a nice part, but I was also forced to spend several years in Ipswich, which was grim and hellish.