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Shows that survived... or didn't

Started by Tony Tony Tony, December 08, 2018, 11:38:02 PM

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Autopsy Turvey

I only recently found out that 'Allo 'Allo recast Herr Flick in its final series, which is mad. They must have known it would be the final series, seems odd not to see it out.

Pert Kelton made a more convincing wife for Jackie Gleason than Audrey Meadows, but she was squeezed out of The Honeymooners due to the McCarthy blacklist. Audrey had a better comic rapport and more sass, but Pert had a more earthy, acerbic quality.

The introduction of Coy and Vance Duke to replace Bo and Luke make me nauseous with fury when I was four.

Sin Agog

I really should try finishing the second season of Monkey one day.  I keep on getting jarred by the recasting of Pigsy into putting it back on the shelf.  I bet they get up to a ton of entertaining adventures, but the first actor who played him was too distinctive to just recast him without a word said. It felt like replacing Geoffrey Bayldon's Catweazle with Rock Hudson.

Icehaven

Not quite the same thing but swapping Blackadder and Baldrick's intelligence and deviousness levels after the first series seemed to pay off. 

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on December 10, 2018, 03:19:21 AM

The introduction of Coy and Vance Duke to replace Bo and Luke make me nauseous with fury when I was four.

I was similarly aghast at that age as to why Pete Duel was replaced by Roger Davis in Alias Smith & Jones until it was explained to me why.

This is when Hollywood is brutal.

In the early morning hours of December 31, 1971, series star Pete Duel died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at the age of 31. He reportedly was suffering from depression and had been drinking heavily when he shot himself. Upon learning of Duel's death, executive producer Jo Swerling, Jr., initially wanted to end the series, but ABC refused. Swerling later stated:

ABC said, "No way!" They said, "You have a contract to deliver this show to us, and you will continue to deliver the show as best you can on schedule or we will sue you." Hearing those words, Universal didn't hesitate for a second to instruct us to stay in production. We were already a little bit behind the eight ball on airdates. So, we contacted everybody, including Ben (Murphy), and told them to come back in. The entire company was reassembled and back in production by one o'clock that day shooting scenes that did not involve Peter — only 12 hours after his death.

Series writer, director, and producer Roy Huggins contacted actor Roger Davis (who had appeared in episode 19 "Smiler with a Gun" and provided narration for the series) the day of Duel's death to fill the role of Hannibal Heyes. Davis was fitted for costumes the following day, and began reshooting scenes Duel previously had completed for an unfinished episode the following Monday. According to Swerling, the decision to continue production so soon after Duel's death was heavily criticized in the press at the time

Icehaven

Quote from: kidsick5000 on December 09, 2018, 12:13:21 AM
Game On lost a key component of it's concept when it brought in Neil Stuke for Ben Chaplin.
Yet it still ran.


Yes this is the ultimate example for me, they really should have got someone as similar to Chaplin as possible as he was perfect. Having to have Matthew be played by someone else at all was bad enough but getting someone absolutely nothing like him in looks and general ambience was a huge mistake.

Panbaams

Tim McInnerny left Blackadder to avoid being typecast, to be replaced by Hugh Laurie as the show's posh idiot.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Panbaams on December 10, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
Tim McInnerny left Blackadder to avoid being typecast, to be replaced by Hugh Laurie as the show's posh idiot.

But McInnerny plays a posh idiot (The Scarlet Pimpernel) in one episode of Blackadder 3 and plays a posh idiot (Darling) in Blackadder Goes Forth. I reckon it was availability issues rather than his fear of typecasting. Or the Beeb wanted to bring Hugh Laurie on board as his star was in full ascendance by this point?

Jittlebags

On the Buses. Arthur wasn't in the last series, and Stan disappeared half way through, shifting the focus onto Jack and Blakey. And Doris Hare appears to have been played by Cicely Courtneidge in series 1.

bigfatheart

NewsRadio - Khandi Alexander quit early in the 4th season. Not the greatest loss - it always felt like a show that had ended up with a way bigger cast than needed for a three-camera studio sitcom, and her character was definitely the one who'd had the least development and got the least screentime.

A few months later, Phil Hartman was shot, so they lost another cast member. Carried on for another season with Jon Lovitz, but unsurprisingly it was never quite the same, and it's hard to get away from the gloomy atmosphere around that season.

Sebastian Cobb

Man Down did an alright job by not trying to replace Mayall properly and bringing in Stephanie Cole.

Gulftastic

Quote from: worldsgreatestsinner on December 09, 2018, 12:38:19 AM
Cheers would be a pretty big one with Shelley Long leaving.

They also survived losing Nick Colasanto.

Brundle-Fly

Not comedy, but is Taggart the boldest continuation of a TV franchise ever after the loss of the title character? Or does Blake's Seven take that honour?

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on December 10, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
Not comedy, but is Taggart the boldest continuation of a TV franchise ever after the loss of the title character?

TV ratings definitely went down though.



There's been a murder.

Thosworth

Quote from: icehaven on December 10, 2018, 09:41:58 AM
Not quite the same thing but swapping Blackadder and Baldrick's intelligence and deviousness levels after the first series seemed to pay off.

As a huge fan of the original, I was slightly put out when the second series became such a massive hit, part of that being the switch in personalities.

However much later I saw the original unaired pilot, and at that point Atkinson was actually far closer to the cunning, intelligent character of S2 onwards, which was quite interesting to see.

Quote from: Thosworth on December 11, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
As a huge fan of the original, I was slightly put out when the second series became such a massive hit, part of that being the switch in personalities.

However much later I saw the original unaired pilot, and at that point Atkinson was actually far closer to the cunning, intelligent character of S2 onwards, which was quite interesting to see.

The S2-4 characterisations wouldn't have worked in the original series which is why they switched the archetypes. It's the only time Blackadder was a member of the ruling class and therefore he needed something more than bungling servants to keep him from his ambitions.

A devious, scheming Prince Edmund would have logically murdered his way to the throne in pretty short order.

EOLAN

Well Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has just self-referentially done this with Greg. The way they were playing it; it kind of helped that the replacement actor had that look like you knew him from somewhere but couldn't quite place it. But then I had that history with the real version of Greg.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: EOLAN on December 11, 2018, 11:58:52 AM
Well Crazy Ex-Girlfriend has just self-referentially done this with Greg. The way they were playing it; it kind of helped that the replacement actor had that look like you knew him from somewhere but couldn't quite place it. But then I had that history with the real version of Greg.

I understand why they did it as Santino Fontana was too busy doing a musical to appear in it apparently but it still didn't quite sit right with me, Astin was okay as a replacement but the character felt too different, I know that's kind of the point but I don't know, I still find myself wishing Fontana had returned, for one thing he had a much stronger singing voice.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Sin Agog on December 10, 2018, 05:42:56 AM
I really should try finishing the second season of Monkey one day.

Quite frankly, people who've never watched Monkey don't know that they're born... from an egg on a mountain top.

Quote from: icehaven on December 10, 2018, 10:19:21 AM
Yes this is the ultimate example for me, they really should have got someone as similar to Chaplin as possible as he was perfect. Having to have Matthew be played by someone else at all was bad enough but getting someone absolutely nothing like him in looks and general ambience was a huge mistake.

Yes, yes and absolutely yes.

Quote from: Jittlebags on December 10, 2018, 02:08:05 PM
On the Buses. Arthur wasn't in the last series, and Stan disappeared half way through, shifting the focus onto Jack and Blakey.

Indeed.  I felt that they somewhat lost the subtle nuance of comedic genius and rapier wit in the later series.

Sherman Krank

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on December 10, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
Not comedy, but is Taggart the boldest continuation of a TV franchise ever after the loss of the title character? Or does Blake's Seven take that honour?
Total number of Blake's 7 episodes: 52
Total number of episodes with Blake in: 28

Total number of Taggart episodes: 110
Total number of episodes with Taggart in: 30

Also, Blake's 7 was called Blake's 7 but Taggart was just called Taggart.
Taggart wins.

St_Eddie


neveragain

Quote from: St_Eddie on December 11, 2018, 11:12:53 PM
(Re: On The Buses) I felt that they somewhat lost the subtle nuance of comedic genius and rapist wit in the later series.

gilbertharding

Quote from: BlodwynPig on December 09, 2018, 04:19:45 PM
didn't know Enfield was in series 1 of MBB. I never watched the show - obnoxious characters, but I just skimmed the first episode with Enfield and would like to present this to the jury as evidence of the changing of the televisual guard. Bergerac was nearly finished, TotU dead in the water, a new televisual perspective was emerging - a self-referential,  cool-ironic, hyper-emotional and egotistical televisual period was upon us.

I never watched the first series of Men Behaving Badly either - because it coincided with a period of my life when the only TVs I had access to belonged to my parents - where I was spending less and less time - and my girlfriend (the dynamite sack artist of legend) - who rejected the programme on the basis of the title. By the time I saw an episode, which was after Enfield, my girlfriend and Thames TV had all given up, I remember realising that we were supposed to laugh AT the 'men behaving badly', so that's OK.

This televisual and cultural changing of the guard you mention: it occurred during this period without me noticing, because all my time was spent broadening my horizons in other directions. Happy days indeed.

Panbaams

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on December 10, 2018, 11:08:26 AM
But McInnerny plays a posh idiot (The Scarlet Pimpernel) in one episode of Blackadder 3 and plays a posh idiot (Darling) in Blackadder Goes Forth. I reckon it was availability issues rather than his fear of typecasting. Or the Beeb wanted to bring Hugh Laurie on board as his star was in full ascendance by this point?

Tim McInnerny has said himself that he wanted to avoid being typecasted. (Of course, none of that stops the separate thing about wanting Hugh Laurie to be involved also being true.) The Scarlet Pimpernel's not a posh idiot – he's a master of disguise/James Bond type who plays English and French posh idiots. Darling's miles away from being a posh idiot; he's a self-conscious, middle-class bag of nerves.

Brundle-Fly


Replies From View

South Park managed to survive Kenny's death.

H-O-W-L

Not really comedy but Dark Angel hit the floor like the fucking Hindenberg in Season 2 when they got rid of half the bloody cast for no visible reason at all.

St_Eddie

Ideal survived for a further 6 series, once the original Cartoon Head was recast.  I genuinely think that the original actor was better in the role, which may sound daft, given that he's mute and his face is covered by a mask but I honestly think that the original actor brought a more menacing and believably fucked up gangster vibe through his body language.  Also, the original actor had a balding head (visible from behind the mask), whereas his replacement had a full head of hair.  Bugged the shit out of me, that did.

H-O-W-L

Quote from: St_Eddie on December 13, 2018, 04:07:10 PM
Ideal survived for a further 6 series, once the original Cartoon Head was recast.  I genuinely think that the original actor was better in the role, which may sound daft, given that he's mute and his face is covered by a mask but I honestly think that the original actor brought a more menacing and believably fucked up gangster vibe through his body language.  Also, the original actor had a balding head (visible from behind the mask), whereas his replacement had a full head of hair.  Bugged the shit out of me, that did.

Sort-of-agree although I don't feel the series suffered all that horrendously in the wake of his recasting.

St_Eddie

Quote from: H-O-W-L on December 13, 2018, 06:55:52 PM
Sort-of-agree although I don't feel the series suffered all that horrendously in the wake of his recasting.

Oh, don't get me wrong; neither do I.  I love Ideal.  I just think that the original C.H. was superior.  It's all good though.

kidsick5000

Quote from: Sherman Krank on December 12, 2018, 12:50:09 AM
Taggart wins.

Absolutely. Mark McManus died in 1994! (Didn't realise it was so long ago)
The series carried on until 2010.
That's 11 years with the title character, 16 without.


And I don't recall ever watching a single episode. Was there even a classic episode? It just seemed to be for 25 years.