Production Disasters that Turned Out Okay

[Sin Agog]

Elaine May's directorial oeuvre is a paltry four pictures, but damned if all four aren't each great on different levels, Ishtar very much included. Criterion's putting out Mikey and Nicky on Blu-Ray this month; can't wait.

Mikey and Nicky is one of the best films.  You can see the boom mic in a couple of shots, so technically maybe it's a little ad hoc, but May was friends with Cassavetes, doing little performances for his kids on occasion, and Gut Gott did she bring out the best in him and Falk.  Love that film so much.  Ishtar's pretty good 'n' all, like a cross between a certain kind of Catskills humour and the anarchy of the final act of a particularly out of control John Landis production.

[St_Eddie]

That and, of all things, Drop Dead Fred. He hated that film, and made a point of singling it out more than once as the worst film being shown over Christmas in his RT roundup.

Oh, The Cable Guy was another one that earned Norman's ire.

The Cable Guy was misunderstood and underappreciated upon its release (including by myself) but Drop Dead Fred is fucking abysmal.  Look, I love Rik Mayall as much as the next person but that movie is an atrocity.  I'm convinced that those who love it, are those who grew up watching it and have a pair of nostalgia goggles permanently wielded to their face.

[greenman]

Stalker (1979, Tarkovsky)

Due to a balls up in the film lab, over a year's worth of footage was rendered unusable.  Tarkovsky almost abandoned the film, but ended up hiring a new cinematographer and re-filming almost the entire film.  Unfortunately the film was made in poisonous location and many crew members died a few years later from similar diseases (including Tarkovsky himself).  So not a happy ending all round, but a great film came out of it...

I believe it was the film stock itself that was faulty, the crewing being poisoned has never been officially confirmed although several died of the same cancer, not sure if it was the original filming or the refilming location that's held responsible.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Drop Dead Fred is the thinking man's Fight Club.

[NoSleep]

I believe it was the film stock itself that was faulty, the crewing being poisoned has never been officially confirmed although several died of the same cancer, not sure if it was the original filming or the refilming location that's held responsible.

One of the extras on the DVD is a retrospective "making of" and I think people might have concluded that the location poisoned them all from watching this. I don't think the link is directly stated but the toxicity of the location is mentioned and a fair number of crew (including Tarkovsky) that were prematurely dead at the time of filming the documentary leads one to ponder.

[St_Eddie]

Drop Dead Fred is the thinking man's Fight Club.

Nah, that's a club biscuit.

[greenman]

One of the extras on the DVD is a retrospective "making of" and I think people might have concluded that the location poisoned them all from watching this. I don't think the link is directly stated but the toxicity of the location is mentioned and a fair number of crew (including Tarkovsky) that were prematurely dead at the time of filming the documentary leads one to ponder.

Looking on the net the blame is put on the river they were filming next to being downstream from a chemical plant. That does seem a bit questionable to me as compared to say nosing around a polluted derelict factory or something as surely the river would have had a much worse effect on the locals?

[NoSleep]

There's lots of still water in shot; the area seems flooded, so maybe they flooded it for the film (or it's a place that the river normally floods into during the wet season). Maybe sending pollutants downstream in a river (there must be many rivers, like the Thames, that are not utilised in the food chain) is not as directly life threatening as paddling in that water. I think there are many places (the stagnating canals in Ghent come to mind) where falling into the water requires treatment for toxins before all else.

[kidsick5000]

  I'm convinced that those who love it, are those who grew up watching it and have a pair of nostalgia goggles permanently wielded to their face.

I feel this way about so many 'classic' films that (especially) my generation are responsible for exalting. You can put many 80s films - Goonies, Ghostbusters and Terminator - under that. Fondly remembered because before buying a copy of a film was an oddity, they were recorded off the tv back and then watched over and over.

[greenman]

There's lots of still water in shot; the area seems flooded, so maybe they flooded it for the film (or it's a place that the river normally floods into during the wet season). Maybe sending pollutants downstream in a river (there must be many rivers, like the Thames, that are not utilised in the food chain) is not as directly life threatening as paddling in that water. I think there are many places (the stagnating canals in Ghent come to mind) where falling into the water requires treatment for toxins before all else.

From wiki the sound designers claim was...

"We were shooting near Tallinn in the area around the small river Jägala with a half-functioning hydroelectric station. Up the river was a chemical plant and it poured out poisonous liquids downstream. There is even this shot in Stalker: snow falling in the summer and white foam floating down the river. In fact it was some horrible poison. Many women in our crew got allergic reactions on their faces. Tarkovsky died from cancer of the right bronchial tube. And Tolya Solonitsyn too. That it was all connected to the location shooting for Stalker became clear to me when Larisa Tarkovskaya died from the same illness in Paris."

In terms of changing the director of photography honestly I get the impression that position would mostly be carrying out Tarkovsky's will rather than shaping the film strongly so I'm not sure how much difference that made. Maybe just the action of refilming material allowed for some fine tuning?

[NoSleep]

So it wasn't just polluted river water. White stuff precipitating sounds ominous. That could be in all the water (and reacting in that water to produce poison gases) we see in the film. Sounds like it was the air they were breathing that did for them (gases or particles).

[Mister Six]

Ishtar's pretty good 'n' all, like a cross between a certain kind of Catskills humour and the anarchy of the final act of a particularly out of control John Landis production.

Lots of kids getting killed by helicopters?

[Replies From View]

Now you've mentioned Alien, I must point out that in Alien 3 (better than people say it is) they had to abandon their initial plans of strapping stuff to a whippet because it looked ridiculous.

Still would though, wouldn't you.

[thraxx]

Now you've mentioned Alien, I must point out that in Alien 3 (better than people say it is) they had to abandon their initial plans of strapping stuff to a whippet because it looked ridiculous.

Would have been good if it had stopped and licked its balls for 3 minutes in the middle of the scene where they try to trap.

[Replies From View]

Worse than some people on here say it is though.

I've never seen anyone being unreasonably positive about Alien³ on CaB.  It gets a disproportionate amount a lot of stick for not following the tone of Cameron's sequel, and very few people admitting that its nihilism and bleakness might have their own place in the trilogy or that with Ripley's death it ends the original string of films in a manner that is fitting and brave.

[Phil_A]

I feel this way about so many 'classic' films that (especially) my generation are responsible for exalting. You can put many 80s films - Goonies, Ghostbusters and Terminator - under that. Fondly remembered because before buying a copy of a film was an oddity, they were recorded off the tv back and then watched over and over.

At least two of those are legit good films that stand up to any amount of scrutiny.

If you'd said Superman III on the other hand...there's a dog's dinner of a film that can only be enjoyed through the lens of nostalgia.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I still reckon there will be far fewer films of the last two decades remembered, with their teal and orange and their  gravelly voiced protagonists, I dare say people will look back at these superhero blockbusters and assume they were made for a generation that forgot how to understand facial expressions.

[NoSleep]

I feel this way about so many 'classic' films that (especially) my generation are responsible for exalting. You can put many 80s films - Goonies, Ghostbusters and Terminator - under that. Fondly remembered because before buying a copy of a film was an oddity, they were recorded off the tv back and then watched over and over.

Scratch that for Terminator. I was way past growing up by the time that came out and still think it's the best of the franchise and stands up as a fine film as it's a great bit of story-telling.

[Phil_A]

Now I think about it there are fair few "big" eighties movies I hated as a child but only came to appreciate in adulthood, which is surely the opposite of nostalgia? E.T. for example I found unbearable the first time I saw it, it was all about feelings and the alien was weird and unsettling. Now, a masterpiece that makes me blub. This is probably for a separate thread though.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Scratch that for Terminator. I was way past growing up by the time that came out and still think it's the best of the franchise and stands up as a fine film as it's a great bit of story-telling.

Alien and Terminator were still close enough to the 70's to do brooding menace and got made before cocaine and explosions took over.

[mothman]

I've never seen anyone being unreasonably positive about Alien³ on CaB.  It gets a disproportionate amount a lot of stick for not following the tone of Cameron's sequel, and very few people admitting that its nihilism and bleakness might have their own place in the trilogy or that with Ripley's death it ends the original string of films in a manner that is fitting and brave.

I think it's good. My biggest problem has always been that it's nit easy to tell what's going on half the time. Or who's who.

[NoSleep]

Alien and Terminator were still close enough to the 70's to do brooding menace and got made before cocaine and explosions took over.

Couldn't get closer than being released in the 70's.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah but terminator still has a fair bit of the 70's vibe.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It's 80s as fuck.

[St_Eddie]

It's 80s as fuck.

It absolutely is but to be fair to Sebastian Cobb, I can see a little bit of a 70's vibe to it too.  A residual influence from the previous decade, if you will.