People with massive cultural voids

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

George Ezra and Ezra Thurman show there is a huge market for artists with the name Ezra. This is called the Ezra Pound.

[Jockice]

I am myself becoming one of those middle-aged people who knows nothing about youth culture. You know, the sort of person I thought I'd never become. This became clear early in the century with examples such as talking to a young lass at the gym who told me she was going to see Tiesto, who up till then I'd never heard of in my life and an excruciating conversation with a then-teenage relative during which I claimed to know the original version of a song she'd mentioned. In fact I knew a song with a vaguely-similar title that had absolutely nothing to do with the number she was on about.

They were both a few years ago but now I genuinely haven't a clue. I had a conversation a few months ago with a couple of females in their 20s, both living in Sheffield, who had never heard of Pulp or Jarvis Cocker. Which immediately killed off half my anecdotes.

[Moribunderast]

I've never seen a Star War or Indiana Jones. Some people get very upset when they discover this fact, especially because I've watched thousands of films and am considered a decent go-to for recommendations and whatnot. Whenever people implore me to watch I have to express that I just have no interest. Zero. They feel like films that many love as a nostalgic and vital piece of their childhood and I highly doubt that I'd be impacted as an adult without that nostalgic glow to favour them. And I generally prefer to watch newer or lesser known things, not because I want to be super-cool and swim outta the mainstream maaan but because they feel more worthy of my attention - does the world need another person who's seen Indiana Jones and The Star War Empire?

That being said, I'd never seen any of the Alien films until a few years ago and now the original is one of my all-time favourites. Likewise The Terminator films, which I only watched for the first time a few weeks ago and utterly adored. So it's possible I'm being a complete idiot and should watch those films.

I've also never seen a Woody Allen film, which I realise on a comedy forum may get me canceled. But now he's canceled so I don't get many people haranguing me about that one. That type of ultra-idiosyncratic humour never really appealed to me, outside of Curb. And before any smart-arse jumps in, yes, by "idiosyncratic" I do mean Jewish. And now I too am canceled.

[Twit 2]

I knew someone at school who wanted to do an Eng Lit degree who had never read any books that weren't set texts.

This will be all English Lit students soon, or even now. I know a lot of teenagers and the bright middle class ones that would have once read throughout their teenage years read FUCK ALL. Snapchat has seen to all that. There are exceptions, but generally, welcome to a world where hardly anyone will read books anymore!

[Jockice]

A bus driver once told me I'd been sold a bum steer when I showed him a invalid bus pass.

I had to look it up.

They're called disabled bus passes now of course.

[Jockice]

I've never seen a Star War or Indiana Jones. Some people get very upset when they discover this fact, especially because I've watched thousands of films and am considered a decent go-to for recommendations and whatnot. Whenever people implore me to watch I have to express that I just have no interest. Zero. They feel like films that many love as a nostalgic and vital piece of their childhood and I highly doubt that I'd be impacted as an adult without that nostalgic glow to favour them. And I generally prefer to watch newer or lesser known things, not because I want to be super-cool and swim outta the mainstream maaan but because they feel more worthy of my attention - does the world need another person who's seen Indiana Jones and The Star War Empire?

That being said, I'd never seen any of the Alien films until a few years ago and now the original is one of my all-time favourites. Likewise The Terminator films, which I only watched for the first time a few weeks ago and utterly adored. So it's possible I'm being a complete idiot and should watch those films.

I've also never seen a Woody Allen film, which I realise on a comedy forum may get me canceled. But now he's canceled so I don't get many people haranguing me about that one. That type of ultra-idiosyncratic humour never really appealed to me, outside of Curb. And before any smart-arse jumps in, yes, by "idiosyncratic" I do mean Jewish. And now I too am canceled.

I've never ever seen a James Bond film without Daniel Craig in the starring role.  When people go on about their families all sitting down to watch a Bond film on TV during the festive period, I'd just think:" Well, my family never did.'' We'd have been more likely to watch the Queen's Christmas message, ie not likely at all. I do remember asking my dad to take me to see The Spy Who Loved Me as a child but it never happened. I can't even think why I asked. Possibly someone had mentioned it at school or something.

The only reason I ever saw one was because I told a friend that I'd never seen one so when the first Craig one was released he practically physically dragged me into the cinema. I think he actually paid for the ticket as well. The film was okay from what I remember. And I can't remember much about it. I saw the next one too, with another friend - a female this time - who was equally appalled at my lack of Bond knowledge. Again, it was okay but I'm still not interested in seeing any more, old or new.

As for Star Wars, I've seen the first one. Twice. And the sequel that was released about a decade ago and I haven't the slightest idea about the title of. But I've never seen any of the others. Or Close Encounters. Or Alien. Or ET. Or any Indiana Jones ones. Or Terminator. Or Ghostbusters...

As for Woody Allen, I've seen a few but just find him really creepy (and did even before the alleged revelations) and not funny at all. The ones of his I've seen without him actually in them are passable but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch them,

[Moribunderast]

Not seen a Bond either, except maybe the start of Goldeneye on TV once. I seem to remember Pierce in a plane. Turned it off. Not arsed, mate.

[famethrowa]

I've never seen a Harry Potter or a Lord of the Ring.

[Moribunderast]

I've never seen a Harry Potter or a Lord of the Ring.

Those too!

I'm glad to be among friends. Though now I'm starting to wonder what films I have seen?

[famethrowa]

I do a few shows with a singer who does a few Springsteen songs. However, he always introduces Hungry Heart as being released in 1986. Now seriously, if you think Hungry Heart was released in 1986, then you have miniscule comprehension of not only Springsteen's music but the whole fabric and history of pop music. I'm not a Brooooce fan by any means but I can hear a song and have a fair idea of where it fits in rock history. Usually.

[buttgammon]

I've never seen a Star War or Indiana Jones. Some people get very upset when they discover this fact, especially because I've watched thousands of films and am considered a decent go-to for recommendations and whatnot. Whenever people implore me to watch I have to express that I just have no interest. Zero. They feel like films that many love as a nostalgic and vital piece of their childhood and I highly doubt that I'd be impacted as an adult without that nostalgic glow to favour them. And I generally prefer to watch newer or lesser known things, not because I want to be super-cool and swim outta the mainstream maaan but because they feel more worthy of my attention - does the world need another person who's seen Indiana Jones and The Star War Empire?

Same here. Well, I did see about twenty minutes of one of the 'new' Star Wars films at my uncle's behest, and was shocked at how cheap and nasty it looked. There was weird shaky camerawork like Eastenders or something, it looked horrible. In a way, it did make me curious about the older films, because I was left thinking "surely they're not like this?"

I do a few shows with a singer who does a few Springsteen songs. However, he always introduces Hungry Heart as being released in 1986. Now seriously, if you think Hungry Heart was released in 1986, then you have miniscule comprehension of not only Springsteen's music but the whole fabric and history of pop music. I'm not a Brooooce fan by any means but I can hear a song and have a fair idea of where it fits in rock history. Usually.

Here's another one: before I started going out with my girlfriend - a big Bruce Springsteen fan - the only song of his I'd heard was Born in the USA. He was just never on my radar, and was never big enough in Britain to get into my consciousness via cultural osmosis.

[Jockice]

Those too!

I'm glad to be among friends. Though now I'm starting to wonder what films I have seen?

I've seen one Potter film. While childminding. The one where Dumbledore dies apparently. But I've never read a single word of any of the books. As for Lord Of The Rings, I can vaguely remember my sister promising to buy me The Hobbit for my birthday or Christmas when I was nine or ten. I don't think she did though and I've avoided such stuff ever since.

[NurseNugent]

I can win this thread with either of these 2 stories:


1. At the office I was working in back in 2012, I just read on the internet that Donna Summer had died. I mention this fact to the 20something sat opposite me, who blankly replied that he didn't know who she was, does not know anything about old pop music, and in fact "don't even know what decade The Beatles were in".

2. In a fancy coffee shop a year or 2 ago, I notice "A Day In The Life" playing on the speakers, attached to a laptop. I drone out my opinions about Sgt Pepper to the 20something northerner behind the counter. He is fascinated, and replies: "Who's it by?"

That first one has just reminded me of something. The funeral of George Bush Sr was on the telly and one of the young women in the office didn't know who he was, she's 18.

'He was the President of the USA in the Nineteen Nineties.' I answer. I get a blank look in return.

' Like Donald Trump is now.' I try.

' But why is he still known about now if he was famous all those years ago.'

[nedthemumbler]

and they do keep on at me to watch Peaky Blinders, so..?

As close as drama gets to the MOTD highlights, complete with indie music.

I have never seen any Star Wars, Terminator or Robocop films.  Probably a panel show in that>?

[mothman]

As close as drama gets to the MOTD highlights, complete with indie music.

Really. Probably never will TBH, don't really like British drama shows, especially period ones. My own little cultural void there, I guess - aware of the looks I get when I say I never saw Bodyguard. Though, I really liked The Little Drummer Girl but that also puts me in a minority.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

What I do find baffling is when someone has a professed love or interest for something but doesn't seem to have any actual knowledge of it. My friend a while ago was insistent he was going to write a SF novel. Going to coffee shops first thing every morning to hammer out his 1st draft. Bought himself the very latest Writer's Handbook (which go for around 45 quid) he was that serious. Has he any actual cultural awareness of sci-fi outside a couple of Halo novelisations? Has he fuck. Never read any Vonnegut, Ballard, PKD, Bradbury, HG Wells, or any of the other figureheads of the genre you might care to mention. Not only that, he didn't interested in finding out about them after I gave him a brief run down of their various contributions to the last truly relevant and modern literary genre. 

I suspect this probably go for musicians as well. I imagine there's loads of people in rock bands who have absolutely no clue who Hendrix, Jimmy Page or Led Zepplin are, and couldn't care less either. Though, from listening to interviews with modern rap artists, I get the impression hiphop is even worse for this. There seems to be almost zero interest in finding out about their own cultural heritage. Public Enemy. Run DMC. Wu Tang. Might as well have never existed. I can understand people who've no interest in those little pockets of culture not caring to begin with, but when it's something you're supposed to be interested enough in to want to become a recognised contributor, I do find the lack of historical interest impossible to get my head around.

[Icehaven]

Not exactly a cultural void but still sort of fits in the general jist of the thread: I was in a shop the other day and overheard a brief snippet of conversation between two people who looked about 20,
"Who the fuck is Dizzee Rascal."
"This really old, really bad rapper."
And then when I told some folks at work this they were flabbergasted and said 'But Bonkers was only a few years ago!!" It was a decade ago.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Yes, I don't like how we have to continually revise what's 'old skool'. I have some CDs from the late 90s entitled 'old skool drum n bass'. I fact, those recordings are now ancient. It's Pendulum and Sub Focus who are old skool. And even they've probably atrophied into some pensionable and redundant bracket in the last few years.

[Noonling]

I have never seen any Star Wars, Terminator or Robocop films.  Probably a panel show in that>?

I don't know if you're just saying that, or are unaware of the radio/TV show I've Never Seen Star Wars.

I am also unfamiliar with loads of film, music, and children's shows, half this thread is gobbledegook to me.

The only cultural voids that really stuck in my head were:
1) Someone not knowing who Brad Pitt was. This was back in 2005, so maybe he'd be less familiar now, but I was amazed back then.
2) Someone my age never having heard of John Major. Again this was years ago, maybe 2007 (when we were 18)... So he was the PREVIOUS Prime Minister.

[biggytitbo]

[Bobtoo]

I've seen one each of Star Wars, Terminator, Robocop, Indiana Jones and Bond Films, and of these only Robocop was the first of the series- I didn't even know there was more than one Robocop.

I saw Jurassic Park 2 at the cinema and was so disgusted that I swore I'd never go to the cinema again, which I've largely stuck to.

[olliebean]

Bought himself the very latest Writer's Handbook (which go for around 45 quid) he was that serious.

The fuck? Twelve quid on Amazon, mate. If you (or your mate) paid 45 quid for it, you were ripped off.

[Lemming]

What I do find baffling is when someone has a professed love or interest for something but doesn't seem to have any actual knowledge of it. My friend a while ago was insistent he was going to write a SF novel. Going to coffee shops first thing every morning to hammer out his 1st draft. Bought himself the very latest Writer's Handbook (which go for around 45 quid) he was that serious. Has he any actual cultural awareness of sci-fi outside a couple of Halo novelisations? Has he fuck. Never read any Vonnegut, Ballard, PKD, Bradbury, HG Wells, or any of the other figureheads of the genre you might care to mention. Not only that, he didn't interested in finding out about them after I gave him a brief run down of their various contributions to the last truly relevant and modern literary genre.

Does he have an interest in sci-fi outside literature? I reckon someone proper into sci-fi TV, movies and maybe even a select few video games could be familiar enough with the genre to write a good novel of their own, even without knowledge of classic sci-fi literature.

[Twit 2]

"...instead of being the synaptic co-ordination for the sales brigade; instead of eagerly handing the baton along—it can be intercepted and set quietly on the ground. You can not make the connection. You can cause a Bermuda triangle to settle over the scene of industrial entertainment. It's a pleasure listening for the engines to conk out, where the conversation folds up and pitches into the waves. You might not know what that movie was about, and are indifferent anyway; maybe you can't recognize the punch line to that advertisement; maybe you don't know which team plays which sport; or maybe you couldn't escape knowing the ad lines, or the movie plot, but you do as if. It's a possibility. One can save the capacity of familiarity for what might be genuinely familiar. I wish people would. Let the big ship leave by itself, one rider less."

https://brooklynrail.org/2007/3/art/robert-hullot

Fewer.

[Sin Agog]

What I do find baffling is when someone has a professed love or interest for something but doesn't seem to have any actual knowledge of it. My friend a while ago was insistent he was going to write a SF novel. Going to coffee shops first thing every morning to hammer out his 1st draft. Bought himself the very latest Writer's Handbook (which go for around 45 quid) he was that serious. Has he any actual cultural awareness of sci-fi outside a couple of Halo novelisations? Has he fuck. Never read any Vonnegut, Ballard, PKD, Bradbury, HG Wells, or any of the other figureheads of the genre you might care to mention. Not only that, he didn't interested in finding out about them after I gave him a brief run down of their various contributions to the last truly relevant and modern literary genre. 

I suspect this probably go for musicians as well. I imagine there's loads of people in rock bands who have absolutely no clue who Hendrix, Jimmy Page or Led Zepplin are, and couldn't care less either. Though, from listening to interviews with modern rap artists, I get the impression hiphop is even worse for this. There seems to be almost zero interest in finding out about their own cultural heritage. Public Enemy. Run DMC. Wu Tang. Might as well have never existed. I can understand people who've no interest in those little pockets of culture not caring to begin with, but when it's something you're supposed to be interested enough in to want to become a recognised contributor, I do find the lack of historical interest impossible to get my head around.

I've found from watching interviews and my own creative endeavours that often after making a thing, the last thing in the world you want to do is experience more of it.  You've just spent days obsessively dwelling on the minutiae of that beat, that scene, or that made-up world.  It scratches a similar itch to what makes the fans want to experience it. It also helps sometimes to be a bit solipsistic when you're trying to be creative.  That "I don't want to accidentally be influenced by anyone else" line.  You'd think you'd have to fanatically love a medium in order to make more of it, but I guess that's not how creative channelling necessarily works.  Still, there's no fucking way your mate's sci-fi novel isn't going to be kaka.

EDIT: There's also this weird thing where, even if you're making shit music or what have you, the fact that you're versing yourself in the process makes all other music seem oddly transparent.  You hear the two-note keyboard riffs and cycled drum loops all too clearly.  Luckily, you get over yourself eventually.  Mostly.

[Phil_A]

What I do find baffling is when someone has a professed love or interest for something but doesn't seem to have any actual knowledge of it. My friend a while ago was insistent he was going to write a SF novel. Going to coffee shops first thing every morning to hammer out his 1st draft. Bought himself the very latest Writer's Handbook (which go for around 45 quid) he was that serious. Has he any actual cultural awareness of sci-fi outside a couple of Halo novelisations? Has he fuck. Never read any Vonnegut, Ballard, PKD, Bradbury, HG Wells, or any of the other figureheads of the genre you might care to mention. Not only that, he didn't interested in finding out about them after I gave him a brief run down of their various contributions to the last truly relevant and modern literary genre. 

I suspect this probably go for musicians as well. I imagine there's loads of people in rock bands who have absolutely no clue who Hendrix, Jimmy Page or Led Zepplin are, and couldn't care less either. Though, from listening to interviews with modern rap artists, I get the impression hiphop is even worse for this. There seems to be almost zero interest in finding out about their own cultural heritage. Public Enemy. Run DMC. Wu Tang. Might as well have never existed. I can understand people who've no interest in those little pockets of culture not caring to begin with, but when it's something you're supposed to be interested enough in to want to become a recognised contributor, I do find the lack of historical interest impossible to get my head around.

This ties into an idea I've been struggling to verbalise for a while, which is basically that the collective pop cultural knowledge that most people would've shared at one time just seems to have evaporated in the last couple of decades

Thinking back to when I was still at school twenty-odd years ago, there used to be those kind of common reference points, things everyone would know about. You could make a reference to The Simpsons, Only Fools & Horses, what bands had been on TOTP that week, etc and you were pretty much guaranteed most people would get it. Most of my friendships were formed through those shared interests, and the people I consider friends today are all pretty into the same kind of stuff.

But it feels like it's less and less common now to meet people that share the shame interests as you, especially if your interest don't directly correlate with what is currently "in".

The only TV shows I hear people chat about at work are Strictly, I'm A Celebrity, Bake-Off and X-Factor - those are the common reference points now, not that's there's anything wrong with watching those shows, but it just seems like the cultural discourse has become so limited if that's all we have to talk about.

[Icehaven]

I dunno, a lot of people seem to watch (usually American) TV series on Netflix or the BBC and talk about them. 3 or 4 of my colleagues all seem to watch the same shows (usually dramas, sci-fi or crime/mystery type stuff) although what's different now is that they're often at different points as they're streaming it or watching it on catchup so have to make sure they don't spoiler it.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I knew someone at school who wanted to do an Eng Lit degree who had never read any books that weren't set texts.

I had a girlfriend once who was amazed that I read for pleasure and said she hadn't read a book since she'd left school twelve years prior. I  tried to persuade her that a lot of set texts are pretty dull and there are some amazing books out there but I'm not convinced she believed me.

Mrs SMBH is often surprised I've not heard of some 2000s pop song, but I don't tend to listen to the radio and only listen to indie / alternative music and can't be arsed with mainstream stuff anymore.

[manticore]

This will be all English Lit students soon, or even now. I know a lot of teenagers and the bright middle class ones that would have once read throughout their teenage years read FUCK ALL. Snapchat has seen to all that. There are exceptions, but generally, welcome to a world where hardly anyone will read books anymore!

I'm a trillion times more bothered about this than people not knowing Dallasty. I don't know the difference and I'm from the generation that was supposed to be watching them, similarly the Star Wars and Indiana Jones films.

I also don't mind that there are fewer common reference points from popular culture, though unfortunately I don't think that means people are finding their own reference points, because there is no real culture any more for people to refer to. What is genuinely familiar and not administered by industrial entertainment or mediated by technological devices like the one I'm typing on now?

[Pseudopath]

This will be all English Lit students soon, or even now. I know a lot of teenagers and the bright middle class ones that would have once read throughout their teenage years read FUCK ALL. Snapchat has seen to all that. There are exceptions, but generally, welcome to a world where hardly anyone will read books anymore!

I got a first in English Lit back in 1999 and have only read three books* since despite being an avid reader as a kid. I think that for some people the process of learning how to analyse literature somehow ruins the magic (a bit like that old aphorism about explaining a joke being like dissecting a frog).

^{* Interestingly, they were all non-fiction (Frank Skinner's eponymous autobiography, Back Story by David Mitchell and Germania by Simon Winder).}