Author Topic: The Day Shall Come  (Read 136868 times)

Thomas

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #330 on: October 13, 2019, 09:14:50 PM »
All this retrospective discussion of Four Lions has reminded me how much I love that film. It has a sort of low-key, nocturnal, guerilla feel that I also associate with 28 Days Later - as though it's not some big film with a release and an audience, but something privately seen. The inverse, dark version of 'cosy'. I feel it should have a more prevalent place as a pop culture point of reference. It is occasionally mentioned in transcripts whenever real-life clumsy terrorists go to trial.

I'm still yet to see The Day Shall Come, but I've watched - and would thoroughly recommend - the documentary T(ERROR), if you've not already seen it. A uniquely positioned insight into the way the FBI conduct these stings. I think it's currently on UK Netflix.

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #331 on: October 13, 2019, 09:18:47 PM »
That's (T)ERROR, btw, and yes it is on UK Netflix.

Thomas

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #332 on: October 13, 2019, 09:20:05 PM »
Oops, my mistake (error).

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #333 on: October 14, 2019, 08:06:19 PM »
Just back from seeing it. Thought it was great.
Well done everyone.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #334 on: October 14, 2019, 11:13:54 PM »
I've just got back from seeing this and liked it but I didn't think it was as absorbing as Four Lions. The scenes with the FBI seemed to undermine the tension built during the scenes with the farmers, and I found that a bit distracting.

This, basically:

Watched it last night, loved 4 Lions felt this did not translate quite the same to Miami (kept thinking about Only Fools & Horses Miami Twice while watching it)  what works well here didnt quite translate to America.


Kayvan Novak  & The Nazis were underused they could have done much much more.
Highlights 
Marchánt Davis & Danielle Brooks perfect for the roles

Low points
Anna Kendrick
Denis O'Hare   everytime they were on screen I felt they were miscast 
They needed heavy weights like Kevin Spacey and Gillian Anderson to give more weight to the FBI (although not Spacey for obvious reasons)

muddybug

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #335 on: October 15, 2019, 09:38:44 AM »
https://www.bigissue.com/culture/film-tv-radio/chris-morris-interview-its-bonanza-time-for-bad-behaviour/

Quote
As he talks, Morris is harassed by a hoverfly, attracted by his yellow cycling jacket. At least, it looks like a hoverfly. It could be a state-of-the-art mini FBI drone.

“Considering they’re meant to look like wasps, they fly in such a different way,” says Morris, with authority. “Sorry, if you cycle for six miles through rush-hour traffic, you’re going to be babbling awful shit. It is early enough in the morning for zoology leakage to come through.”

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #336 on: October 15, 2019, 02:55:59 PM »
I see Chris will be at a Q&A for a screening at The Watershed in Bristol this Friday -
https://www.watershed.co.uk/whatson/9970/the-day-shall-come/

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #337 on: October 16, 2019, 03:38:06 AM »
Hah, site of the first-ever CaB meet!

(Um no, maybe the second, actually.  No longer sure.  Definitely the first one in Bristol though.)

Mister Six

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #338 on: October 16, 2019, 04:31:13 AM »
Just watched this and thought it was... all right. Fine. Intermittently hilarious, but nowhere near the level of Four Lions.

I think it was let down a bit by its relentless screwball wackiness - no matter how daffy the lads in Four Lions were, Omar and his wife provided a realistic ballast that allowed for proper drama. This, on the other hand, was a film populated almost entirely by Faisals and Barrys (except for Shahbazz's wife, but she was barely in it after the first act) and so it all felt quite lightweight and disposable up until the ending, which in turn felt entirely unearned.

I know this is a Chris Morris Film that has An Important Message, but I think an out-of-left-field happy(ish) ending would have suited the flick more, given the goofiness of the first hour and 20 minutes. As it was, the "15 years for aiding a terrorist organisation" card landed like a lead balloon rather than working as a a bit of blackly comic punctuation, and actually came across as a bit exploitative, even though I'm sure it wasn't intended as such.


EDIT: Just reading that Morris article from a couple of pages ago now. It, and all of the people in it, are substantially funnier and more interesting than this film.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 04:49:44 AM by Mister Six »

BlodwynPig

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #339 on: October 16, 2019, 07:20:53 AM »
2 days to see this on big screen but absolutely have no desire. I think its the faces of the two main FBI agents. Weasels

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #340 on: October 16, 2019, 02:16:40 PM »
2 days to see this on big screen but absolutely have no desire. I think its the faces of the two main FBI agents. Weasels

The faces of the FBI agents are entirely in keeping with their characters. They are shallow careerists. Ironically, these shallow characters lack any real depth, which is a problem for maintaining interest. I like my shallow characters more like Jonattan Yeah? or Doug Rocket.

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #341 on: October 16, 2019, 09:45:53 PM »
Just seen the film (6/10).

Chris Morris' interview with John Snow was probably as valuable a contribution to culture as that disappointingly tepid and derivative film (which was, in the wider non-Morris context, reasonably diverting and occasionally tittersome)

The whole 'wisecracking guys in charge' strain of millennial comedy is starting to go really stale. I hope Morris goes nowhere near another project of this kind, even if its his own.

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #342 on: October 17, 2019, 03:24:28 PM »
Strange one this. For half an hour it's more or less a comedy but the jokes all fall flat. It becomes a lot more interesting as it becomes more serious but it seemed to abruptly end as I was getting into it. The screening I went to was pretty much silent throughout and there were a few walkouts.

I felt the same way about Four Lions when I first saw it, though, so time might be kind to it.

Also, without having heard the Chris Morris interviews beforehand, the film would feel really inconsequential.

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #343 on: October 17, 2019, 10:11:31 PM »
Quote
Also, without having heard the Chris Morris interviews beforehand, the film would feel really inconsequential.

Good point

Pepotamo1985

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #344 on: October 18, 2019, 10:40:04 AM »
Just got back from this, muy spoilers ahoy!

I found this very, very confusing, had absolutely no idea what Morris was going for for most of the duration. Tonally, it was utterly discordant and baffling. Were we meant to feel sympathy, or even pity, for Moses et al? Or were they surreal simpletons we were meant to laugh at? Because while they were tragic but endearing characters on one level (helped by an exceptionally good performance from Davis) - clearly mentally ill unfortunates with delusional beliefs, yet harmless if not mildly benevolent - they all too often seemed to be the butt of (totally unfunny) jokes purely at their expense, which certainly weren't tragicomic. In fact, a lot of the gags seemed to be plucked out of an extremely shitty, tame late-period Adam Sandler movie at points - whacky, lowest-common-denominator, slapstick. Was shocked we didn't get any set pieces involving farts and/or plops at any point.

In fact, the bulk of the film was so infantile and outright silly on every level I think it trivialised and undermined the very important points Morris was apparently trying to make - and when they came, they were almost invariably brutally sledgehammered and on-the-nose. The FBI lot, while they had their moments, were way too irreverent and grotesque to take seriously - they would've been far more threatening, interesting and true to life of course, if they weren't such pantomime villains. It was the conspiracy theorist's view of how these organisations work - it's much more terrifying to consider they don't sit in smoke-filled rooms dreaming up diabolical ways to get promoted and make people's lives miserable, yet still end up doing so, in the most horrific manner imaginable (Morris seems to have made this exact point in his C4 interview!). So many narrative threads would've been immeasurably better if the script wasn't so aggressively overt - for instance, the whole scene where "shooting the black dude" is openly mooted as a way of getting rid of the mess they'd created is just pure artless ineptitude. It'd already been amply established those in authority wish to avoid scandals and boost their careers - even the Bureau chief saying "this can work itself out" and attempting to prevent Kendrick's character from getting to Moses while he's surrounded by gunmen would've made the same point, 100x better and more powerfully. All their procedural jockeying and politicking was pretty underwhelming and ineffectual too - Morris and Armstrong have both highlighted the absurdity of government institutions and bureaucracy far better, and more savagely, in the past.

Technically, this was an absolute mess. The pacing was abysmal, plot comprehensively undercooked, most characters underwritten, underdeveloped and inconsistent. It somehow managed the feat of being vanishingly thin and hopelessly rushed throughout yet frequently deflatingly tedious. Kendrick goes from determined to save Moses from being set up to keen to do him in the blink of an eye, just because the dickhead fake sheikh ups the ante with nukes to increase his payout - why did male FBI guy not demand they go after him in the face of her protestations instead? There was no one to root for or engage with, and nothing to latch onto or care about. I sense this was deliberate as well - the characters have little agency and no real quest, precisely because Morris wants to underline how actual victims of FBI stings are manipulated and directed by forces and individuals they don't control, understand or even perceive. But given how low key and unengaging proceedings are, this just comes off as shoddy writing.

Likewise, the director surely intended for the twee whimsy of the initial three quarters to contrast jarringly with the brutal seriousness of the ending - but because it was difficult care about anyone or anything onscreen it just felt cynical and manipulative.

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #345 on: October 18, 2019, 01:39:09 PM »
We were meant to be rooting for the gang and they were presented endearingly. The end scene was tragic, but sadly it was so sloppy that I felt sorry that the characters weren't directed well enough for that tragedy to really hit home. Or even the comedy to hit home. It was the film equivalent of a diarrhoea attack.

I don't think they established Moses mental illness well. I think it was deliberate to drip feed his hallucinations and paranoia but ultimately he was a contradictory character whose actions weren't properly justified by the plotting or character work.

It's weird these days how the general standard of comedy is so low, and yet a multitude of sins can be concealed by production values, performances and sassy dialogue that it ends up feeling 'yeah ok' on some level rather than 'fuck me what was that utter mess'

Pepotamo1985

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #346 on: October 18, 2019, 02:56:04 PM »
We were meant to be rooting for the gang and they were presented endearingly.

This is difficult though, because they're so passive - they're not on a journey, they're not doing much of anything, so there's nothing to follow. As I say, them being presented as unwitting actors being manipulated and contorted by darker forces around them was clearly intentional - and indeed the 'point' - but it's just not done very well. The 'witting fool' and/or 'unconscious accomplice' trope is pretty common in literature and film - it's not a difficult thing to do.

The end scene was tragic, but sadly it was so sloppy that I felt sorry that the characters weren't directed well enough for that tragedy to really hit home.

Yes, precisely - there's a very, very palpable and abrupt break in tone once Moses gets zip-tied, which I almost felt physically. When he's pointing the fake bazooka at Hendrick it's still pantomime silliness, but once the arrest happens it's just pure frenetic horror, with the kid getting snatched away etc. This was well done, but it still felt underwhelming and undeserved given what had preceded it.

My take would be Morris started with an ending and fell short thinking up ways to get there - hence the film's oxymoronical frenzied yet meandering nature.

Spent some time thinking today whether the studio meddled in the film, or Morris was specifically trying to cater to a US audience - Novak's character felt deliberately designed to make idiot Americans laugh, and utterly beneath something would typically do, so there's obviously a reason for that.

I also note many government agencies are credited at the end, which seemed strange given how farcically evil they're presented.

Shaky

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #347 on: October 18, 2019, 03:34:23 PM »
I'm of the belief that Morris maybe isn't cut out to be a director. He certainly hasn't taken to it like Iannucci and it's been, what, 19 years since Jam? I thought some bits of TDSC were well framed but he's lacking in many of other, very basic areas. A lot of shots reminded me of My Wrongs and Nathan Barley as if there's been no development since then.

muddybug

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #348 on: October 18, 2019, 04:28:23 PM »
Also, without having heard the Chris Morris interviews beforehand, the film would feel really inconsequential.

In the 2nd part of the Adam Buxton podcast, Chris mentioned the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood trailer "as inconsequential as the film seems to be."

Unfortunately, I feel the same way about Chris's new film.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #349 on: October 18, 2019, 05:56:50 PM »
Morris, in the Buxton podcast and elsewhere recently, has admitted that his brain isn't naturally suited to structured storytelling. You only have to listen to the man to realise that, as fiercely intelligent though he is, his thought processes fizz in all directions. He's incredibly rigorous when it comes to research, but struggles when it comes to coalescing that research into a streamlined final product.

He managed it with Four Lions, but that's possibly because he had a deeper sense of who those characters were and what he wanted to say. He obviously knew what he wanted to say with TDSC too, but it feels like his desire to make a powerful point in this case overshadowed all the other elements you need to make a good film: character development, plot development, structure, pacing etc.

I agree that, without the Morris interviews we've read and listened to recently, the film wouldn't make much sense.

Chris Morris is a brilliant comedian, one of the greatest we've ever been lucky enough to have, but his genius has always found its best expression in sketches linked by furiously moral, appalled, absurd and depressive themes.

I'm not suggesting that he should go back to making The Day Today, Brass Eye and Blue Jam, of course not, but I think he could still create something incredible on TV or radio. They're his natural mediums, that's where his comic brain works best.

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #350 on: October 18, 2019, 06:08:22 PM »
Well, for anyone who's not yet been completely put off the film / CM by this thread, there's another couple of London Q&As coming up:

https://ticketing.picturehouses.com/Ticketing/visSelectTickets.aspx?cinemacode=010&txtSessionId=52347&visLang=1  (that's Monday, the evening showing, if the link isn't permanent)
https://www.olympiccinema.co.uk/film/The-Day-Shall-Come-Q&A

both of which I found out about by accident rather than because the remarkably shoddy TDSC publicity / social media people made any effort to plug them.  So tickets still available for both at present.  The Hackney one is weird - there was a tweet about it yesterday evening, but it then seems to have been deleted shortly afterwards - so if it turns out not to have a Q&A after all, please don't say I didn't warn you.

Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #351 on: October 18, 2019, 06:10:05 PM »
In the 2nd part of the Adam Buxton podcast, Chris mentioned the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood trailer "as inconsequential as the film seems to be."

Unfortunately, I feel the same way about Chris's new film.
I did think it was interesting that he said when he'd watched his own film with the sound down, he'd felt it hadn't worked properly!

muddybug

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #352 on: October 19, 2019, 12:47:30 AM »
I'm not suggesting that he should go back to making The Day Today, Brass Eye and Blue Jam, of course not, but I think he could still create something incredible on TV or radio. They're his natural mediums, that's where his comic brain works best.

I'd love to see him go back to his roots and do radio. Hell, I would kill just to hear him play his choice of music and ramble about it, but I'm sure in his mind that's a "been there, done that" situation.

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #353 on: October 19, 2019, 01:52:30 PM »
I strongly believe he should embark on another project that ties together disparate ideas in sketch form, given this one idea was barely adequate to sustain a whole film and heavily leaned on themes already explored in a project from 10 fucking years ago.

Obviously he won't do anything like that.

As for the comments about his direction, Four Lions demonstrates he can do it. It is not a masterpiece of visual direction but it was a well put together film that speaks to the direction it received.

Mister Six

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #354 on: October 19, 2019, 05:58:50 PM »
This is difficult though, because they're so passive - they're not on a journey, they're not doing much of anything, so there's nothing to follow. As I say, them being presented as unwitting actors being manipulated and contorted by darker forces around them was clearly intentional - and indeed the 'point' - but it's just not done very well. The 'witting fool' and/or 'unconscious accomplice' trope is pretty common in literature and film - it's not a difficult thing to do.

It feels so weird that the fella's recruitment in the corner shop happens pretty much as a montage. There should surely be scenes of Shahbazz's daily life, showing why his wife is so proud of him, how he convinces people to join his little cult etc. But the script (or at least the edit) whizzes past all that because it wants to get to the crrrrrrazy FBI maneouvering, even though all of that is hollow and meaningless without properly establishing who everyone is and why we should care.

It's like Morris thought the last 20 minutes of capering around the marathon in Four Lions was the best bit of that film.

Sony Walkman Prophecies

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #355 on: October 20, 2019, 11:23:38 PM »
I honestly dont think Morris' style suits naturalistic narrative comedy. His greatest strength is bizarre and contorted wordplay, which as I said before, sits ill at ease with the overall naturalistic tone he's aimed for in his work since Nathan Barley.

In contrast, his radio shows, his early tv shows, even blue jam, all occupy a much more heightened reality, where the ridiculous charachters deliver his dialogue much more believably.

Pretty much. Morris is our Marty Feldman - a brilliant small screen comic convinced that none of it really counts unless it can be copy & pasted into a Hollywood script. It’s sad and indicative of a lack of faith in good ideas to convince the audience on their own terms. Then again, I’m not entirely convinced any of this would work on the box either. It all seems a bit too dated to be topical, let alone ‘edgy’.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #356 on: October 21, 2019, 03:19:05 PM »
It all seems a bit too dated to be topical, let alone ‘edgy’.

Huh? This particular behaviour of the FBI is news to me, and most other people, I would wager. Your idea of 'edgy' is not what this film lacked either.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #357 on: October 21, 2019, 04:41:11 PM »
Huh? This particular behaviour of the FBI is news to me, and most other people, I would wager. Your idea of 'edgy' is not what this film lacked either.

Exactly. Of all the criticisms you could level at this film, being out of date isn't one of them. It's urgently topical. Morris' recent interviews are more interesting and useful than the film itself, but I'm glad he's brought this issue to wider attention.

Pretty much. Morris is our Marty Feldman - a brilliant small screen comic convinced that none of it really counts unless it can be copy & pasted into a Hollywood script.

That's bollocks too. Feldman was a talented British TV comic who fancied himself as the next Buster Keaton or Charlie Chaplin, hence why he moved to Hollywood to make starring vehicles for himself.

Morris has directed two films in ten years. The first one was basically a gritty British social-realist film with absurdist elements. His second effort, while relatively conventional by Morris' usual standards, is not in any way, shape or form a crowd-pleasing Hollywood film.

TDSC is a flawed piece of work, it's disappointing, but you're criticising it for the wrong reasons.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:52:27 PM by Ballad of Ballard Berkley »

mugwump ji sum

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #358 on: October 21, 2019, 05:11:55 PM »
I don't think they established Moses mental illness well. I think it was deliberate to drip feed his hallucinations and paranoia but ultimately he was a contradictory character whose actions weren't properly justified by the plotting or character work.

I guess that the mental illness aspect was important for Morris because fringe movements can often attract people who are not so level headed and that's maybe a type of person the FBI would look to exploit. Also I suppose it had comedic potential for him too.

This interview with Marchánt Davis sheds light on Moses' mental illness:
https://youtu.be/l3zyS5nXl5c
(Around the 10:30 mark)

He says that while he's obviously a huge admirer of Morris he wasn't entirely sure about the introduction of the more cartoonish aspects of mental illness to the character and that as far as he's concerned Moses is not mentally ill, he's a visionary.

Whatever the view of the overall film, reviews I've seen are unanimous that his performance is a high point, and I think his take on the character is a part of this.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 05:53:11 PM by mugwump ji sum »

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: The Day Shall Come
« Reply #359 on: October 21, 2019, 05:39:31 PM »
Marchant is the best thing about the film by far.

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