Preferred their earlier work

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

Some comedians/writers mature in to more thoughtful etc. artists. We are supposed to commend them on their progress. But not all of them are better that way.

Personally I will always prefer early Rob Newman, in the MWE era, to the heavily political Robert Newman, who is essentially his Ben Elton impersonation played sincerely. The last good work he did was part of In Pieces, where he provided the only laughs whilst Baddiel couldn't decide if comedy was now beneath him; within a few years David had decided he wanted to be funny after all, but Rob lost it completely.

I'm also coming to think that Stewart Lee should have just stopped after 1 series by himself, and what he has grown in to is completely insufferable. Maybe him and Herring should have stopped performing entirely after Fist Of Fun 2.

[neveragain]

Stephen Fry.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Yes, Rob Newman's Shaw Taylor impression, and his scathing, satirical comments about Mark Coardener out of Rides were probably the apotheosis of his career.  I fucking loved seeing him on my telly doing all that stuff like a fucking 29 year old undergraduate.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Some comedians/writers mature in to more thoughtful etc. artists. We are supposed to commend them on their progress. But not all of them are better that way.

Personally I will always prefer early Rob Newman, in the MWE era, to the heavily political Robert Newman, who is essentially his Ben Elton impersonation played sincerely. The last good work he did was part of In Pieces, where he provided the only laughs whilst Baddiel couldn't decide if comedy was now beneath him; within a few years David had decided he wanted to be funny after all, but Rob lost it completely.

I'm also coming to think that Stewart Lee should have just stopped after 1 series by himself, and what he has grown in to is completely insufferable. Maybe him and Herring should have stopped performing entirely after Fist Of Fun 2.

I love History Of Oil but wouldn't have a problem is Newman had stopped then. I disagree with you about Stewart Lee though, TMWRNJ's better than Fist of Fun imho, and I love the first three series of Comedy Vehicle, four has some gems but some dodgy episodes so he could have quit after the third I guess.

[Bennett Brauer]

Some oh-so-interesting opinions on Rob Newman's early stuff in this thread. It has been a while since I've read anything quite so fascinating. I really love this forum.

[mojo filters]

I love the first three series of Comedy Vehicle, four has some gems but some dodgy episodes so he could have quit after the third I guess.

Much as I love all of Comedy Vehicle, I think it's clear as the seasons progress you see Stewart Lee ever further refining his comedic craft for the best representation on television. From that perspective he clearly just gets better and better.

I'll admit I wouldn't want to introduce a newcomer via season 4, but isn't that exactly how he wants it anyways?

I agree that season 4 was not perfect, but what an artistic feat - for example getting a whole episode on precious BBC air about the placement of specific spilled foodstuffs on a once-lauded prime time BBC radio news editor, now in decline for all to read in the Sunday broadsheets.

I'd have no compunction about introducing an uninitiated yet comedy-savvy person to even the deepest end of season 3 (eg the Crapstone / Shitterton phone call) where he perhaps manages to balance and contrast the best of good conventional stand-up with a dualling deconstruction of the art.

I think it's easy to find flaws in season 4. However just like I prefer Carpet Remnant World to Content Provider, I appreciate the latter because it pushed the art forwards - which has been a trademark of every long-form show he's done since 90's Comedian / Jerry Springer, which bodes well for the future.

Much as I enjoy and appreciate the first two Comedy Vehicle seasons, in retrospect you can see the malignant influence of television production convention getting in the way of the funniest material.

The last episode of season 2 deserves a very honorable mention (Democracy?) as it was a great precursor to subverting the format. Maintaining the conventional stand-up yet sitting down, plus further using the guitar to satirise the obvious suspects, was merely the start.

The ability to transition from great generic (and now dated) political jokes to creating a brilliant riff on a callback to more "reciepts" material, was masterfully executed and set the standard for the next two seasons.

By contrast I find both Fist Of Fun and TMWRNJ only hinted at the brilliance to come. There were amazing moments, but not the consistency that progressed in the post-Jerry Springer era.

Whilst season 4 was probably a good place to stop for this particular vehicle, surely better to go out on a critically acclaimed high?

[mojo filters]

Well hark at me, the self-appointed SLCV expert. Turns out I was conflating episode 4 and episode 6 of season 2!

...if it was only me and broadsheet journalists, in a self-congratulatory loop.

[Tony Yeboah]

Bill Cosby
John Cleese
Steve Martin
Rowan Atkinson
Eddie Murphy
Ben Elton
Lee Evans
Peter Kay
Ricky Gervais

[magval]

Great posts, Mojo. Agree totally.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Much as I love all of Comedy Vehicle, I think it's clear as the seasons progress you see Stewart Lee ever further refining his comedic craft for the best representation on television. From that perspective he clearly just gets better and better.

I'll admit I wouldn't want to introduce a newcomer via season 4, but isn't that exactly how he wants it anyways?

I agree that season 4 was not perfect, but what an artistic feat - for example getting a whole episode on precious BBC air about the placement of specific spilled foodstuffs on a once-lauded prime time BBC radio news editor, now in decline for all to read in the Sunday broadsheets.

I'd have no compunction about introducing an uninitiated yet comedy-savvy person to even the deepest end of season 3 (eg the Crapstone / Shitterton phone call) where he perhaps manages to balance and contrast the best of good conventional stand-up with a dualling deconstruction of the art.

I think it's easy to find flaws in season 4. However just like I prefer Carpet Remnant World to Content Provider, I appreciate the latter because it pushed the art forwards - which has been a trademark of every long-form show he's done since 90's Comedian / Jerry Springer, which bodes well for the future.

Much as I enjoy and appreciate the first two Comedy Vehicle seasons, in retrospect you can see the malignant influence of television production convention getting in the way of the funniest material.

The last episode of season 2 deserves a very honorable mention (Democracy?) as it was a great precursor to subverting the format. Maintaining the conventional stand-up yet sitting down, plus further using the guitar to satirise the obvious suspects, was merely the start.

The ability to transition from great generic (and now dated) political jokes to creating a brilliant riff on a callback to more "reciepts" material, was masterfully executed and set the standard for the next two seasons.

By contrast I find both Fist Of Fun and TMWRNJ only hinted at the brilliance to come. There were amazing moments, but not the consistency that progressed in the post-Jerry Springer era.

Whilst season 4 was probably a good place to stop for this particular vehicle, surely better to go out on a critically acclaimed high?

You make some great points there and I do pretty much agree with all of them. I like TMWRNJ perhaps a bit more than you because it's so daft, but I'd agree that it's not as consistent and that Lee's best work came after he split with Herring.

[lankyguy95]

Bill Cosby
John Cleese
Steve Martin
Rowan Atkinson
Eddie Murphy
Ben Elton
Lee Evans
Peter Kay
Ricky Gervais

Yeah, all these.

I guess Peter Cook fits here.
Harry Hill
Paul Merton

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

Yes, Rob Newman's Shaw Taylor impression, and his scathing, satirical comments about Mark Coardener out of Rides were probably the apotheosis of his career.  I fucking loved seeing him on my telly doing all that stuff like a fucking 29 year old undergraduate.

I'd rather have that than a middle-aged lecturer droning about the World Bank.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Graham Linehan obviously. Even before he came down with the old transmania. I was watching an episode of The IT Crowd (series 2 episode 1) last night and it was just a laugh void. Even stuff that should be right up my street (long take of Chris Morris eating an apple) was just paced and shot in a way that stripped out all the laughs. Terrible show.

For balance, here's the earlier stuff which I preferred: The Day Today, The Fast Show, Father Ted, Big Train, Coogan's Run, I'm Alan Partridge, Brass Eye, Black Books, Garth Marenghi's Dark Place.

[bgmnts]

Was going to post Linehan amd I didn't really like any of his earlier work.

Louis C.K probably counts too.

[Jockice]

Jerry Sadowitz before he sold out.

[DrGreggles]

Graham Linehan obviously. Even before he came down with the old transmania. I was watching an episode of The IT Crowd (series 2 episode 1) last night and it was just a laugh void. Even stuff that should be right up my street (long take of Chris Morris eating an apple) was just paced and shot in a way that stripped out all the laughs. Terrible show.

And that's probably the best episode!

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

I feel maybe it's my fault for being a big thick thicko but I thought each season of Comedy Vehicle was less funny than the previous one. 

I feel like the stand-up shows after stand up comedian/41st/90s have all been less funny as well.

One of the things I remember most about his book is him criticising his own stuff in there for "not having a through line" and just being a bunch of random bits, and I thought "Christ, I wish your new shows didn't have a through line".

It's not just because I don't like through-liney, crafted hour long comedy shows that artfully join together, because I bloody LOVE lots of shows like that by other comedians (ironically most of them clearly owe a debt of gratitude to him for his obvious influence on them). 

I think Stu just invests more intellectual energy in trying to subvert and evolve the very essence of what comedy "is" with his shows these days (a very noble and admirable endeavour), then the young whippersnapper comics basically nick those ideas, and thus still have the energy left to actually think of some jokes.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I feel maybe it's my fault for being a big thick thicko but I thought each season of Comedy Vehicle was less funny than the previous one. 

I feel like the stand-up shows after stand up comedian/41st/90s have all been less funny as well.

One of the things I remember most about his book is him criticising his own stuff in there for "not having a through line" and just being a bunch of random bits, and I thought "Christ, I wish your new shows didn't have a through line".

It's not just because I don't like through-liney, crafted hour long comedy shows that artfully join together, because I bloody LOVE lots of shows like that by other comedians (ironically most of them clearly owe a debt of gratitude to him for his obvious influence on them). 

I think Stu just invests more intellectual energy in trying to subvert and evolve the very essence of what comedy "is" with his shows these days (a very noble and admirable endeavour), then the young whippersnapper comics basically nick those ideas, and thus still have the energy left to actually think of some jokes.

His later shows are a very nuanced form of clown.

[up_the_hampipe]

Graham Linehan obviously. Even before he came down with the old transmania. I was watching an episode of The IT Crowd (series 2 episode 1) last night and it was just a laugh void. Even stuff that should be right up my street (long take of Chris Morris eating an apple) was just paced and shot in a way that stripped out all the laughs. Terrible show.

That's episode 2. Episode 1 is where they go to see the musical and it's pretty great.

[Wet Blanket]

One of the things I remember most about his book is him criticising his own stuff in there for "not having a through line" and just being a bunch of random bits, and I thought "Christ, I wish your new shows didn't have a through line".

This, but for Kitson. I admire the craft of his later stuff but I liked the more freeform nature of his earlier shows. Also I liked it better when it was easy to buy tickets to see him.

[lankyguy95]

I think Kitson's brilliance is more evident when he's looser. It's certainly what made me a fan of his in the first place. I keep meaning to see him compere a benefit night or try out new material - there's no one funnier in a spontaneous setting.

[DrGreggles]

I think Kitson's brilliance is more evident when he's looser. It's certainly what made me a fan of his in the first place. I keep meaning to see him compere a benefit night or try out new material - there's no one funnier in a spontaneous setting.

Saw him as compere at a charity night 3 months back. Fucking amazing.
Can't help the acts who then come on, can it.