Clip from Talking Funny suddenly causes Twitter storm

[Large Noise]

McVities stolen from their home countries, used as slave labour, frequently raped and abused by their captors, and now live with a legacy of structural oppression and inequality that lasts even beyond their ostensible emancipation, the word 'biscuit' serving as a chilling reminder of a bloody and brutal history and how worthless they were once considered to be by the country they live in

Don't really think you should be joking about that mate

[MuteBanana]

The idea that Chris Rock in a room with Ricky Gervais and Louis CK would be seeking to moderate the discussion is pretty funny. Just not going to happen is it.

And if people take offence, why at Chris Rock? The others are grown up comedians. Maybe Rock felt they were allowed to say what they wanted and that any backlash is something they'd have to personally deal with.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Don't really think you should be joking about that mate

it's not supposed to be funny mate, im (rather laboriously) demonstrating a point

[up_the_hampipe]

McVities stolen from their home countries, used as slave labour, frequently raped and abused by their captors, and now live with a legacy of structural oppression and inequality that lasts even beyond their ostensible emancipation, the word 'biscuit' serving as a chilling reminder of a bloody and brutal history and how worthless they were once considered to be by the country they live in

You're thinking of bourbons.

[up_the_hampipe]

And if people take offence, why at Chris Rock? The others are grown up comedians. Maybe Rock felt they were allowed to say what they wanted and that any backlash is something they'd have to personally deal with.

Certain members of the black twitter community believe that he is being an "Uncle Tom" by laughing along with and approving of a white guy saying the N word, instead of establishing that it is completely inappropriate. It's a common belief that a black person has a duty to "check" white people when they use that. I remember Katt Williams saying that despite not really caring about Michael Richards using the N word on stage, he would "have to" punch him in the face if he ever saw him in person.

[Sin Agog]

To a dyed in the wool comedian, Funny is a deity, and their instinct is to sacrifice their personal moral code, their public perception, the equanimity of the audience to the Joke Almighty.  Like Patrice O'Neal once said, good Jokes and bad Jokes both come from the same place.  I've seen so many interviews with comedians lately where they look totally at sea.  They're being told that their God is a vengeful God who hurts people, even though everything in their nature tells them to make the Joke because it's Funny, whatever words might be in it.  That's not necessarily bad- people should be conscientious and spare a thought for their audience- but comedians should be allowed to call sanctuary around other comedians.  When they're with other people who have that exact same instinct, they should be allowed to let those Jokes come fast and loose. They're not the same as us.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

What could be a McVities related tragedy?

Jack "The Hat" McVitie got shot, you insensitive cunt.

[Cloud]

It is an abhorrent word with a terrible past and is still currently used in the main by racists and cunts

Actually if there are any Americans on here (which there probably are, it's not like they're banned), particularly female, cunt is an extremely offensive term to them.  It's seen as a word drenched in a long history of misogyny, treating women as little more than a vagina, and had often used for the purpose of belittling them and 'reminding them' that that's 'all they are'.  If you're going to censor one word that might offend someone due to the context of historic abuse that still lingers (but is more systematic and less-overt nowadays), does it make a lot of sense to do it while using a word that might offend someone else due to the context of historic abuse that still lingers (but is more systematic and less-overt nowadays)?


(I lean towards non-censorship or perhaps an optional word censor one can turn on in settings if easily offended  -  I think the system of "if you're easily offended, please mute / look away now" that was used on TV is a pretty decent one - just think whatever policy applies should be consistent)

[Thursday]

To a dyed in the wool comedian, Funny is a deity, and their instinct is to sacrifice their personal moral code, their public perception, the equanimity of the audience to the Joke Almighty.  Like Patrice O'Neal once said, good Jokes and bad Jokes both come from the same place.  I've seen so many interviews with comedians lately where they look totally at sea.  They're being told that their God is a vengeful God who hurts people, even though everything in their nature tells them to make the Joke because it's Funny, whatever words might be in it.  That's not necessarily bad- people should be conscientious and spare a thought for their audience- but comedians should be allowed to call sanctuary around other comedians.  When they're with other people who have that exact same instinct, they should be allowed to let those Jokes come fast and loose. They're not the same as us.

Obviously being on CaB I take comedy more seriously as an artform than most, but I think this attitude might be part of the problem. Comedians talking as if the role of comedian is some sacred, untouchable thing.

I think this might be podcasts and particularly Marc Maron's fault. Hours and hours of comedians talking about their craft, and it's mostly junk we've elevated to something so much higher than it deserves.

[chveik]

Jack "The Hat" McVitie got shot, you insensitive cunt.

YOURE BLOCKED!

[Funcrusher]

Obviously being on CaB I take comedy more seriously as an artform than most, but I think this attitude might be part of the problem. Comedians talking as if the role of comedian is some sacred, untouchable thing.

I think this might be podcasts and particularly Marc Maron's fault. Hours and hours of comedians talking about their craft, and it's mostly junk we've elevated to something so much higher than it deserves.

Yeah, fuck comedy. We should be elevating sanctimonious fake outrage.

[Twed]

Could all the white people who want to declare the N-word "just a word mate" please just out themselves now? It will get expensive hiring the skip to put you all in more than once, so please bundle directly in now

[Lemming]

My friend gave me a free pass to say it once (and only once), and I gave him a "faggot" pass in return. Still haven't used it. Saving it up for a big occasion like perhaps a wedding.

[Thursday]

edit ignore

[chveik]

My friend gave me a free pass to say it once (and only once), and I gave him a "faggot" pass in return. Still haven't used it. Saving it up for a big occasion like perhaps a wedding.

(sorry, I had to do it)

[up_the_hampipe]

Obviously being on CaB I take comedy more seriously as an artform than most, but I think this attitude might be part of the problem.

Another part of the problem is how seriously people take comedians. Using quotes of them said with a thick layer of comedic irony that can be seen from space to make conclusions on them as human beings, resulting in "cancelling" or harassment. As evidenced by the bullying of Pete Davidson.

[Sin Agog]

My mum once got confused and called it 'the nig*** word' (can't quite bring myself to type the whole thing, but you get my drift).  She's not overtly racist at all, by the way, did lots of volunteering for various Black History Month projects recently; she just temporarily forgot the correct parlance and went with that.

[Johnny Yesno]

Actually if there are any Americans on here (which there probably are, it's not like they're banned), particularly female, cunt is an extremely offensive term to them.  It's seen as a word drenched in a long history of misogyny, treating women as little more than a vagina, and had often used for the purpose of belittling them and 'reminding them' that that's 'all they are'.  If you're going to censor one word that might offend someone due to the context of historic abuse that still lingers (but is more systematic and less-overt nowadays), does it make a lot of sense to do it while using a word that might offend someone else due to the context of historic abuse that still lingers (but is more systematic and less-overt nowadays)?

As I understand it, the history of cunt is quite different, at least in the UK. Much of the taboo surrounding it is down to its sexual connotations, rather than it being solely a label given by a violent group to a subjugated group. That said, if (American) women posted here saying that use of the word made them feel threatened, I'd at least consider refraining from using it. I wouldn't start going on about kindergarten.

[choie]

As I understand it, the history of cunt is quite different, at least in the UK. Much of the taboo surrounding it is down to its sexual connotations, rather than it being solely a label given by a violent group to a subjugated group. That said, if (American) women posted here saying that use of the word made them feel threatened, I'd at least consider refraining from using it. I wouldn't start going on about kindergarten.

Stands up nervously Hey, white (well, Jewish) American woman in the room.

For me, it's context. When amongst fellow USAmericans, I'd feel very different about its usage than amongst people from the UK.

If a U.S. guy used the word, especially when referring to a woman (and even more if referring to me!), I'd be extremely uncomfortable. I know it's just a word, and at one point "bitch" was pretty bad too (but not as a verb, interestingly-you can find it in 1950 Rex Stout mysteries, and he wrote pretty clean). But--again, just here in the U.S.--there's an ugliness, contemptuous and even violent implication held within it. Not far off from "faggot" or "n**ger." (Or--and this reminds me of another great Louis CK bit--even "Jew," depending on who says it and how it's said.)

For those groups (LGBTQ, blacks, women, Jews and several others) whose oppression is actually within living memory, and in fact who are targets of violence because of what they are* all too often today), such words can literally raise the hair on the back of our necks. Like an animal catching the scent of a predator, it's almost instinctive.

So while someone using those words casually--rather than as very clear invective--wouldn't cause anyone to faint or run away or do whatever our lizard brains tell us is safest, I'm betting a vast majority of us will feel on edge. And at the very least, think less of whoever used it. Sadly, it's even worse now, when the level of toxicity towards non-white, non-straight, non-male people is scarily rising, as is violence. (Thank God I live in NYC.)

But again: that's in a group of my compatriots. I've been an anglophile too long to be unaware of the differences in our cultures. You lot seem to curse far more than we do, at least in public and certainly on TV or films. You see my avatar is Malcolm Tucker, and I'm sure you know The Thick of It would never, ever be shown on regular, non-cable channels, no matter what time it was. (We don't have watershed hours... hmm now that I think of it, do you still use that system?)

So, OH MY GOD shut up choie... what was my point? Um. Oh right. So, having watched non-U.S. television and knowing hundreds of UK people online, I'm well aware that "cunt" doesn't have the same venom interlaced in it. Or maybe it does contain venom, but it's more... universal? I hear men using it against other men far more than I hear them using it about women (although it certainly does happen). Knowing this, I think the word'd slide past me inflicting only the slightest inward sting. Again the context is important. Party or bar or casual talk amongst friends? No problem. Someone in a position able to hurt me (literally) and using that word about me? Scary and intimidating.

As an aside... for the record? I'm not backing down on my opinion that Louis CK is an extremely funny guy, and his bad, harmful behavior (his specific form of it) doesn't change the fact that during some of my worst years of depression, I knew I could watch/listen to Hilarious, Chewed Up, Live at the Beacon Theater, Oh My God, and whatever other specials I've forgotten, and crack up and feel better because of such healing laughter. I still love 80% of Louie. And 75% of Talking Funny, for that matter (in other words, everyone but Gervais).

Annnnnd I'm sorry for the diatribe. Dull verbosity is kinda my thing. Feel free to tell this daffy cunt to fuck off.

P.S. I just remembered: the reverse of the "U.S./UK finding things offensive/okay" can be displayed by the word "p**i." Over here, it absolutely does not have the same level of offense that it holds for you. Maybe it's no longer as awful? I don't know how up-to-date my slang knowledge is.  I'm pretty sure at least in the mid-2000s it was still considered pretty fucking bad, if the social documentary known as Peep Show was accurate.

And that's the difference: the history embedded in that word doesn't exist here in the States. At least, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use it in a negative way.

Right, definitely fucking off now.

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

I know what you mean. I feel on edge whenever I hear "Boaty McBoatface", because of its historical association with twats.

[up_the_hampipe]

Wayne Brady has expressed his disappointment, they're done for now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63BUaSH1_lw

It seems that a lot of people really had no idea that Louis CK uses the N-word. I thought he was known for it. 

[Noodle Lizard]

I've lived in the US for about 6 years and, while I was aware of the heightened offense taken to "cunt", I never really tempered my use of it here.  Not as some sort of protest, you understand, it's just very ingrained in my vocabulary when I'm speaking comfortably with someone.  But I've never actually experienced even the slightest bristling from Americans - even got "shit for cunts" a bit of traction as a common expression among my closer friends.  Granted, I live in a big city where everyone watches British stuff and more risqué comedy, so perhaps it would have a different response elsewhere.  But this is also an incredibly liberal city and if there's going to be (over)sensitivity to something like that, it's here. 

Like choie alluded to, I think people kind of accept words if they realize it's just part of how you speak and doesn't have ill-intent behind it - which does demonstrate that it's not the words themselves that are "problematic" (which seems obvious anyway).

[MuteBanana]

How did Elvis Costello get away with it?

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

How did Elvis Costello get away with it?

It wasn't released as a single in America.

She says she's Natasha, but she's a cunt called Elsie/ I don't ever want to go to Chelsea

[Sin Agog]

How did Elvis Costello get away with it?

Chris Rock gave him permission.

[St_Eddie]

I feel as though perhaps some people have misconstrued the point I was making regards to the use of the phrase 'the N word'.  Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for people to band the actual word itself around, with no regard for the implications and history that are associated with it.  I certainly do not wish to ascend to the top of a hill and shout the word out, at the top of my lungs, in some horrible abuse of my rights in freedom of speech.  Rather, I'm simply saying that I question why, when people say "the N word" in a context of being against racism, should be so wrong to simply say the word itself?  Using the word within that context is not an endorsement of racism.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  Again, by not saying the word and pussyfooting around it, it could be argued that you're giving the word, and by extension, racists who use it in a hateful way, more power.

If using the word is the wrong thing to do, regardless of context, then surely that should mean that it would be wrong to use it in films and other forms of art.  That's Tarantino's career fucked. I guess (possibly a good thing, depending on your tastes but that's rather beside the point).  Regardless, was it wrong of me to hope that perchance we might have been able to engage in constructive and amicable debate without resorting to insults?  I don't think so.  Having said
that, some thought provoking counter arguments have been made in-between the insults and do have me questioning my stance.  I shall surely think on this further.  At the very least, I concede that it was clumsy of me to use the word "childish" because that's not constructive and was a poor choice of words.

All said and done, Merry Christmas, folks.

[Sin Agog]

This might be a correlation doesn't equal causation thang, but the fact that we are pussyfooting, and the uncensored word falls so awkwardly off the lips of us glib free speechers, probably means that the advent of 'the n-word' has actually done its job.  It's made ni***r not casual at all to the people barely affected by it, and that's quite a feat.  Some people get annoyed, because it has taken the tiniest sliver of freedom away from them, but such is the price one has to pay to not potentially send others into a week-long funk.  We don't know how many people we glancingly injure over the course of any given day, but as a shivering, naked mole-rat of a person, but also a guy who finds it hard to let a good joke die, I'm finding myself doing more of the latter lately than ever, and I think that's an evolution.

[St_Eddie]

This might be a correlation doesn't equal causation thang, but the fact that we are pussyfooting, and the uncensored word falls so awkwardly off the lips of us glib free speechers, probably means that the advent of 'the n-word' has actually done its job.  It's made ni***r not casual at all to the people barely affected by it, and that's quite a feat.  Some people get annoyed, because it has taken the tiniest sliver of freedom away from them, but such is the price one has to pay to not potentially send others into a week-long funk.  We don't know how many people we glancingly injure over the course of any given day, but as a shivering, naked mole-rat of a person, but also a guy who finds it hard to let a good joke die, I'm finding myself doing more of the latter lately than ever, and I think that's an evolution.

It's a fair point.  I'm spending a great deal of my time mulling this issue over in my head.

Some people get annoyed, because it has taken the tiniest sliver of freedom away from them...

I hope that people don't think that this was why I took umbrage with the phrase 'the N word' because it most assuredly isn't.  I couldn't give two hoots about the freedom of speech aspect of it.  I just think that it's a bit daft to not just say the word, if that's what one means to say.  When one reads "the N word", the word itself instantly enters your mind, so why not just cut out the middleman, so to speak?

[choie]

Well, the thing is, St_Eddie, as others have said, that your argument--not at all an outrageous one--is precisely at the center of a well-known Louis CK routine. (Routine? That sounds very vaudevillian...)  He literally makes this very point, that "some white lady with blonde hair on CNN" saying 'the n-word' is just white people getting away with saying "n**ger."  And it pisses him off because while she's not saying it, now the viewer has to interpret it, so basically this woman has made us think "n**ger" on her own.  It's really funny as well as a good point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ Here's a link. I hope it's not blocked for the UK.

[St_Eddie]

Well, the thing is, St_Eddie, as others have said, that your argument--not at all an outrageous one--is precisely at the center of a well-known Louis CK routine. (Routine? That sounds very vaudevillian...)  He literally makes this very point, that "some white lady with blonde hair on CNN" saying 'the n-word' is just white people getting away with saying "n**ger."  And it pisses him off because while she's not saying it, now the viewer has to interpret it, so basically this woman has made us think "n**ger" on her own.  It's really funny as well as a good point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ Here's a link. I hope it's not blocked for the UK.

I don't really understand the point you're making here though.  I've never watched Louis CK before (nor have any interest to, especially in light of the wankbeast revelations).  Why should the fact that he coincidentally made the same point that I'm making, have any bearing on the validity of my own argument?  Perhaps I'm being dense but I just don't see the relevance.  Is Louis CK the only person on Earth allowed to make that point?