Author Topic: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?  (Read 3579 times)

Glebe

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #90 on: December 27, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
What I don’t understand about Lord of the Rings is why the characters all have the same name.

"You can talk!" Tolkien replies to C.S. Lewis.

AsparagusTrevor

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #91 on: December 27, 2018, 03:47:55 PM »
Replace the word best with boring and I agree.
George Boring?

Endicott

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #92 on: December 27, 2018, 04:58:49 PM »
You'd had some hints at Boromir's temptation before that but really its this section that brings that plot to the fore and the climax at the end of the film. I think Jackson handles it very well having a subtle creepiness to her character communicating with Frodo telepathically when the fellowship arrives.

Straight out of the book of course. When Jackson sticks to Tolkien it works very well.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #93 on: December 27, 2018, 05:04:59 PM »
Straight out of the book of course. When Jackson sticks to Tolkien it works very well.

Been awhile since I read it but I don't remember that telepathy with Frodo in the book, she is tempted but the whole section doesn't play up the strangeness and creepiness as much as the film in my memory, then again you also have much longer to build that atmosphere up on the river journey south in the book.

I do actually think theres plenty in the films that's Jackson and co's invention that works very well.

Endicott

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2018, 05:22:42 PM »
She holds the eye of every member of the group when they first meet, and somehow communicates silently with them. Afterwards they make a big deal about not particularly wanting to discus the experience.

Endicott

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2018, 05:34:23 PM »
I do actually think theres plenty in the films that's Jackson and co's invention that works very well.

I agree with you actually. The bits in the first film with Arwen work very well, and the telepathic control of Theoden by Saruman is quite exquisite. A complete invention of Jackson's which is very effective.

There are some things done with Aragorn's character in order to give him an arc, which is IMO simply not required. Or allude to his actual arc if you must, which really took place before the time of the film, but don't make one up. Similarly, Faramir is reduced to a pale imitation of the character in the book. It's horrible to watch. I don't like what he did with Denethor either.

What else? Sending Sam back from the climb into Mordor. I hate that.

But yes, there is an awful lot of great stuff in the films. And I also agree with you that the CGI doesn't get overblown until The Hobbit (well until King Kong I suppose). In this trilogy I think it's very well used.

Crumbs. I might even have to get the S.E.s out and watch again, I've certainly talked my
self down a bit.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2018, 06:06:19 PM »
Whatever anyone thinks, if nothing else Jackson and co earnt infinite karma for completely doing away with Tom Bombadil (acknowledge they weren't the only ones to pretend he doesn't exist), quite possibly one of THE worst literary characters ever created.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2018, 06:18:51 PM »
Her, Gandalf, Elrond and up until the start of Fellowship, Saruman were effectively guardians of Middle Earth. She loses a great deal of her power before the film starts (as evidenced in The Hobbit 3)

Hey, you're not tricking us into watching Hobbit 3.

Twit 2

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2018, 06:21:26 PM »
Whatever anyone thinks, if nothing else Jackson and co earnt infinite karma for completely doing away with Tom Bombadil (acknowledge they weren't the only ones to pretend he doesn't exist), quite possibly one of THE worst literary characters ever created.

A cross between Ned Flanders and Brian Blessed.

kalowski

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #99 on: December 27, 2018, 06:25:25 PM »
Christ, Spielberg made at least three films better than LotR. I've not even considered Scorsese, Ford, Leone or Goddard.

So, no.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #100 on: December 27, 2018, 08:15:19 PM »
BTTF pisses all over them, and Bill and Ted.

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #101 on: December 27, 2018, 08:36:50 PM »
Hey, you're not tricking us into watching Hobbit 3.

It is part of one of the few scenes in the Hobbit 3 actually worth watching (possibly also as 4 of the 5 best actors are in it)

Pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhzzfXQmv9w
Pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eUD2-e0KK8

Anyway, this shows Galadriel becoming permanently diminished and corrupted in the attempt to fend off Sauron, which feeds nicely into her part in the Fellowship of the Ring where she is tempted to recover her power by seizing the ring.

There is also a sense in the Fellowship of the Ring that Lorien has turned into a cage or at least an open prison and she is partly tormented by having the gift of foresight and the will to intervene but not enough power to do much about it. In the end the subtle touches she adds - for instance coming to Sam & Frodo's aid vs Shelob do make a difference, but at least the shitty Hobbit 3 shows the enormous sacrifice she made before then.

Quite an interesting character, I think. Doesn't fall into many tropes, either film-wise or book-wise.

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #102 on: December 27, 2018, 08:53:29 PM »
BTTF pisses all over them, and Bill and Ted.

Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #103 on: December 27, 2018, 09:11:54 PM »
Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.
Well quite, the original post or title didn't specify trilogies. I know which I'd rather see on a Sunday afternoon.

All Surrogate

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #104 on: December 27, 2018, 10:22:41 PM »

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #105 on: December 27, 2018, 11:05:50 PM »
RUN YOU CUNTS!

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #106 on: December 28, 2018, 09:32:22 AM »
I see you.

See, to me that would be a horrible experience and I wouldn’t much enjoy putting that ring on.  Quite why everyone in the films is craving it is anyone’s guess.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #107 on: December 28, 2018, 12:07:36 PM »
I agree with you actually. The bits in the first film with Arwen work very well, and the telepathic control of Theoden by Saruman is quite exquisite. A complete invention of Jackson's which is very effective.

There are some things done with Aragorn's character in order to give him an arc, which is IMO simply not required. Or allude to his actual arc if you must, which really took place before the time of the film, but don't make one up. Similarly, Faramir is reduced to a pale imitation of the character in the book. It's horrible to watch. I don't like what he did with Denethor either.

What else? Sending Sam back from the climb into Mordor. I hate that.

But yes, there is an awful lot of great stuff in the films. And I also agree with you that the CGI doesn't get overblown until The Hobbit (well until King Kong I suppose). In this trilogy I think it's very well used.

Crumbs. I might even have to get the S.E.s out and watch again, I've certainly talked my
self down a bit.

I think one of the inevitable shifts from book to screen though is that you lose the divide between the Hobbits who Tolkien gives us an inner window on and the other characters which he doesn't. That tends to result in the other characters having to be humanised quite a bit more so you get situations like Aragorn having a much more obvious arc. Its the same with Faramir really, rather than the character already be noble we see him being ennobled during the story.

I felt the biggest disappointment of Jacksons films was actually Denethor but still I think that's understandable simply in terms of runtime, to establish him in the way the book does would have taken quite awhile in a film that was already pushing 4 hours and having to cut out a lot of scenes anyway.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #108 on: January 01, 2019, 08:52:02 PM »
Just watched Fellowship and it was even better than I remembered, glad I wasn't just a pissed idiot kid for liking it first time round.

I can't see any way that the Amazon series will improve or even get close to the films. Can only speak for the first one so far but I'll be surprised if a more perfect fantasy film is ever released.

Well, maybe not quite perfect. "They took the little ones" was bullshit.

Hobbits. Just say hobbits.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #109 on: January 02, 2019, 08:09:53 AM »
The Amazon series is going to be prequels rather than remaking Lord of the Rings I believe, sadly more in the "young Aragorn" mold from the sound of it rather than the wars of the rings in the second age.

You could argue I spose there would be room for a long series remake to be quite different to Jacksons films given how much is left out or shifted and I think the Hobbit films ended up having a lot of that kind of material in, Mirkwood ends up more like the Old Forrest, Radagast has a lot of Bombadil in him, etc.


Shaky

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #110 on: January 02, 2019, 12:44:12 PM »
Fellowship is a brilliant film but Ralph "Sexy Animals" Bakshi's 1970's rotoscoped version - while admittedly a bit wobbly overall- captures the feel of the book(s) more successfully, I think. It has a really vital, rustic charm which the mega-budget trilogy only betrays as it goes on.

magval

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #111 on: January 02, 2019, 01:05:27 PM »
What about Bo Hansson's prog album, who likes that?

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2019, 03:18:57 PM »
Fellowship is a brilliant film but Ralph "Sexy Animals" Bakshi's 1970's rotoscoped version - while admittedly a bit wobbly overall- captures the feel of the book(s) more successfully, I think. It has a really vital, rustic charm which the mega-budget trilogy only betrays as it goes on.

Bakshi's film is I'd say more of a Tolkiens greatest hits than a coherent story, some of the design work is very questionable but you could argue it does have more of the high fantasy detachment to it relative to Jacksons film were characters like Aragorn, Elrond, Théoden, etc are more humanised.

I always felt by far the best thing in that film was the Nazgul, maybe a little silly at points but arguably more otherworldly than Jacksons versions. Would have liked to see a bit more of the "ring world" in the latters film, the description of Frodo dreaming of being back in Bag End with the Nazgul standing over the hedge especially was I always felt a very effective image.

You could argue perhaps that the ideal format Jacksons films might not have been a trilogy but a quadology with Fellowship spilt in half along the lines of the book. I think Two Towers and Return of the King merging the two narratives probably needed to happen but Fellowship as good as it is does have to drop quite a lot of detail.

Sin Agog

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #113 on: January 02, 2019, 04:18:21 PM »
I always thought it was an odd choice in Bakshi's version replacing Samwise with a sex-mad drug fiend hippie cat.

Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2019, 04:25:34 PM »
I always thought it was an odd choice in Bakshi's version replacing Samwise with a sex-mad drug fiend hippie cat.

A few years ago I go to know the actor who voiced Samwise in this version.  Don't know about drugs and sex, but he certainly is a mad fiend hippie cat.

Glebe

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2019, 02:50:28 PM »
I think one of the inevitable shifts from book to screen though is that you lose the divide between the Hobbits who Tolkien gives us an inner window on and the other characters which he doesn't.

That's a really good point, actually. Frodo and co. do seem more like young men than 'hobbity' hobbits.

Chollis

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #116 on: January 03, 2019, 04:09:45 PM »
Not sure about the trilogy, last film was a bit iffy when I watched it as a grown-up, but yes, Fellowship is the greatest film ever made

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #117 on: January 03, 2019, 04:29:52 PM »
Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.

Yes when I look at my options in dungeons and dragons based Fantasy Adventure there is no doubt a film about two school kids doing their history homework in a time machine fulfils the criteria perfectly.

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Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
« Reply #118 on: January 03, 2019, 04:40:39 PM »
Yes when I look at my options in dungeons and dragons based Fantasy Adventure there is no doubt a film about two school kids doing their history homework in a time machine fulfils the criteria perfectly.

I have never heard of a game like that where the playing pieces are somehow scenes from films.