Poll

Is Theresa May still in Cheers?

Yeah she plays Norm
8 (21.1%)
Yes as moral support, bellowing “FUCK HIM UP SAM” at opportune moments
8 (21.1%)
Nah mate of course not; died!
6 (15.8%)
No; her backstage attempt to lez up with Diane Keaton went awry
11 (28.9%)
Mary Celeste
5 (13.2%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four  (Read 45862 times)

Paul Calf

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2019, 10:18:47 AM »
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/762222/Policy_paper_on_citizens__rights_in_the_event_of_a_no_deal_Brexit.pdf

It's up to the EU countries, not the UK, to reciprocate. Blame them if they don't.

Biggy in trust the government shocker.

You know the Home Office is even now sending letters to EU citizens making it clear how difficult their lives are going to be post-Brexit?

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2019, 10:23:21 AM »

biggytitbo

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2019, 10:27:44 AM »
No, I'm saying that the UK can do what it likes and be responsible for it.  If the UK chooses to endanger the lives of over a million of its citizens to keep part of the Conservative Party happy,  to suit cunts like Farage, that's the fault of the UK.  No one else.


People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably? The alternative is a small minority of people who don't want to live in the UK get to force the 17.4m people who do to remain in the EU against their will which doesnt sound right.


And again, it's not the fault of the UK that the EU countries won't reciprocate on citizens rights - its the EU countries fault.

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2019, 10:34:06 AM »
The alternative is a small minority of people who don't want to live in the UK get to force the 17.4m people who do to remain in the EU against their will which doesnt sound right.

You sound very certain that they hate the EU as much as you do, and would rather die than stay in it.

17.4m would be a good audience figure for Doctor Who, but it's nowhere near half the population of the UK.

Keep stating it though, like the people who voted the same way as you a) did so for exactly the same reasons as you and b) are the only people whose lives now matter.

Paul Calf

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2019, 10:39:17 AM »


And again, it's not the fault of the UK that the EU countries won't reciprocate on citizens rights - its the EU countries fault.

Well, the ultimate cause is the due to the people who voted to strip those people of the rights they currently have, but I don't ever expect you to acknowledge that.

Cuellar

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2019, 10:40:50 AM »

People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably

Unless they're EU nationals who live and work and pay taxes and have done all their lives and all their family is here - then they're not allowed a vote.

biggytitbo

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2019, 10:49:35 AM »
Well, the ultimate cause is the due to the people who voted to strip those people of the rights they currently have, but I don't ever expect you to acknowledge that.

No, they voted to repatriate their own rights, but I don't ever expect you to acknowledge that, nor ever dare criticise the EU countries who refuse to reciprocate.

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2019, 10:54:18 AM »
No, they voted to repatriate their own rights, but I don't ever expect you to acknowledge that, nor ever dare criticise the EU countries who refuse to reciprocate.

Are you able to continue this discussion without continually holding up this cartoonish misrepresentation of people who aren't obsessively hateful of the EU and saying "that's you that is"?  It's as tiresome as it is unrelenting, and it's not winning anyone over to your point of view.

The people who claim you never stoop to personal attacks seem to miss this particular debating trademark of yours.

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2019, 11:02:47 AM »

People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably? The alternative is a small minority of people who don't want to live in the UK get to force the 17.4m people who do to remain in the EU against their will which doesnt sound right.


And again, it's not the fault of the UK that the EU countries won't reciprocate on citizens rights - its the EU countries fault.

A small minority, over a million people, who made an existential choice under an existing set of longstanding rules.  On the basis of those rules. 

The Conservative Party, along with fascists like Farage, forced a vote on those rules and denied the people, the people who would be most affected by any change, British citizens, a vote on the outcome.  An outcome that would affect everything for them.  That's their fault is it?  People who made reasonable legal life-choices only to find that the state played politics and smashed the whole fucking lot to please a lot of stupid selfish cunts in the motherland.

Think about all the places in the world where terrorism, for want of a better word, has flourished.  Would you agree that the number one instigator for this kind of action is when the state disenfranchises citizens? 

This isn't some little spat that that can be pushed off on the Germans, though you may wish it so.  You get your knickers in a twist about sovereignty.  What about our sovereignty?   All of us little people, working, struggling, paying our taxes and making do and some fucking cunts destroy it all because they don't give a fuck.  All of the people whose lives are being threatened know exactly who they blame.  And believe me, they are angry.

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2019, 11:08:24 AM »
its all either cultural - missing the fact that leave voters have zero cultural attachment to the EU

In many instances (possibly to a very significant degree if we're talking about the numbers swaying the vote outcome) no cultural attachment to Europe more broadly, either.

It's not something to be proud of.

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2019, 11:11:39 AM »
It absolutely fucking disgusts me.  Tear up a million peoples' lives without a second thought, without even the grace to be ashamed, because it won't affect you and you have zero cultural attachment.

Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2019, 11:31:39 AM »
The Conservative Party, along with fascists like Farage, forced a vote on those rules and denied the people, the people who would be most affected by any change, British citizens, a vote on the outcome.  An outcome that would affect everything for them. 

@Biggy - this should written down and pinned to your computer for every time you want to splurt this absolutist rubbish about democracy and powerful corruption.

How can you not see how YOU are acting just the same as the people YOU claim to be against.  It is horrendous, you've walked yourself into a position you can't defend on your own terms or morals.

Just say these people are were worth sacrificing, you believe the outcomes of Brexit are worth their sacrifice ffs, my side won so I get what I want.

This constant half flirtation with owning ones own decisions, it is pathetic, as if changing the words makes your position any less ugly to anyone not existing in your cognitive dissonance.

biggytitbo

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2019, 11:41:54 AM »
A small minority, over a million people, who made an existential choice under an existing set of longstanding rules.  On the basis of those rules. 


Long standing rules that have fundamentally changed how we're governed and what kind of society and economy we want without popular democratic consent. We didn't vote to be in the EU as it is now back in 1975, we were specifically lied to about what kind of arrangement we were entering into and ever since then we've been repeatedly denied any choice about how it developed. Don't blame the voters if after 40 years of seeing a ship sail off into the horizon without them they finally got a choice, purely by accident, to do something about it - and they took it.

Mr_Simnock

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2019, 11:58:17 AM »
Quote
It absolutely fucking disgusts me.  Tear up a million peoples' lives without a second thought, without even the grace to be ashamed, because it won't affect you and you have zero cultural attachment.

When I think about the current situation in Greece after their treatment by the EU it absolutely fucking disgusts me.  Tear up 10 million peoples' lives without a second thought, without even the grace to be ashamed, because it won't affect you and you have zero cultural attachment.

Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2019, 12:00:57 PM »

Long standing rules that have fundamentally changed how we're governed and what kind of society and economy we want without popular democratic consent. We didn't vote to be in the EU as it is now back in 1975, we were specifically lied to about what kind of arrangement we were entering into and ever since then we've been repeatedly denied any choice about how it developed. Don't blame the voters if after 40 years of seeing a ship sail off into the horizon without them they finally got a choice, purely by accident, to do something about it - and they took it.


Not purely by accident and saying people didn't vote in 1975, nearly 45 years in the past, for what is "now" is FUCKING TRAGICALLY STUPID.  Stop it.

There are reasonable and decent arguments for and against staying leaving the EU stop vomiting out these shit slogans designed by right-wing pseudo-fascists to get morons to repeat them.

Stop just feeling your way through this, think ffs

Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2019, 12:02:55 PM »
@Biggy - this should written down and pinned to your computer for every time you want to splurt this absolutist rubbish about democracy and powerful corruption.

How can you not see how YOU are acting just the same as the people YOU claim to be against.  It is horrendous, you've walked yourself into a position you can't defend on your own terms or morals.

Just say these people are were worth sacrificing, you believe the outcomes of Brexit are worth their sacrifice ffs, my side won so I get what I want.

This constant half flirtation with owning ones own decisions, it is pathetic, as if changing the words makes your position any less ugly to anyone not existing in your cognitive dissonance.

He's not against them, he's pretending. He is one of them. Why the fuck doesn't this place see that?

gilbertharding

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2019, 12:10:37 PM »

Long standing rules that have fundamentally changed how we're governed and what kind of society and economy we want without popular democratic consent. We didn't vote to be in the EU as it is now back in 1975, we were specifically lied to about what kind of arrangement we were entering into and ever since then we've been repeatedly denied any choice about how it developed. Don't blame the voters if after 40 years of seeing a ship sail off into the horizon without them they finally got a choice, purely by accident, to do something about it - and they took it.

Well, there were certainly lies... 40 years worth.

But it's also a lie to say we've been denied any choice in the meantime. We repeatedly voted in general elections for governments which decided our policy on Europe and the European Union. Why aren't we in the Eurozone, just for instance?

It's not perfect, but what is? A referendum? Fucking hell.

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2019, 12:13:00 PM »
When I think about the current situation in Greece after their treatment by the EU it absolutely fucking disgusts me.  Tear up 10 million peoples' lives without a second thought, without even the grace to be ashamed, because it won't affect you and you have zero cultural attachment.

How does fucking over a million Brits help?


Long standing rules that have fundamentally changed how we're governed and what kind of society and economy we want without popular democratic consent. We didn't vote to be in the EU as it is now back in 1975, we were specifically lied to about what kind of arrangement we were entering into and ever since then we've been repeatedly denied any choice about how it developed. Don't blame the voters if after 40 years of seeing a ship sail off into the horizon without them they finally got a choice, purely by accident, to do something about it - and they took it.

Nevertheless, longstanding.  I wonder how the people of, say, Birmingham, they have a population of around a million, I wonder how they would feel if they were told, Well, the government did something we think was wrong, so what we're going to do is take away your jobs, communities, all the languages you've learnt, businesses you've grown, marriages that you've made, children that you've borne, homes you've built, sacrifices you've made, rights you have, hopes you cling to, friends, pensions, healthcare, pretty much everything, we'll make your property unsalable, anyway, we're doing it, we're going to vote on it but you don't get a vote.  No compensation or help.  Don't look so sour..  I wonder how that would go down.

Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2019, 12:14:57 PM »
Struggling to see how this could end any way other than no deal at this point.  Everything's pointing that way except the bookies, curiously, at 3/1.  Bloody tempting.  It was easy money for the original Brexit vote and Trump...

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2019, 12:17:48 PM »
When I think about the current situation in Greece after their treatment by the EU it absolutely fucking disgusts me.  Tear up 10 million peoples' lives without a second thought, without even the grace to be ashamed, because it won't affect you and you have zero cultural attachment.

What if the leaders of the largest EU countries had taken a stand against their treatment?

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2019, 12:35:16 PM »
Well, the Greeks are a minority aren't they, so fuck 'em.  We can't do everything just to take care of minorities.

biggytitbo

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2019, 12:44:13 PM »
Well, there were certainly lies... 40 years worth.

But it's also a lie to say we've been denied any choice in the meantime. We repeatedly voted in general elections for governments which decided our policy on Europe and the European Union. Why aren't we in the Eurozone, just for instance?


Not really true, the political establishment basically shut up shop on Europe 35 years ago, and put it off the table as an issue people could have a meaningful democratic say about. We didn't join the euro, thankfully (despite the current failed soothsayers on brexit saying we should), but that was more to do with our disastrous exit from the ERM. We didn't have much of a say on any of this, it was entirely a squabble between our political masters.

Buelligan

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #82 on: January 04, 2019, 12:49:40 PM »
How did any of that affect you, biggy?  How has your life been damaged by the EU?

chveik

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2019, 12:58:45 PM »
so what? you can be against something without being directly affected by it.

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2019, 01:09:56 PM »
so what? you can be against something without being directly affected by it.

This is true.

However, I have yet to see any evidence ever of biggy taking any particular side in an ethical, moral or political argument due to empathy and compassion rather than simply being a compulsive contrarian.

If at any point the wind changes and most people here start demonising the EU or backing the Leave agenda, you can bet your life savings that biggy will suddenly flip to a contrary viewpoint.

Paul Calf

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2019, 01:13:15 PM »
I have yet to see any evidence ever of biggy taking any particular side in an ethical, moral or political argument due to empathy and compassion rather than simply being a compulsive contrarian.

If at any point the wind changes and most people here start demonising the EU or backing the Leave agenda, you can bet your life savings that biggy will suddenly flip to a contrary viewpoint.

It's what we used to call 'trolling' before the politically correct Nazi Liberal thought police said we weren't allowed any more.

chveik

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2019, 01:18:14 PM »
I have yet to see any evidence ever of biggy taking any side in a discussion due to empathy and compassion rather than simply being a compulsive contrarian.

If at any point the wind changes and most people here start demonising the EU or backing the Leave agenda, you can bet your life savings that biggy will suddenly flip to a contrary viewpoint.

fair enough.

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2019, 01:21:14 PM »
It's what we used to call 'trolling' before the politically correct Nazi Liberal thought police said we weren't allowed any more.

Well, trolling is generally more half-arsed so I can see why the term doesn't apply.  My feeling is that biggy picks a contrary position and then researches it with enough bias to then believe in it for the duration he argues about it.  "Trolls" simply don't immerse themselves to the same degree.

I don't wish to belittle anyone who agrees with some or a lot of what biggy says, incidentally.  biggy takes his arguments from real people on reddit and of course there will be some overlap with the real views of people here.  And of course if you agree with those views please talk about them; I just don't think you should let biggy be your mouthpiece for them.


Paul Calf

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2019, 01:37:14 PM »
Trolling used to be a creative endeavour; a decent troll was a joy to watch. It's been co-opted now  though, and applied generally to sad flamers tweeting the recently bereaved to tell them they hope their son is getting raped in hell or whatever.

Biggy is a classic, if somewhat joyless, troll.

biggytitbo

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Re: Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:27 PM »
Troll? You dismiss people you don't agree with with 'Russian bot' these days, grandad.