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Is Theresa May still in charge? Brexit Discussion Thread Four

Started by Fambo Number Mive, January 03, 2019, 08:46:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Is Theresa May still in Cheers?

Yeah she plays Norm
8 (21.1%)
Yes as moral support, bellowing "FUCK HIM UP SAM" at opportune moments
8 (21.1%)
Nah mate of course not; died!
6 (15.8%)
No; her backstage attempt to lez up with Diane Keaton went awry
11 (28.9%)
Mary Celeste
5 (13.2%)

Total Members Voted: 38

biggytitbo

People really need to stop viewing the EU as some external thing imposing stuff on the UK, and more a place for the political classes of all member nations, including the UK, to get together in secret and do stuff they don't want their electorate to have a say about. That's precisely why our political establishment is so attached to it to the point they are having a collective nervous breakdown at the prospect we might take their toys away from them.

phantom_power

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 01:29:02 PM

If you read the full results doc they were asked to rank dozens of different reasons.

By dozens you mean 4 yeah? The data tables only show 4 for remain and 4 for leave

katzenjammer

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 01:29:02 PM

If you read the full results doc they were asked to rank dozens of different reasons.

Are you sure?  Looks like it was actually four

QuoteTable 57
Q.27 Below are some reasons people have given for voting LEAVE. Please can you rank them in order of how important they were in your decision,
even if there were other reasons that were important to you?

The principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK

A feeling that voting to leave the EU offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over its own borders

The belief that when it comes to trade and the economy the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than being part of it

A vote to remain was a vote for having little or no choice about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead

Note that the text of the reasons is not the same as in the graphic,  which is a weird thing to do.

phantom_power

And look at who did the poll. The whole thing smacks of dishonest use of statistics to push a point that Biggy agrees with, and he has fallen for it hook line and sinker. Once again proving that his levels of intellectual rigour are entirely dependent on whether something supports his claims or not

Sin Agog

Quote from: phantom_power on January 11, 2019, 02:03:08 PM
And look at who did the poll. The whole thing smacks of dishonest use of statistics to push a point that Biggy agrees with, and he has fallen for it hook line and sinker. Once again proving that his levels of intellectual rigour are entirely dependent on whether something supports his claims or not

Yeah, I don't trust that poll one iota.  Diane Keaton was never in Cheers.

katzenjammer

Quote from: Jeremy Hunt
The parliamentary arithmetic is challenging. But, also, the choices are very clear. And I think after this week things have changed. Up till now I think people have quite rightly been worrying about the prospects of no deal. Now there is another possibility coming into sight, which is actually no Brexit.

Oh no!  Say it isn't so?

biggytitbo

Quote from: phantom_power on January 11, 2019, 02:03:08 PM
And look at who did the poll. The whole thing smacks of dishonest use of statistics to push a point that Biggy agrees with, and he has fallen for it hook line and sinker. Once again proving that his levels of intellectual rigour are entirely dependent on whether something supports his claims or not

Haha and of course you just effortlessly float above us all, painstakingly sifting through fact and fiction without a hint of your own biases or prejudices ever influencing your endless quest for the cold hard truth.

However that survey was constructed, it's results coincided with other polls and studies about why people voted - http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Carl_Reasons_Voting.pdf

Telling about the incredible judgment of remain voters -

QuoteWhen asked to rank the reasons why their counterparts voted the way they did, Leave voters characterise
Remain voters more accurately than Remain voters characterise Leave voters. In particular, Remain voters
underestimate the importance that Leave voters attach to the EU having no role in UK law-making.

As for the reasons. In one survey -

QuoteThe most frequently selected reason among Leave voters––ticked by 45%––was, 'to strike a better balance between Britain's right to act independently, and the
appropriate level of co-operation with other countries'. The most frequently
cited reason among Remain voters––ticked by 40%––was, 'to be better for jobs, investment and the economy
generally'.

So exactly the same findings then. Also in another survey -

QuoteThe most frequently cited reasons for voting Leave were 'Sovereignty/EU bureaucracy' and 'Immigration'. By far the most frequently cited reason for voting Remain was 'Economy'

Whoops, exactly the same findings - leave voters care about democracy and sovereignty and remain voters care about money. It's almost as if it was true or something.

Paul Calf


Mr_Simnock

QuoteIt's only a rich man who doesn't care about money.


katzenjammer

Quote from: biggytitboIf you read the full results doc they were asked to rank dozens of different reasons

So did you just make this up?



BlodwynPig

This is more tortuous than looking for spiders in Timothy Claypole's dead nappy.

BlodwynPig

The fucking government have put up the price of the final leave to remain application by 25% Fucking criminals. So, in total, roughly 9000 GBP to get my wife citizenship of a sinking, stinking island of despair.


Jerzy Bondov

It's undeniably a short term inconvenience but I for one think it's worth Blodders having to shell out nine grand if it means we get some delicious sovereignty.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: phantom_power on January 11, 2019, 02:50:53 PM
Price of freedom mate

Shove it. Shove Britain and it's haughty sense of self-worth. It's a disease riddled, backward looking, boondock of a country. I hope everyone in it suffers continual pangs of regret occasionally relieved by mind-numbing bouts of terror. Not coming back. FlouncetoFrance.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on January 11, 2019, 02:52:55 PM
It's undeniably a short term inconvenience but I for one think it's worth Blodders having to shell out nine grand if it means we get some delicious sovereignty.

I'd be more happy, honestly, to give the nine grand to you.

biggytitbo

Quote from: katzenjammer on January 11, 2019, 02:37:20 PM
So did you just make this up?


No I didn't make it up, I may have misread it. I certainly didn't make up the now quite well established reasons people voted either way. I don't think it says anywhere whether Ashcroft took the reasons leave and remain voters gave him then asked them to rank them or arbitrarily selected reasons for them - if its the latter that's certainly misleading but its odd in that case that they perfectly mirror what the other surveys say isn't it?

katzenjammer

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 02:57:02 PM

No I didn't make it up, I may have misread it.

Heh! OK mate. I believe you
Quote
I certainly didn't make up the now quite well established reasons people voted either way. I don't think it says anywhere whether Ashcroft took the reasons leave and remain voters gave him then asked them to rank them or arbitrarily selected reasons for them - if its the latter that's certainly misleading but its odd in that case that they perfectly mirror what the other surveys say isn't it?

Yeah I find it really odd that the surveys you chose 'perfectly mirror' the other survey you chose. 

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brits-believe-they-were-misled-over-brexit_uk_599bf511e4b04c532f441339?ec_carp=1724472571179107191

QuoteAccording to a poll by Opinium, 26% of all Leave voters say they were misled by the Brexit campaign which promised voters £350m a week extra for the NHS.

When respondents were asked whether they believed the NHS bus pledge, a quarter of all voters said they did. Of Leave voters, 35% said they did, and 16% of Remain voters.

More than a year after the June 23 referendum, of all voters, half say the Leave campaign was misleading. Nineteen percent said it was truthful.



Buelligan

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 01:15:44 PM
Nobody voted to leave because Turkey may or may not join the EU.

Quote from: The Express 14 March 2016Brexit GAME CHANGER: A third of Britons say they will vote LEAVE if Turkey joins EU
TURKEY'S bid to join the EU was last night described as a "game changer" after a poll showed it would make a third of Britons more likely to back leaving Europe

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652142/third-Brits-leave-EU-Europe-Turkey-joins-immigration-human-rights-concerns-Erdogan-press

JamesMcGrory

Quote from: Buelligan on January 11, 2019, 03:41:56 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652142/third-Brits-leave-EU-Europe-Turkey-joins-immigration-human-rights-concerns-Erdogan-press

From the piece in the Express, "if Turkey became a member" - I must admit I didn't know it had. So those fascist Vote Leave posters were far right after all. It's quite an education I'm getting here.

Somewhat incredibly, from the post above - "if Turkey joins the EU"

kngen

Quote from: BlodwynPig on January 11, 2019, 02:45:56 PM
The fucking government have put up the price of the final leave to remain application by 25% Fucking criminals. So, in total, roughly 9000 GBP to get my wife citizenship of a sinking, stinking island of despair.

Nine grand? Fucking hell. I'm pretty sure it was 4 and a half grand tops about 5 years ago when we looked into it (and even that was ridiculously high, given it was a few hundred quid for years until they jacked up the price). So double that, and you don't get FOM in Europe into the bargain? Yep, that's the sort of forward-thinking, fair society that we can expect under the fully sovereign United Great British Kingdom of Britons (and maybe some Paddys, not sure yet. We'll get back to you ...)

Buelligan

Quote from: JamesMcGrory on January 11, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
"if Turkey became a member" - I must admit I didn't know it had. So those fascist Vote Leave posters were far right after all. It's quite an education I'm getting here.

It appears you still have reading to add to your acquired skills.

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 01:15:44 PM
Nobody voted to leave because Turkey may or may not join the EU

If you're going to troll, at least make some effort.

JamesMcGrory

Quote from: Buelligan on January 11, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
It appears you still have reading to add to your acquired skills.

If you're going to troll, at least make some effort.

I'm unsure of your point. I've made factual contributions entirely lacking from what I've seen of the debate here.

My reading and comprehension may not be perfect, but I know the difference between present, past and future tenses. The Express article says "if". Has Turkey joined? Not to my perfect EU knowledge. This thereby discounts everything in the piece. I believe it's what's known as a proviso, a determinant or a prerequisite.

Buelligan

If you have a problem of understanding, do some reading or research, don't come here to troll.  I thought you were a boring cunt last time you were here.  I still think you're a boring cunt and I'm not going to feed you.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: JamesMcGrory on January 11, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
From the piece in the Express, "if Turkey became a member" - I must admit I didn't know it had. So those fascist Vote Leave posters were far right after all. It's quite an education I'm getting here.

Somewhat incredibly, from the post above - "if Turkey joins the EU"

Do Turkeys vote for Christmas?

BlodwynPig

Quote from: kngen on January 11, 2019, 03:50:11 PM
Nine grand? Fucking hell. I'm pretty sure it was 4 and a half grand tops about 5 years ago when we looked into it (and even that was ridiculously high, given it was a few hundred quid for years until they jacked up the price). So double that, and you don't get FOM in Europe into the bargain? Yep, that's the sort of forward-thinking, fair society that we can expect under the fully sovereign United Great British Kingdom of Britons (and maybe some Paddys, not sure yet. We'll get back to you ...)

I'm done with GREAT britain. Moving to Buelligan's cave - won't be a bother, don't mind me, not asking for much, will pay my way...

biggytitbo

A third of people will vote leave if Turkey joins the EU within the next 3 months, sez the Express.


Is that really the best we can do?

Buelligan

Hardly an indication that peoples' votes were not swayed by the suggestion that Turkey could join the EU, is it?

Quote from: BlodwynPig on January 11, 2019, 04:03:28 PM
I'm done with GREAT britain. Moving to Buelligan's cave - won't be a bother, don't mind me, not asking for much, will pay my way...


Matthew 11:28

JamesMcGrory

Quote from: Buelligan on January 11, 2019, 03:59:43 PM
If you have a problem of understanding, do some reading or research, don't come here to troll.  I thought you were a boring cunt last time you were here.  I still think you're a boring cunt and I'm not going to feed you.

That's unfair and verging on hostile. I commend you. I'm an absolute expert on the EU Referendum, as anyone approaching Bercowian levels of impartiality would recognise.

Congratulations. Your response here is just the kind of fact averse, Humpty Dumpty style defining and overwhelming ignorance we're looking for at Gaping Britain. I wasn't sure about my job offer, but failing to acknowledge the word "if" has sealed it.

Welcome to Gaping Britain.

JamesMcGrory

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 11, 2019, 04:07:13 PM
A third of people will vote leave if Turkey joins the EU within the next 3 months, sez the Express.

Is the article from 2045? I must admit, what with the Humpty Dumpty style redefining of terms, the roughshod gallops over linear chronology and the overriding ignorance on display, even I'm a little lost.