Author Topic: First Blood  (Read 2160 times)

First Blood
« on: January 06, 2019, 01:04:59 AM »
I must admit, I almost got choked up at Stallone'a monologue about trauma and war is hell.

I totally forgot that its a bit more than just an ace action film.

Have you revisited a film totally forgetting it?

kngen

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2019, 03:16:30 PM »
To make one film that is often misconstrued or overlooked because of its moronic sequels is carelessness. To make two seems like a bloody-minded attempt to wholly destroy your legacy.

Stallone's not an idiot, by any means - I often wonder what the inner conflict between the artiste and the blockbuster meathead must have been like. He seems charmingly self-deprecating about it these days though. I think history will judge him reasonably well, as it should.

Shaky

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 12:06:07 AM »
Still can't believe we're getting a Rambo 5 though, with John in full Cowboy gear.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 12:16:59 PM »
To make one film that is often misconstrued or overlooked because of its moronic sequels is carelessness. To make two seems like a bloody-minded attempt to wholly destroy your legacy.

Stallone's not an idiot, by any means - I often wonder what the inner conflict between the artiste and the blockbuster meathead must have been like. He seems charmingly self-deprecating about it these days though. I think history will judge him reasonably well, as it should.

When did they release a sequel to Demolition Man?

Re: First Blood
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 01:25:58 PM »
If Rambo 5 is half as good as Rambo 4 then it will be a really fucking good movie.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 01:53:41 PM »
First Blood is a brilliant brilliant film.  A timely reminder that it was directed by Ted Kotcheff, who also did the five alarm masterpiece Wake In Fright.  He also did a few episodes of The Red Shoe Diaries and, wait for it...Weekend At Bernie's.  I know.

I'm also very fond of Rambo(/John Rambo, as it should have been called), so I'm quietly confident about 5.  However it could so easily go more into Expendables fantasy territory rather than Rambo (4) grim serious territory.  We'll see.

But, yeah - Stallone's alright by me.  He's done some guff for sure, but he's also made some brilliant films, written some brilliant screenplays, and can properly act when he wants to.  As kngen says, he will be judged positively by history (as long as there aren't any revelations, of course...).

Re: First Blood
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 04:15:58 PM »
Rambo 4 is a bit of a slog, decent enough but pretty gruelling until:



at which point, it is actually brilliant. No, wait, just when you've seen what a 50 cal can do to a human being, he'll do it again. And again. And again.

and

again

Quote
To make one film that is often misconstrued or overlooked because of its moronic sequels is carelessness. To make two seems like a bloody-minded attempt to wholly destroy your legacy.

Even Rocky 2 is much much more sedate and low key than the reputation of the whole series.

I agree with Shit Good Nose.



Shit Good Nose

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 04:38:25 PM »
Even Rocky 2 is much much more sedate and low key than the reputation of the whole series.

I agree with Shit Good Nose.

I love Rocky 2 - I've always seen it as a continuation/second part of the first film rather than a mere sequel.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 04:51:44 PM »
I love Rocky 2 - I've always seen it as a continuation/second part of the first film rather than a mere sequel.

... rewatched over Christmas and it is so much more grounded than you'd ever expect from the next two entries in the series.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 12:34:03 PM »
Has anyone seen the remake that was made by one guy playing all the roles in his house?

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 07:52:36 PM »
I love Rocky 2 - I've always seen it as a continuation/second part of the first film rather than a mere sequel.

I love Rocky II too. Even though the Rocky series became more cartoony and absurd with III and - especially - IV, Stallone did a good job of bringing it all back home to its relatively gritty, low-key roots with Rocky Balboa (I've deliberately missed out the pointless V, which, as Sly himself admits, was a botched attempt at achieving what he eventually managed to do with RB). The Creed films have continued in that vein.

It's true, though, that the Rambo sequels inexplicably go against the whole point of First Blood. They're violent, right-wing, gung-ho action movies, whereas FB wears its somber antiwar credentials on its tattered sleeve. It's as if Sly somehow completely misunderstood a film that he himself co-wrote. To be fair, he's since admitted that Rambo II and III are very silly films that he's not particularly proud of, but I don't think John Rambo managed to evoke the spirit of the original in the same way that Rocky Balboa did. JR is a relentlessly nasty film, I don't find it enjoyable at all. The character of Rambo just isn't as interesting or as engaging as Rocky, First Blood said everything there was to say about him (and the abandoned PTSD-stricken war veterans he represented).

Anyway, as others have said, Sly always comes across as a genial, funny, intelligent and self-aware/critical guy. As for how history will judge him, well, if the serious allegation that came out against him last year turns out to be false - everything seems to have gone quiet on that front, strangely, it hasn't affected his career at all - then he'll undoubtedly be celebrated as a great movie star and talented filmmaker. An icon, if you will.

Phoenix Lazarus

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2019, 08:06:41 PM »
When he broke down at the end of Rambo, First Blood, I almost expected to hear a violin, accordion and organ all come in playing a maudlin melody.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2019, 08:13:23 PM »
I'm also very fond of Rambo(/John Rambo, as it should have been called), so I'm quietly confident about 5. 

It was known as John Rambo in some territories, and that's what I prefer to call it. A better title, as you say.

As for 5, the idea of ageing cowboy Sly taking out a Mexican cartel sounds quite good fun in theory.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2019, 08:15:14 PM »
When he broke down at the end of Rambo, First Blood, I almost expected to hear a violin, accordion and organ all come in playing a maudlin melody.

It's quite an affecting moment, no? I can't think of another action film in which the protagonist has a complete mental breakdown at the end.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 08:55:00 PM »
When he broke down at the end of Rambo, First Blood, I almost expected to hear a violin, accordion and organ all come in playing a maudlin melody.

Oh. I thought it was quite a heartbreaking scene.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 10:37:52 PM »
It's quite an affecting moment, no? I can't think of another action film in which the protagonist has a complete mental breakdown at the end.

The General putting his hand on RamboJohn's back is the only glimmer of light in the entire film, its so bleak, but brilliant.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 11:50:48 PM »
The General putting his hand on RamboJohn's back is the only glimmer of light in the entire film, its so bleak, but brilliant.

And the well-meaning yet utterly misguided general being the very man who sent RamboJohnRambo - and every other young soldier - into either inevitable death or severe PTSD adds a powerful note of scathing antiwar satire.

That probably sounds silly if you're only aware of the tooled-up Rambo image but haven't seen First Blood. However, the first film really doesn't have anything to do with the 'America, Fuck yeah!' crap that followed.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 12:06:37 AM »
That probably sounds silly if you're only aware of the tooled-up Rambo image but haven't seen First Blood. However, the first film really doesn't have anything to do with the 'America, Fuck yeah!' crap that followed.
If anything, it's almost critical of America: the authority figure abusing his position and his goon squad enjoying treating Rambo like shit until he hits his breaking point. The main surprising thing is that, if I remember right, only the one guy dies - the arsehole who falls out of the helicopter.

They should have gone with the original ending when Rambo either blows his own head off, or the Colonel shoots him. I forget which it was, but him being put out of his misery would have made more sense.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2019, 12:21:51 AM »
It'd have nipped the sequels in the bud.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 12:42:43 AM »
If anything, it's almost critical of America: the authority figure abusing his position and his goon squad enjoying treating Rambo like shit until he hits his breaking point. The main surprising thing is that, if I remember right, only the one guy dies - the arsehole who falls out of the helicopter.

They should have gone with the original ending when Rambo either blows his own head off, or the Colonel shoots him. I forget which it was, but him being put out of his misery would have made more sense.

One guy gets spikes swung into his legs, that might have killed him.

A bit like how Batman beats people to a pulp, almost certainly giving them brain damage or worse - but we never 'see' him kill anyone.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 07:31:24 AM »
One guy gets spikes swung into his legs, that might have killed him.
They would have mentioned it, perhaps? Just helicopter wanker gets talked of as dead.

But I did remember that he killed those dogs, so there's that.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 10:34:50 AM »
One guy gets spikes swung into his legs, that might have killed him.

A bit like how Batman beats people to a pulp, almost certainly giving them brain damage or worse - but we never 'see' him kill anyone.

It punctures his knob too doesn't it? Better off dead.

famethrowa

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 11:08:48 AM »
But Rambo shrunk to the size of a child at the end of 2?? How did he recover

https://youtu.be/oXxQmpLpWL8?t=40

Brundle-Fly

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 07:59:31 PM »
Great movie. The genius composer, Jerry Goldsmith doing his thing.

You can hear echoes of his Alien (1979) score in this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1WWeKrNvww&list=RDTzYn6Saiwyo&index=19

And definitely his Planet Of The Apes (1968) with these bits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsGdLnENlgQ&list=RDTzYn6Saiwyo&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUb-THCg9TM&list=RDTzYn6Saiwyo&index=12

Phoenix Lazarus

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 09:38:24 PM »

A bit like how Batman beats people to a pulp, almost certainly giving them brain damage or worse - but we never 'see' him kill anyone.

Well, the people he's fighting have those protective force fields that mitigate the force of the blows, while leaving enough force to knock them down, or backwards, and unconscious.  You know, the force fields which are programmed in a spirit of humour to light up with words like 'ZAP!' and 'POW!'

Re: First Blood
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 06:20:17 PM »
And the well-meaning yet utterly misguided general being the very man who sent RamboJohnRambo - and every other young soldier - into either inevitable death or severe PTSD adds a powerful note of scathing antiwar satire.

That probably sounds silly if you're only aware of the tooled-up Rambo image but haven't seen First Blood. However, the first film really doesn't have anything to do with the 'America, Fuck yeah!' crap that followed.


Colonel Trautman is like "the old man" in the first Robocop... both of them are often perceived as a noble authority figures, but they're arguably the true villians of both films.  People often miss the part in First Blood where Trautman tells Teasle that Rambo would be easier for him to kill "because he trusts me.... I'm the closest thing to family he has left and it might be the only edge I need".  Even Teasle (who is portrayed as the main antagonist up untill this part) is utterly disgusted with Trautman's remark.

It's funny... they try to make Trautman more of a "comrade" of Rambo's in the sequels, but there's still a residual trace of the sociopath that was in the first film... for example in Rambo: First Blood Part II, Rambo is never made completely sure that Trautman wasn't involved in his betrayal and he doesn't really do much to help him, either.  Also, the scene at the start of Rambo III where he pretty much bullies Rambo into going to war with him, even though Rambo's clearly had enough ; they try to make him more of a father figure... but he's still kinda a creep.


I must confess to enjoying II and III, though... as comic book spectacles.

Re: First Blood
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 06:26:39 PM »

Colonel Trautman is like "the old man" in the first Robocop... both of them are often perceived as a noble authority figures, but they're arguably the true villians of both films.  People often miss the part in First Blood where Trautman tells Teasle that Rambo would be easier for him to kill "because he trusts me.... I'm the closest thing to family he has left and it might be the only edge I need".  Even Teasle (who is portrayed as "the villian" up untill this part) is utterly disgusted with Trautman's remark.
I guess the key line is when Rambo points at Trautman and shouts "it wasn't my war - you asked me, I didn't ask you!" I mean, he was some kid taken out of the Midwest and made by this Colonel into the ultimate killing machine, then ditched when he was no longer useful. Credit to Stallone, I thought he really put over a feeling of heavy resentment (that was entirely missing from the sequels) towards him.

Dex Sawash

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 09:07:47 PM »

Didn't really help either of my daughters deal with menarche
7/10

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

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Re: First Blood
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2019, 03:44:38 PM »
Another promo image from Rambo V.



You can pretty much predict how this film will play out. Old man Rambo, a solitary rancher who wants to live out his final days in rural peace, is eventually (i.e. within the first half hour) compelled to once again become a one-man army. Ultra-violent carnage ensues. The film ends with Rambo delivering a melancholy speech before wandering off into the sunset. The last great American hero.

I'm sort of looking forward to it.   

Re: First Blood
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2019, 04:35:39 PM »
He's getting on, I hope it's as mad and implausible as Death Wish III.