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Twenty years ago today, a guy walked into a psychiatrist's office...

Started by Keebleman, January 10, 2019, 06:51:17 PM

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colacentral

I think The Sopranos is the best ever too, head and shoulders above The Wire. The Wire is very narrative-based and wears its meaning on its sleeve, whereas The Sopranos is all about character and ambiguity. Twin Peaks season 3 gives it a run for its money but The Sopranos is endlessly entertaining; I could rewatch it a thousand times and never get bored, which I can't say for Twin Peaks.

As far as which seasons are best, I think that it more or less gets better as it goes on, bar a bit of filler with Vito in 6A (6A was already in production as the final season when HBO offered them 9 more episodes, hence why 6A starts strong then treads water for the second half of it). Season 1 is the most dated, the cheesiest and the most conventionally structured. The mafia stuff is more rooted in the cool portrayal of Goodfellas etc than the subsequent seasons, which paint the characters in an increasingly pathetic light.

The final 9 episodes is the best run of TV episodes ever created and will probably never be beaten, almost perfection. And no sitcom can boast as many hilarious and unique comic characters: Chris, Junior, Phil Leotardo, Artie, Carmine Jr... virtually every character is hilarious.

On the subject of the ending, David Chase apparently let it slip what he meant when being interviewed for that new book:

https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a25830387/we-finally-know-what-happened-to-tony-soprano-in-that-final-diner-scene/

It was always fairly obvious, I thought, though you could infer the thing that happened to be symbolic rather than literal. What I enjoy about that link is that Chase was talking to Alan Sepinwall at the time, who was one of the critics who came out with that moronic "the viewer got whacked" theory the day after the finale and stubbornly stuck to it through all these years. Glad to see him get definitively told that's bollocks. I'm sure he came out with a load of nonsense about Twin Peaks s3 when it finished too. That's the problem with TV "critics" writing to deadlines soon after airdates rather than having time to sit with something.

chveik

no love for Six Feet Under then? it's just as good as The Sopranos (and The Wire), albeit tonally different.

Ferris

6 Feet Under was alright, but not a patch on The Wire.

I saw the first 2 eps of The Sopranos but wasn't grabbed. Must give it another go really.

hummingofevil

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on January 11, 2019, 05:39:51 PM
Is it really the greatest show ever? I guess I always watched it rather passively, so any amazing points it may have made about the human condition, or whatever, went over my head. I don't remember it having the narrative scope and ambition of The Wire.

I could have sworn it started earlier than 1999. I must be thinking of Oz, a show which, I think, doesn't get enough credit for helping start the age of golden tellies.

Spoilers.

The thing that makes The Sopranos the greatest TV show ever is that is was not about them but about us. The way they manipulate the viewer into liking the characters and then slowly picking them off one by one as being absolutely awful human beings who we should feel really bad for rooting for. You then think "oh well, he might be a wrong un but she is the victim here" only for them to keep pulling back and keep exposing them. The final pull back is on the audience themselves; it's telling us that we are terrible people for sanitising and glorifying really horrible people. It's a therapy in itself but for people who don't think they need it. It is an absolute masterpiece without parallel.

And Tony Soprano is only the second greatest character in TV history. Carmella is the first!

--

Oz was truely amazing for 3 seasons and then turned into the biggest pile of dogshit ever committed to screen in about 1 and a half episodes (the ageing drugs storyline).

I'll need to look it up but the timing of the big finale where it all kicked off between the Muslims and the Nazis was broadcast days before September 11th 2001 happened. Quite spooky given how it built up the tension and made many of its audience aware that there was an actual issue between some extremists in these groups.

chveik

Quote from: hummingofevil on January 12, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
Spoilers.

The thing that makes The Sopranos the greatest TV show ever is that is was not about them but about us. The way they manipulate the viewer into liking the characters and then slowly picking them off one by one as being absolutely awful human beings who we should feel really bad for rooting for. You then think "oh well, he might be a wrong un but she is the victim here" only for them to keep pulling back and keep exposing them. The final pull back is on the audience themselves; it's telling us that we are terrible people for sanitising and glorifying really horrible people. It's a therapy in itself but for people who don't think they need it. It is an absolute masterpiece without parallel.

there is some truth in this, but David Chase ain't Michael Haneke. The Sopranos is too entertaining and ambiguous to only be about the audience's love/hate relationship with these morally corrupt characters.

Blinder Data

Quote from: hummingofevil on January 12, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
And Tony Soprano is only the second greatest character in TV history. Carmella is the first!

I would say Edie Falco gives the better performance, but no way is Carmela a greater character than Tony.

Sin Agog


monolith

Quote from: colacentral on January 12, 2019, 12:34:28 AM


https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a25830387/we-finally-know-what-happened-to-tony-soprano-in-that-final-diner-scene/

It was always fairly obvious, I thought, though you could infer the thing that happened to be symbolic rather than literal. What I enjoy about that link is that Chase was talking to Alan Sepinwall at the time, who was one of the critics who came out with that moronic "the viewer got whacked" theory the day after the finale and stubbornly stuck to it through all these years. Glad to see him get definitively told that's bollocks. I'm sure he came out with a load of nonsense about Twin Peaks s3 when it finished too. That's the problem with TV "critics" writing to deadlines soon after airdates rather than having time to sit with something.
"fairly obvious" is an understatement, there's no other way to read the scene that makes any sense.


Bazooka

New interview with a few of the cast members reflecting on the show after 20 years, Junior has aged well.

Blinder Data

Quote from: Bazooka on January 15, 2019, 10:50:22 AM
New interview with a few of the cast members reflecting on the show after 20 years, Junior has aged well.

Is that the Today ABC one? Meadow has still got it. Edie Falco has barely changed. Paulie appears to have dementia, unfortunately

Wet Blanket

For me The Sopranos is the only one of the 'golden era' shows that remained consistently great from start to finish. Breaking Bad and Mad Men are both a couple of seasons too long. The Wire shits the bed with that ropey final season.

Sin Agog

Quote from: Bazooka on January 15, 2019, 10:50:22 AM
New interview with a few of the cast members reflecting on the show after 20 years, Junior has aged well.

You should listen to his episode of the Gilbert Gottfried podcast.  Not only is he very funny and sweet, he is a fabulous singer.

As to his looks, probably one of those Patrick Stewarty bald optical illusions.  If you go bald early in life, by the time you get to the age when reasonable people go bald everyone starts commenting on how young you look.

Puce Moment

It is a fantastically entertaining drama and probably holds the crown as greatest TV show, particularly in the context of how influential it became. Coming out at the end of the 90s, I also think it was pretty ahead of its time in its treatment of masculinity, anxiety, and family.

I agree with the poster above that Oz deserves some recognition for its contribution to the golden age of TV, coming as it does just prior to The Sopranos and paving the way for expansive, series arc  focused TV drama. However, it is not even remotely close to the consistency of quality that we get with The Sopranos.

Dex Sawash

Haven't watched this yet. Doubt it is better than Hey Arnold!

Mobius

I've got tickets to see some of the lads in the flesh in a couple of months. Quite excited!

For the first time in Australia, Steven Schirripa (Bobby 'Bacala'), Michael Imperioli (Christopher Moltisanti), and Vincent Pastore ('Big Pussy' Bonpensiero) will take us behind the scenes of the legendary show - the stories, the dramas, the laughs – not to mention the countless theories about the show's controversial finale.


Keebleman

Here's an Aussie journalist interviewing some of the cast the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAiWUgmeehg

And yeah, Tony Sirico does seem to be losing it a bit, but on the upside Edie Falco actually looks younger than she did 20 years ago while Robert Iler is surprisingly funny.

Golden E. Pump

Sopranos, Oz, Six Feet Under, The Wire and Twin Peaks to me are all very different things but function on about the same level in terms of gripping entertainment. I'd rank the X-Files up there as well, although its drop-off in terms of quality is far more noticeable (seasons 8-11 had some outstanding episodes though).

magval

Quote from: Keebleman on January 16, 2019, 12:22:26 AM
Here's an Aussie journalist interviewing some of the cast the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAiWUgmeehg

And yeah, Tony Sirico does seem to be losing it a bit, but on the upside Edie Falco actually looks younger than she did 20 years ago while Robert Iler is surprisingly funny.

Has the thing they were there to film been uploaded?

Edit: Here it's. https://youtu.be/cSUFaSVPCRQ

paruses

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on January 12, 2019, 12:15:04 AM
Is it on any streaming sites?

Was sure someone had asked this as I sat in traffic staring at a billboard advertising Now TV with a young looking Tony Soprano staring back at me.

So - Now TV (not sure if that counts as a streaming site - it probably doesn't does it? I've typed all this now so am posting it)

Custard

You can get the dvds second hand for cheap. Though I'd recommend splashing out on the blu ray set, as it's bloody lovely looking. You won't regret it


lipsink

Quote from: Shameless Custard on January 23, 2019, 11:17:34 AM
Young Tony cast, and it's quite a surprising choice

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46970651

Wait, isn't it set in 1967? Assuming Tony is about 40 when The Sopranos started in 1999 that would make young Tony 10 during the Newark race riots. Michael Gandolfini is 19.

phes

Quote from: lipsink on January 11, 2019, 03:03:19 PM
In a way, we were spoilt with The Sopranos and The Wire. Nothing since has really come close

Not a popular opinion, but I believe Justified is up there with both of those shows. It's a different beast, but what it does it does moreorless to perfection throughout a long run.

lebowskibukowski

FWIW, Romanzo Criminale, The Wire and Engrenages in that order. Have not yet watched The Sopranos (am planning a bit of a binge with the missus when she finally gets through The Gilmore Fucking Girls) and didn't get past the first episode of Breaking Bad. I know that you are meant to give series like these time to breathe but it just didn't grab me.

Custard

I'd recommend sticking with Breaking Bad. It took me two separate goes to really get hooked on it, and it happened about 4 or 5 episodes in. Once it grabs you, it never lets go

The Sopranos though, that was instant. I loved everything about it

EDIT - Good point, lipsink. The good news is, he has a younger son too! ;-D

Lost Oliver

I reckon the first series is by far the worst and Steven Van Zandt is appalling in it. It's understandable but it feels like they're trying to tick as many boxes as possible and the result is something that feels a bit melodramatic and predictable.

Once it gets into gear from season 2 onwards it really becomes something special and I think it's not only the best TV show EVER but possibly the best thing EVER.

What's so important in stuff like this is the humour because life's funny sometimes. Usually when a show tries to do funny it comes across all wrong but The Sopranos just nails it.

Best moment? "... I mean... don't you love me?"

Rev+

Quote from: monolith on January 13, 2019, 11:07:52 PM
"fairly obvious" is an understatement, there's no other way to read the scene that makes any sense.

The tunnel scene was a different ending that was considered as a death sequence a couple of series before the thing ended.  Chase has stated that Tony doesn't die at the end of the series as it eventually manifested:  https://www.vox.com/2014/8/27/6006139/did-tony-die-at-the-end-of-the-sopranos

But the phrasing there was probably down to his mood on the day.  The day after he'd have maybe said he died.  The answer is there's no answer, which is why it's as ambiguous as it is.  The ending we got is a fantasy - it's Tony imagining what might happen in that restaurant before he's seated at a table he looks over at, or it's literal and the religious imagery is really happening.  Neither option works, because they're not supposed to.  We're not supposed to be able to settle on one side or the other.