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Resident Evil 2 Remake

Started by bgmnts, January 12, 2019, 05:03:39 PM

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popcorn

#300
The great thing about survival horror RE is the systematic nature of it. The way the environments are built in loops that slowly unfold. Areas start off threatening and unknowable but slowly become familiar. There's something cosy about it, like filling in a jigsaw, the big picture emerging. And as I said above, dodging zombies has an extra, comical flavour to it now, as you start to see familiar faces.

That's pretty much exactly what I love about playing Dark Souls now, romping through areas that used to terrify me as I tiptoed around with my shield up. But the difference is that I'm crushing everything for the fun of it, not just running past everything to the bosses.

popcorn

You're not running past everything to the bosses in RE2. You're running past everything on your way to use the crank on the hole. You've just found the crank and you're very excited about using it on the hole.

Phil_A

TBH if you were just running past everything in classic RE you were probably playing it wrong. You only had to do that early on before you'd built up any ammo, eventually you could just go from room to room systematically massacring  everything.

REmake made it much harder to do that which was one of the reasons I found it an incredibly frustrating experience.

The Culture Bunker

My biggest criticism of this game is that the second run through isn't all that - too much of it is a step-by-step repeat of what you did the first time, including how you escape the police station: in the original, Claire and Leon had different items (chess piece/stone things) needed, while here both just have to collect the same medallions and, also annoyingly, seemingly do the same boss fights with Birkin.

That particular thing - not that I have much experience with the original - but that particular thing is such a weird decision, unless it was a pure imposition of time. How can you do something significantly better first time, know it's beloved by the fanbase, dare to put A and B routes in, but just make it redundant and worse than the original game? I appreciate that they've apparently done a really good job with the this in many ways but it's like remaking Dark Souls and giving you the Lord Vessel from the start or taking away NG+ or something. It's a fundamental part of the game which enriches BOTH routes! If you implement it this weakly, it actually takes away from both routes. Strange.

The Culture Bunker

I did get the impression that maybe they weren't going to bother with the A/B thing and just throw everything in the one playthrough - hence why Mr X appears first time around (and that you get to use the rocket launcher on him too, rather than in the B scenario) - but then late on someone panicked and they quickly cobbled together some vague A/B set up.

Thursday

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on March 04, 2019, 05:29:13 PM
My biggest criticism of this game is that the second run through isn't all that - too much of it is a step-by-step repeat of what you did the first time, including how you escape the police station: in the original, Claire and Leon had different items (chess piece/stone things) needed, while here both just have to collect the same medallions and, also annoyingly, seemingly do the same boss fights with Birkin.

I completely agree it really soured me on the game, the only real differences where things that would be exclusive to each character anyway. How come a game released in 1998 can get this right?

I did think it was a bit pointless in the original how you had to do both A scenarios and then both B scenarios, but considering here you skip straight to Claire B, I can't even imagine how pointlessly similar doing a Claire A and Leon B run must be. You'd be doing about 90% of the game 4 times.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Thursday on March 04, 2019, 07:32:12 PMI did think it was a bit pointless in the original how you had to do both A scenarios and then both B scenarios, but considering here you skip straight to Claire B, I can't even imagine how pointlessly similar doing a Claire A and Leon B run must be. You'd be doing about 90% of the game 4 times.
Not sure what you mean with you "had" to do Leon A/Claire A then Leon B/Claire B. The idea was surely that you played either A scenario, then swapped the discs and played as the other character?

As I recall, even in the original there were (albeit minor) differences between Leon A/B, Claire A/B. Irons, Ben and Ada's deaths (or not, in the case of the last) varied and I think Sherry was only infected in one of them.

Not much, I know, but you'd think 20 years on they could have done more with the idea.

Thursday

I mean that Claire A and Leon A were kind of the same, Claire A had the same path to the police station that Leon did, unless I remembered it wrong.

Bazooka

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on March 04, 2019, 07:24:05 PM
I did get the impression that maybe they weren't going to bother with the A/B thing and just throw everything in the one playthrough - hence why Mr X appears first time around (and that you get to use the rocket launcher on him too, rather than in the B scenario) - but then late on someone panicked and they quickly cobbled together some vague A/B set up.

Yeah I fully concur, A/B scenarios in RE2 felt like a completely new experience, in RE2:Remake might as well delete the save file and start the A scenario again. Mr X was a huge element to separating the scenarios.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Bazooka on March 04, 2019, 10:22:35 PM
Yeah I fully concur, A/B scenarios in RE2 felt like a completely new experience, in RE2:Remake might as well delete the save file and start the A scenario again. Mr X was a huge element to separating the scenarios.
When I fired up the B scenario in the remake, I did laugh when after a couple of brief cut scenes, I was suddenly at a point (meeting Leon by the locked gate at the Station) that probably took me a hour or so to reach in the first run through.

And I didn't like how Irons is an obvious arsehole evil guy from the off here, while in the original he just came across as creepy at first. I'm only seeing it through so I get to see the whole Claire/Sherry story and the full ending.

St_Eddie

Quote from: popcorn on March 04, 2019, 12:32:53 PM
The red tick you get when an item has no further use is fucking bizarre. I know in RE1 it just outright told you when a key was no longer useful and suggested you chuck it, which is clunky and redundant but at least it works.

I cannot overstate just how much I love the 'this item no longer serves a purpose. Disgard?' mechanic.  There's something of a release in that.  An intangible quality.  I missed that in the remake.  The red tick system is nowhere near as satisfying.

popcorn

#313
Quote from: St_Eddie on March 04, 2019, 10:54:33 PM
I cannot overstate just how much I love the 'this item no longer serves a purpose. Disgard?' mechanic.  There's something of a release in that.  An intangible quality.  I missed that in the remake.  The red tick system is nowhere near as satisfying.

It's gratifying but it's weird. Inelegant.

Why do they even give you the option to keep a useless object? There's always a part of you that wonders if you might be able to use it for a secret side quest later or something. My girlfriend wouldn't let me dump the chain cutters in the remake and insisted I put them back in the trunk, just in case. But then she is the cautious type.

Ferris

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 04, 2019, 10:54:33 PM
I cannot overstate just how much I love the 'this item no longer serves a purpose. Disgard?' mechanic.  There's something of a release in that.  An intangible quality.  I missed that in the remake.  The red tick system is nowhere near as satisfying.

And the lovely blip-bloop noise of the original menu. I can hear it now, discarding a key I no longer need. Blip-blip-blip—-blooop.

Re: inelegant solutions - I always thought the magic tardis storage box that reappears and is connected to all other boxes you've met along the way was a bit bonkers, but I suppose you have to draw the line on reality somewhere.


popcorn

#315
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on March 06, 2019, 04:49:04 AM
And the lovely blip-bloop noise of the original menu. I can hear it now, discarding a key I no longer need. Blip-blip-blip—-blooop.

Re: inelegant solutions - I always thought the magic tardis storage box that reappears and is connected to all other boxes you've met along the way was a bit bonkers, but I suppose you have to draw the line on reality somewhere.

It's unrealistic, yes, but from a design perspective the tardis box works well. It's intuitive, it makes an odd sort of sense, it's a system that can be quickly understood and used.

UI/UX design, and usability in general, is an area with a huge potential for improvement in games. It's something that never comes up in reviews or discussion, because talking about whether menu systems are easy to use isn't as sexy as talking about bosses or graphics, but it makes a huge difference.

It goes back to my complaint about the shit haunted door in the RE1 remake, which gives you a vague text warning about how the door looks a bit broken or something, and are you sure you want to use it? There's no sensible way to use that information, and it causes players to behave in ways that are almost certainly not what the developers wanted. It's basically a UX problem.

One memorably shite example is in one of the more recent Halo games. Setting up a multiplayer game was a fucking nightmare. Among other problems, it was impossible to remember which map was which. They all had poetic names like "Impact" and "Erosion" rather than descriptive ones (compare to "Donut" from Mario Kart 64 - can you guess what shape it was?). There was a little info field giving you a paragraph of text about each map, but instead of providing useful information like, say, how many players it would be appropriate for, it was some fucking fantastical lore about the mystical alien beings who carved the map from unobtanium mines aeons ago.


madhair60

I've always wanted to make a game that prompts you to discard a seemingly trivial key early on, which turns out to open the door to the final boss.

A shit game, basically.

popcorn

I reckon you should have been able to kill the final boss in RE4 with one hit by throwing an egg at it. Reward the player who carries an egg all the way from the village through the game.

madhair60

Quote from: popcorn on March 06, 2019, 08:32:51 AM
I reckon you should have been able to kill the final boss in RE4 with one hit by throwing an egg at it. Reward the player who carries an egg all the way from the village through the game.

Fantastic idea.

popcorn

Yes thanks.

Could have unlocked the Nome King Dethroned achievement.

magval

Quote from: madhair60 on March 06, 2019, 08:12:32 AM
I've always wanted to make a game that prompts you to discard a seemingly trivial key early on, which turns out to open the door to the final boss.

A shit game, basically.

I don't know if anyone remembers the excellent demo-disc Net Yaroze game Terra Incognita, but when I finally beat the last boss he dropped a key, and when I got to the last door with it I hoyed it straight through in a sort of moronic celebration and when I walked through after it, it had vanished.

Shit game? Shit player.

AsparagusTrevor

Quote from: magval on March 06, 2019, 10:53:24 AM
I don't know if anyone remembers the excellent demo-disc Net Yaroze game Terra Incognita, but when I finally beat the last boss he dropped a key, and when I got to the last door with it I hoyed it straight through in a sort of moronic celebration and when I walked through after it, it had vanished.

How could anyone forget Terra Incognita, or at least its amazing 'English' translation.
"They say the treasure is protected by horrable monster"
"But, I am really scary."
"You are a coward guy."

popcorn

I didn't realise RE2 had the bloke chasing you in it. I thought that was the gimmick in RE3 (which I also haven't played).

Isn't it called Nemesis in RE3? Or is that different?

magval

Same idea except he chases you the whole game. Also he speaks and has a sore face and a rocket launcher.

St_Eddie

Quote from: magval on March 06, 2019, 03:57:52 PM
Also he speaks...

I loved the bit in Resident Evil 3 where Nemesis gives his soliloquy, musing on questions relating to existential philosophy.  Really made you think.

It was also quite exciting when he went full peado and bummed the little boy.  They better not cut that bit out of the remake, like they cut all of the iconic peado material out of the Resident Evil 2 remake.  Much like the polygonal arse of said little boy, I'm still sore about that.

St_Eddie


Thursday

Quote from: popcorn on March 06, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
I didn't realise RE2 had the bloke chasing you in it. I thought that was the gimmick in RE3 (which I also haven't played).

Isn't it called Nemesis in RE3? Or is that different?

Yeah Resi 3: Nemesis could pursue you throughout much of the game. Which was kind of an expansion of Mr X/Tyrant who appeared in the B scenarios in Resi 2, but he would only appear at scripted moments, but it gave the impression he was pursuing you.

Space ghost

They've fucked this up a bit haven't they.