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Game Of Thrones Season 8

Started by Dog Botherer, January 15, 2019, 06:13:03 AM

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NoSleep

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on April 24, 2019, 06:26:14 AM
I think Dany kills Tyrion, she's been openly critical of his abilities as the Hand. Tyrion has even started to doubt himself. That would be the start of her heel turn into madness.

I think Tyrion has noticed his lines aren't being written by GRRM anymore.

greenman

Quote from: Hey, Punk! on April 23, 2019, 10:57:02 PM
I do hope that there is an ambiguous ending, a kind of pyrrhic victory where it isn't entirely certain who will take the Iron Throne. One thing that this series is at least doing effectively is demonstrating how different the situation is, reminiscing on the events of the past. This may be a cynical attempt on the writers to remind us how good the show was, but it works. A decent ending would be one where we're made aware that things cannot carry on as they have.

I will genuinely be angry if Dany takes the Iron Throne and it's framed as a positive. She is horrible.

I think its reasonably likely that the whole idea of monarchy over all Westeros is killed off by the end of the show.

Spoon of Ploff

Quote from: NoSleep on April 24, 2019, 06:47:16 AM
I think Tyrion has noticed his lines aren't being written by GRRM anymore.

True, can't remember the last time he had to ask "Where do whores go?"

lebowskibukowski

I've thought for the last couple of seasons that Dany would go batshit crazy but I really can't see it happening now, unless the writing is really, really bad and they are planning to chart her descent into madness in the space of a couple of hour long episodes. The character has certainly been written to become unlikeable over the years in preparation for this, but it has been left so long now I can't see it.

sevendaughters

for all the faults of the latter series i think that maniacal win-and-be-seen-as-benevolent-at-all-costs streak has been in Dany since she marched the Dothraki across Essos looking for a Shell garage and a pint.

Kryton

Said it before, but I think the best way to 'break the wheel' is to melt the iron throne with dragon fire, a symbolic destruction of centralisation destroying the legacy of Aegon the conqueror and leaving the realm to go back to the days of old, independence.

But it'll be Jon that does it IMHO, not Dany. Jon has refused leadership many times... He left the NW, he abandoned his Kingship and leader of Winterfell etc... I doubt he wants to rule the 7 Kingdoms.

lebowskibukowski

Quote from: Kryton on April 24, 2019, 01:10:25 PM
Said it before, but I think the best way to 'break the wheel' is to melt the iron throne with dragon fire, a symbolic destruction of centralisation destroying the legacy of Aegon the conqueror and leaving the realm to go back to the days of old, independence.

But it'll be Jon that does it IMHO, not Dany. Jon has refused leadership many times... He left the NW, he abandoned his Kingship and leader of Winterfell etc... I doubt he wants to rule the 7 Kingdoms.

I think you might be right on this, which is a shame as I had a fiver on Varys to end up on the Iron Throne at about 66/1, possibly my worst bet since Emile Heskey to be top scorer at the 2010 World Cup

dallasman

Quote from: Mister Six on April 23, 2019, 10:45:03 PM
Bloodlines don't actually matter if you're a bastard, and the people of Westeros are hardly going to listen to Missendei, wherever she's gone.

Missandei is at Winterfell, preparing to mourn her cockless boyfriend, Grey Worm. You mean Melisandre, who sneaked off quietly, but indicated to Varys that she was coming back, expecting to die there. Is she gathering some of her co-religionists to do magic? Is she off resurrecting Stannis? We can probably expect at least one big-ish surprise from her, but the bloodline hocus pocus may have run its course, as you suggest.

Quote from: sevendaughters on April 24, 2019, 11:16:03 AM
for all the faults of the latter series i think that maniacal win-and-be-seen-as-benevolent-at-all-costs streak has been in Dany since she marched the Dothraki across Essos looking for a Shell garage and a pint.

Yeah, I think a situation could arise where she feels forced to choose, and makes the wrong choice without giving it much thought. Her dedication to Jon notwithstanding, she still seems to regard the throne as her ultimate goal and destiny. She's got the madness bad, and the show might well want to send a clearer message about her ambitions before it wraps.

Or, they could have decided that she's earnt everything she ever wanted, and that Jon will be enough of a stabilizing voice of reason by her side. Wouldn't put it past them, but on balance, I think it's going to be a lot messier than that.

Mister Six

Quote from: NoSleep on April 24, 2019, 06:45:42 AM
It does suggest there's more to the royal bloodlines than merely belonging to a powerful family, though. Melisandre recognised the power of Gendry's royal blood.

Yes, but he's still not in contention for the throne. He doesn't want to be king, nobody is pushing for him to be king, he isn't legally allowed to be king, and even if everyone else dies, it makes more sense for the Seven Kingdoms to end as a single nation and return to their own independent rule than for him to take over, even at the prodding of Viserys or someone.

The contenders are Jon, Dany, Cersei, maybe NK if you want to stretch things. There might be a twist where someone just takes the throne on impulse towards the end, but there's no reason to assume they, whoever they are, is in the running now. Gendry has no better case for it at present than Tyrion, Sansa or even Bronn.

Old Nehamkin


sevendaughters

Arya only wanted to ride his forged codpiece when she found out he had royal blood

NoSleep

Quote from: Mister Six on April 24, 2019, 02:25:51 PM
Yes, but he's still not in contention for the throne. He doesn't want to be king, nobody is pushing for him to be king, he isn't legally allowed to be king, and even if everyone else dies, it makes more sense for the Seven Kingdoms to end as a single nation and return to their own independent rule than for him to take over, even at the prodding of Viserys or someone.

The contenders are Jon, Dany, Cersei, maybe NK if you want to stretch things. There might be a twist where someone just takes the throne on impulse towards the end, but there's no reason to assume they, whoever they are, is in the running now. Gendry has no better case for it at present than Tyrion, Sansa or even Bronn.

I was suggesting there is something supernatural informing the rise to the throne; fate unfolds before them all who have the bloodline (Jon has been thrust to the fore, reluctantly, enough times now to make a good example). Gendry's the descendant of a usurper at this stage, not really a main contender, but they still bothered to bring him back for the finale, so is he now the last of the Baratheons, due to take his seat at Storm's End? Where are all the other Baratheons (there must have been a few other cousins or something)?

Mister Six

No, I don't think there's some grand fate unfolding here - no more than in any other story where someone can see the future, at least.

greenman

The Baratheons are a cadet branch of the Targaryens aren't they? so "Kings Blood" could mean Targaryens/Valyrian blood.

NoSleep

Quote from: greenman on April 24, 2019, 05:35:33 PM
The Baratheons are a cadet branch of the Targaryens aren't they? so "Kings Blood" could mean Targaryens/Valyrian blood.

I'm not sure. Haven't come across that before.

Quote from: Mister Six on April 24, 2019, 05:32:18 PM
No, I don't think there's some grand fate unfolding here - no more than in any other story where someone can see the future, at least.

Not sure what's going on here. We're talking fantasy with magic and shit (and blood). Gendry's on the playing field, whatever.

BritishHobo

Quote from: dallasman on April 24, 2019, 01:43:26 PM
Missandei is at Winterfell, preparing to mourn her cockless boyfriend, Grey Worm. You mean Melisandre, who sneaked off quietly, but indicated to Varys that she was coming back, expecting to die there. Is she gathering some of her co-religionists to do magic? Is she off resurrecting Stannis?

Can't resurrect someone if they're not actually dead!

sevendaughters

Ormund Baratheon married Rhaelle Targeryan, their kid begat Robert, Stannis, and Renly.

BritishHobo

Enjoying the discussion though, I have been wondering if we'll see some payoff to all the God stuff, especially the Red God. Unless bringing Jon back was the extent of his long-game.

Mister Six

I'd hoped for some elaboration on all the god business, but that was depleted last season and is now gone. Can't see then pulling that off AND the other shit they need to get through.

Twit 2

#289
2nd episode a much better affair (maybe because my expectations were so low), but I did feel that mostly had the heft and pathos necessary. The better actors had more to do, which counts for most of that, but the shits even raised their game. Good stuff. I hope the battles don't go on too long, but these sequences are normally well done  - BotB in particular - so it all comes down to the plotting now.

Btw, my wife is a bigger GoT fan than me, and the last time she was in Seville she went to the 'dragon pit' and by coincidence they were filming. She reckons by knowing the people who were there at the time that means knowing who survives the battle of Winterfell as presumably any scenes there would have to be after the battle. Not sure if that holds up, but interesting. She didn't want to tell me who was there though, assume it's googleable anyway.

Kryton

What if Arya is just about to kill Cersei (disguised as Jaime) - but Cersei begins dying as a result of child-birth, Arya takes the baby from her and Cersei says something like.... 'Kill me if you must, but promise me you won't kill the baby' - Mirroring the whole Stark/Baratheon vs Targ thing, and allowing another Stark to raise a child of dubious origin?

Mister Six

And then she punts it into the sea.

dallasman

Quote from: BritishHobo on April 24, 2019, 06:22:43 PM
Can't resurrect someone if they're not actually dead!

He died on the way back to his home planet, shortly after Brienne cut the moorings of his Valyrian Steel Zeppelin.

Jon used the name 'Dany' when they were in the crypt. Is this the first time anyone has called her that in the show? It made him sound like some forum fan.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Default to the negative on April 24, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Jon used the name 'Dany' when they were in the crypt. Is this the first time anyone has called her that in the show? It made him sound like some forum fan.

there's loads of internetty dialogue now, "you've ruined horses for me", "the white walkers are coming and i am so here for that"

mothman

Is the "Stannis is still alive" running joke a thing anywhere apart from here?

Custard

Well here, and Stannis' house

Twit 2

Quote from: Default to the negative on April 24, 2019, 11:13:26 PM
Jon used the name 'Dany' when they were in the crypt. Is this the first time anyone has called her that in the show? It made him sound like some forum fan.

She's been called Dany before in the show, and GRRM calls her Dany, so not a fan thing?

Some of the Americanisms in the dialogue standout, though. "We're done here," to signal the end of a conversation etc.

NoSleep

Daenerys' chapters in the books refer to her as "Dany". I don't think anyone calls her by that name, but she was called by that name as a child, and the implication is that how she sees herself.

I've never really had issue with the way she is acted by Emilia Clarke, because it is "Dany" putting on an act for the rest of the world. Likewise she identifies with all the slaves she has liberated because she felt enslaved herself until she owned her role as Khalisi.

Norton Canes

Caught up with episodes one and two. Hour and a half down the drain. Could they have come up with a more plodding, predictable, pedestrian way to reintroduce the characters (both to us and each other)? Utterly tension and excitement free. Plot developments practically nonexistent. Not even any diverting side-stories to maintain interest. These people are preparing for a massive battle, the logistics of which was mentioned in passing, so why not add some stuff about how the armies are starving, people are stealing food, factions are falling out with each other? Brienne briefly mentioned the ground she was holding, it would've been great to see the generals out in the field, preparing the mechanics of warfare. More expensive, but perhaps some kind of brief skirmish between reconnaissance parties? Both parties have dragons, you would expect them to be out and about scouting for weaknesses.

There were hints of betrayal between the main players and I'm sure they'll be developed in the final episodes but Jesus, it was torturous seeing everyone just basically getting along, no matter what their grievances. I mean when Jon Snow let Daenerys know he was the rightful King, it was the moment that shattered EVERYTHING SHE'S EVER LIVED FOR, and what did we get? A rueful sigh. I'm not criticizing Emilia Clarke here, it's the material was pathetically tame.

Chris Boucher should be writing this.