Game Of Thrones Season 8

[greenman]

A bit sad we won't find out what Varys heard in the flames when he had his tackle removed.

The whole Lord of Light subplot seems to be the most obvious example of Martin having little idea where it was going, in the end I think the show just made it focused on a takedown of excessive faith in a cause without compassion.

[BritishHobo]

Something I'm struggling with is the redditinternet tendency to turn someone from hero to villain in an instant. So we now all think that Dan and David are awful terrible talentless hacks, even though we've loved the show for five or six seasons. The point that the show is weaker without the source material is fairly undeniable, but I'm not on board with the way it's being generally accepted that this means they're retroactively a pair of shit idiots whose mediocre work was propped up by the books. To me that shows an intentional disregard for how TV works, in the name of perpetuating an easy narrative out of frustration with this season. They delivered season after season of brilliant, compelling television, which everyone loved, they corralled together a stellar cast, really nailed the setting and characters on-screen, they translated the story into a different medium brilliantly, found and created beautiful ways to bring the settings to life visually, they wrote and structured and directed hugely compelling seasons of television; they did a fucking great job. It's not as easy as just 'book is good so dum-dum showrunners make good show'. But the current narrative seems to push that.

[Crabwalk]

I've been listening to a GoT podcast where the hosts have been making money off the back of the show, via books, subscriptions etc. And after the latest episode they're advocating LEGAL ACTION against D&D for 'wilfully driving the franchise into a wall'.

Absolute children, and the world is full of them now.

[Harpo Speaks]

Something I'm struggling with is the redditinternet tendency to turn someone from hero to villain in an instant. So we now all think that Dan and David are awful terrible talentless hacks, even though we've loved the show for five or six seasons. The point that the show is weaker without the source material is fairly undeniable, but I'm not on board with the way it's being generally accepted that this means they're retroactively a pair of shit idiots whose mediocre work was propped up by the books. To me that shows an intentional disregard for how TV works, in the name of perpetuating an easy narrative out of frustration with this season. They delivered season after season of brilliant, compelling television, which everyone loved, they corralled together a stellar cast, really nailed the setting and characters on-screen, they structured and directed the story as episodes and seasons, they did a fucking great job. It's not as easy as just 'book is good so dum-dum showrunners make good show'. But the current narrative seems to push that.

Hah, just had pretty much this exact conversation about half an hour ago where I was stressing the difficulties of translating a story from book to screen, and that having the source material to draw from is barely even half the battle. It is something you see constantly when it comes to film and TV adaptations.

'X was in the books, why the hell isn't it in the TV show?'

BECAUSE TV IS A VISUAL MEDIUM AND YOU CAN'T CONVEY CERTAIN STORYTELLING ASPECTS IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU CAN IN A BOOK

[Mister Six]

Something I'm struggling with is the redditinternet tendency to turn someone from hero to villain in an instant. So we now all think that Dan and David are awful terrible talentless hacks, even though we've loved the show for five or six seasons. The point that the show is weaker without the source material is fairly undeniable, but I'm not on board with the way it's being generally accepted that this means they're retroactively a pair of shit idiots whose mediocre work was propped up by the books. To me that shows an intentional disregard for how TV works, in the name of perpetuating an easy narrative out of frustration with this season. They delivered season after season of brilliant, compelling television, which everyone loved, they corralled together a stellar cast, really nailed the setting and characters on-screen, they translated the story into a different medium brilliantly, found and created beautiful ways to bring the settings to life visually, they wrote and structured and directed hugely compelling seasons of television; they did a fucking great job. It's not as easy as just 'book is good so dum-dum showrunners make good show'. But the current narrative seems to push that.

They were very good at condensing someone else's overwritten stories into a TV show. When it came time for them to take his basic ideas and build them up into a compelling and convincing drama, they fucked it - either because they weren't capable or because they didn't care enough to do it properly. Or both. And this has been apparent from season five's Dorne nonsense onwards. It's just louder now because we were all hoping they'd somehow stick the landing at the very end.

[Alberon]

Just was writing a reply saying the same thing. Dornenders was where they were flying solo for the first time, and they fucked it. Fucked it totally to the point they just threw the Dorne characters into the bin and barely referred to the place again.

The overcompression of the story just makes the bad writing far more apparent as characters are forced into unearned final positions.

[BritishHobo]

The thing is, everyone's taking it as definitive proof that they can't write original stuff, that they are forever marked as 'only good at adapting', but I don't believe that follows. The only thing we know is that they struggled with taking an adaptation off-track when they ran out of source material but still had to pay-off all the plot strands. That's by no means proof that they lack any talent for original storytelling.

[Mister Six]

Dornenders was original storytelling and it was garbage.

(Yes, I know what you mean, but still...)

[Small Man Big Horse]

I've read David Benioff's novel City of Thieves and that started well but then disappointed, and if you look at his film work it's pretty shaky, so I have to say I'm not surprised they've fucked the ending. I'd hoped Martin had had enough input in to it that it might've been good, but that sadly doesn't seem to be the case.

[beanheadmcginty]

Tell you what though, this series has been an absolute boon for people who love the phrase "stick the landing". Virtually every article or comment I read about Game of Thrones talks about whether the producers are going to "stick the landing". I had never previously heard the phrase "stick the landing" before, but I'm guessing it's either used in ski jumping or gymnastics. Or maybe aeroplane piloting.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Yes, I think basically if you get your opinions from podcasts or reddit pages where people say hateful things like 'stick the landing' you probably hated it and thinK GOT is now officially the worst thing ever, whereas if you don't and like spectacular ridiculous nonsense you probably enjoyed it. I'm in the latter camp.

[Mister Six]

What if you get your opinions from not being a TOTAL THICKO LIKE YOU, EH? EH? BRING IT ON, I'LL KNOCK YOU AAHHHHHT.

[græskar]

I've never heard the phrase "stick the landing" and don't read reddit, but I do think it was utter crap. What are the odds?

[Dr Sanchez]

It's rather childish and reductive of people who like recent GOT to suggest that the critics of it are nerds or miserable cunts.

The show has just gone to shit and it used to be so fucking good that fans are rightly pissed off.

I wish it could have landed with perfect sticking but it has flown way off piste. I just wish I had a phrase to sum that up.

[Custard]

Piste off

Genuine question. What's better, Thrones or Lost?

I genuinely can't decide. Both had amazing moments, and great characters, and were wonderfully  entertaining  for  the  most  part.

But then both had shitty final episodes, that almost soured the rest of it.

SO WHICH WAS BETTER?

[Dr Sanchez]

Piste off

Genuine question. What's better, Thrones or Lost?

I genuinely can't decide. Both had amazing moments, and great characters, and were wonderfully  entertaining  for  the  most  part.

But then both had shitty final episodes, that almost soured the rest of it.

SO WHICH WAS BETTER?

I stopped watching Lost after Season two but didn't it go completely mental and shit to the point that no one talks about it anymore for fear of their ptsd flaring up?

Dexter is another show that could have went down as a classic had it not been for the utterly unforgivable tripe it turned into in later seasons.

[colacentral]

Yes, I think basically if you get your opinions from podcasts or reddit pages where people say hateful things like 'stick the landing' you probably hated it and thinK GOT is now officially the worst thing ever, whereas if you don't and like spectacular ridiculous nonsense you probably enjoyed it. I'm in the latter camp.

Why are you being so defensive? It's tedious, and all this "film studies nerd" stuff is deeply unpleasant. You post primarily in the politics threads, how would you like someone saying "fucking politics nerds, just vote Tory mate."

The writing is shoddy and rushed. Even within the limited parameters of six episodes it's below par - the season has somehow managed the feat of being both padded and rushed at the same time. I don't accept "just switch your brain off" as a counter to that, as it's a problem when I'm having no emotional reaction to anything that's happening in a series that's been on for eight seasons.

And I have never been a big fan - like you said, it's always been full of silly guff, I could never take it seriously. But it's obvious how much worse it is now, every single decision is either weak or just not as good as it could be. You can enjoy it for what it is, fine, but these threads are intended for people to discuss them. It seems weird to get annoyed at posters dissecting the writing when we're on a forum with thousands of pages on the minutiae of Alan Partridge amongst other things.

"Oh these nerds talking about the character development in Derek. Give us a break!"

[Dr Sanchez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeftoI3c81c

31:40

Ser Barristan's actor claims the books have already been written and GRRM is holding off releasing them until the series is finished?
Huge if true?

GRRM has come out and angrily denied this - http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

What the fuck was Ian McElhinney thinking? Lying for the sake of a bit of attention perhaps?

[Mobius]

Yeah that's weird.

How many viewers do you think have read the books? I'd be surprised if it's even 1/100

Just realised there hasn't been any tits in this season?

[dallasman]

Yeah that's weird.

How many viewers do you think have read the books? I'd be surprised if it's even 1/100

Just realised there hasn't been any tits in this season?

Oh yes there has. Tits with Bronn on. Bronn getting done by three chicks from a salon where he's a regular john. Bronn with a hardon getting his wooden gun with his blouse undone in episode one.

[Mobius]

Oh yes you're quite right. And we probably only got that scene because Cersei and Bronn aren't allowed near each other!

Wonder what Bronn does now? Tyrion is the only living character he's actually interacted with I think...

[dallasman]

Wonder what Bronn does now? Tyrion is the only living character he's actually interacted with I think...

He's waiting for Tyrion in some bushes (see below and default's very plausible scenario earlier)

I think my money's on an Azor Ahai resolution. I'm still unspoiled, so it's a guess, but it seems obvious, and obvious seems about right. Plus, it pays off on things vaguely seeded by Melisandre, whose magic was proven at Winterfell. Probably no time to re-introduce an expository Red Priestess, but they could have Mel's words echoing in AegJon's head like they did with Dany last time. He decides it's the only solution (?), puts his sword through her heart, possibly making it a magic superweapon that kills Drogon.

Then Sansa teleports the Vale army down to massacre the Dothraki and Unsullied in their sleep. When the corpses are cleared, Sansa decides she did rather prefer a Southern climate, so she appoints someone else thingy of the north and Person of Winterfell, gallivants down to KL and marries Jon, to rule the Seven Kingdoms by his side.

After the coronation, Arya mounts her white horse and just rides off. And as we follow her along the roads, across the hills and through the woods, we're shown a montage of the last remaining characters in their final moments; most dying within months, from their injuries or various plagues spreading from the corpse-choked craters of King's Landing. Tyrion done by Bronn, as suggested by someone. Jon and Sansa, unchanged from when last seen, killed by nondescript men in armour. Finally, Arya's horse slows down, and she dismounts, looking travel-weary but determined. She walks towards a man with his back to the audience. As he turns around, we switch angles to see Arya's initial surprise turn to a wry smile. We see the man's face, and it's Ned!?!

- I get it. 'Contact' reference, but it doesn't really work. We were doing a 'Six Feet Under' thing.

Ned grins unnaturally and reaches for his hairline; we cut back to Arya smiling wryly as he speaks:

- A girl has learned a lot".

It's only Jaqen bloody H'Gar! A second horse appears, and off they ride, both now smiling mysteriously. Credits.

That's a 10/10 finale for me, and I'll probably deduct a point for every bit of that that doesn't happen.

And did someone say spinoffs, as in plural? Sign me dufuck up for some of that on top of the prequels, then, amirite? "Faceless: The Adventures of Jack and Ari". First season is all about going west of Westeros and murdering people as a day gig, but also getting embroiled in ancient vendettas, searching for lost treasure, discovering weird little cultures and practicing their forbidden magic, with room left for a slow-boiling "should they-shouldn't they" romance between the recast, aged-down Jaqen and an Arya that can legitimately be called a women now, come on, be fair.

[Head Gardener]

[Gregory Torso]

Although I did enjoy this episode more than probably anything that's been in the last two seasons, there was just so much bad writing and nonsensical ends to characters (Qyburn going out like a bitch hitting his head on some stairs; Varys getting roasted for what, why did Tyrion grass him up if he was just going to let Jamie go anyway and probably get the roast himself; Hound v Mountain, bollocks).

The whole seige was great, really brutal and well filmed. Not quite as good as the white walker battle in episode 3, but still, from the action point of view, delivered. I mean, this is Game of Thrones, the acting has been bad for a while since all the proper actors got killed off so I'm not too bothered with that. Any scene with Jon and Dany is so bad, though, Emmerdale levels of acting.

Fetl genuinely moved during the scene between Tyrion and Jamie. And I was fine with Jamie's arc, too, ending up fucked at the same point he started from.

Urine getting shanked on some rocks and babbling away to no one, dying in delusion that he had made any kind of impact on anything. Wild-eyed muttonchop maritime bell end.

Seriously, quite pissed off that Varys just got singed up like that. I really hoped he and Tyrion would be the last two standing.

[NoSleep]

I really hoped he and Tyrion would be the last two standing.

Stannis and Littlefinger.

[phantom_power]

Endings are always hard to do and that increases exponential for long running, complex, beloved shows/stories. I think Martin is going to have (or already is having) this problem when he comes to finish the books. With books though you have a lot longer, both in terms of development time and storytelling time, to fix things

[NoSleep]

Also the option for sequels to the series (not sure how many years GRRM has in him, though).

[Custard]

GRMM is only 25. Just been a harsh couple years

[Beagle 2]

I don't actually understand why half these people have to die anyway. The way they're being picked off one by one with little rhyme or reason devalues the spirit of the show, where nobody was safe but it was always to develop the story in some kind of new direction. What's the point in the hound diving into a fire? Why did Varys have to buy it? The world doesn't have to end, I would like to think that this show will finish with the sense that all this shit will continue. Jamie and Cersei were the only ones who made some sort of sense, but it was a bit of an anticlimax. Cersei's entire involvement for the last series was to stare out of the window looking like she was brewing a big fart. You know, they kind of signposted that she would have an ace up her sleeve, but no.

I like that Dany has gone in this direction, but it's all so rushed, for such a lot of dollars up there on screen it felt as cheap as TV could be.

[sevendaughters]

I don't think GRRM will decisively end the story, he is just not that corny.