Author Topic: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)  (Read 11554 times)

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #120 on: July 12, 2019, 01:52:10 PM »
Buying into Spider-Man or superheroes more generally?

The latter. Its been over 10 years now.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2019, 12:33:50 AM »
The James Bond franchise has been pumping out formulaic movies for over fifty years and I still enjoy every single one that comes out (with a few notable exceptions). That's show business, baby!

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #122 on: July 13, 2019, 12:37:54 AM »
The James Bond franchise has been pumping out formulaic movies for over fifty years and I still enjoy every single one that comes out (with a few notable exceptions). That's show business, baby!

Right but that has been 25 films over the span of 60 years, it's hardly the same has the intense glut of superhero films in the past 7 or 8 years is it?

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #123 on: July 13, 2019, 02:34:02 AM »
Right but that has been 25 films over the span of 60 years, it's hardly the same has the intense glut of superhero films in the past 7 or 8 years is it?

True, but unlike most Bond films the Marvel films are actually very well made.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #124 on: July 13, 2019, 02:44:33 AM »
True, but unlike most Bond films the Marvel films are actually very well made.

Yeah, well made, coming right off the superhero production line, three a year. Boring as fuck.

Its like eating spaghetti bolognese for breakfast, dinner and tea every day. Yeah spag bol is fucking superb but surely after a week you'd want to vomit.

 

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #125 on: July 13, 2019, 02:55:23 AM »
Yeah, well made, coming right off the superhero production line, three a year. Boring as fuck.

Its like eating spaghetti bolognese for breakfast, dinner and tea every day. Yeah spag bol is fucking superb but surely after a week you'd want to vomit.

Not really, the movies are quite varied (for example, Spider Man: Far From Home) if you don't view them in the most oversimplified light. The differentiation from film to film usually becomes most clear after the 20 minute mark.

BritishHobo

  • That is a really reductive impression
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #126 on: July 13, 2019, 11:13:30 AM »
I'm with bgmnts. It really does feel like an assembly line telling pretty much the same story over and over again. Just thin bad guys with no real interesting motivation doing bad stuff just because. Kinda hint at some backstory but then they all just end up exactly the same KILL LOADS OF PEOPLE COS I WANT POWER NOW THANKS. Just endless. Fuckin three of them so far this year!

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2019, 12:17:10 PM »
You're having a laugh if you're saying Avengers: Endgame is the same as Spider-Man: FFH. If you're not actually watching them then your opinion is meaningless.

How would you just watch 20 minutes anyway? Shit download copy?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 12:29:41 PM by colacentral »

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2019, 12:44:18 PM »
I feel like something changed for me after I saw Endgame and suddenly realised I don't want to see any more of these kind of films. It was just like a switch flicked and I realised I didn't care any more.

BritishHobo

  • That is a really reductive impression
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2019, 03:20:57 PM »
You're having a laugh if you're saying Avengers: Endgame is the same as Spider-Man: FFH. If you're not actually watching them then your opinion is meaningless.

How would you just watch 20 minutes anyway? Shit download copy?

I'm not saying if you lay it out beat-for-beat there's no difference, but ultimately they're telling the same story about a powerful bloke who wants to kill loads of people for an unconvincing reason. A lot of people kept saying Thanos is a great character because you could almost be convinced by his motivations and his worldview, but those people were all wrong. He was a big purple alien who decided to wipe out half of the universe because of the nebulous concept of 'balance'. It wasn't really explored in any depth and it's basically no different to Jake Gyllenhaal deciding to kill a load of people because his thinly-sketched dislike of Tony Stark escalates for no reason. They're just empty motivations to dress up the same conflicts. Captain America 2 and Captain Marvel are to me the only films in the whole franchise to feel like they're even attempting to blink at other themes.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #130 on: July 13, 2019, 03:35:39 PM »
You're having a laugh if you're saying Avengers: Endgame is the same as Spider-Man: FFH. If you're not actually watching them then your opinion is meaningless.

How would you just watch 20 minutes anyway? Shit download copy?

Netflix. Got 20 minutes in, same shitty dialogue with the forced humour in every fucking sentence, same Robert Downey smug fuck Jr, same obnoxious characters speaking in that fucking tone. I hate it all its so fucking boring.

I thought after endgame people would be done with it but nope.

samadriel

  • WHA' HAPPEN?
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #131 on: July 13, 2019, 03:48:10 PM »
Sorry, watching 20 minutes of any film isn't sufficient. Either watch the thing and post your judgments, or fuck off out of the thread.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #132 on: July 13, 2019, 03:50:24 PM »
Sorry, watching 20 minutes of any film isn't sufficient. Either watch the thing and post your judgments, or fuck off out of the thread.

I've seen the exact same film 12 times in the past 3 years, that's my point silly billy.

samadriel

  • WHA' HAPPEN?
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #133 on: July 13, 2019, 03:59:38 PM »
Sorry, I assumed from the inaccuracy of your characterisation that you'd only seen 20 minutes of any of them.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #134 on: July 13, 2019, 04:41:33 PM »
Nah I pushed myself through all of them. Guardians 1, Thor Ragnarok, Deadpool 1 and Logan (if that counts) are the only ones worth anything.

Logan is the only one with an interesting story that merits its runtime.


On a positive, Tom Holland is a good Spiderman, he feels like a teenager, albeit a bit of a knowing cunt.

But then they got it right first time with Toby Maguire so what is point.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #135 on: July 13, 2019, 08:22:33 PM »
If you take the forced swearing and over the top violence out of Logan it's not notably different from any other comic book films, if we're boiling them down so simplistically.

I'm not saying if you lay it out beat-for-beat there's no difference, but ultimately they're telling the same story about a powerful bloke who wants to kill loads of people for an unconvincing reason. A lot of people kept saying Thanos is a great character because you could almost be convinced by his motivations and his worldview, but those people were all wrong. He was a big purple alien who decided to wipe out half of the universe because of the nebulous concept of 'balance'. It wasn't really explored in any depth and it's basically no different to Jake Gyllenhaal deciding to kill a load of people because his thinly-sketched dislike of Tony Stark escalates for no reason. They're just empty motivations to dress up the same conflicts. Captain America 2 and Captain Marvel are to me the only films in the whole franchise to feel like they're even attempting to blink at other themes.

You're describing every action film ever made. And most westerns, except the stakes are usually lower. Also Star Wars, Flash Gordon, The Monster Squad, The Exorcist, Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Some bad dude wants to kill / take over everything.

It's patronising to assume that people watching these films don't already know that they aren't reinventing the wheel. They are being watched for different reasons than we watch Werner Herzog: they're rollercoasters or video games as opposed to a walk through a museum. That doesn't mean that we have lower standards - Marvel makes these films better than anybody else, and they've become experts at balancing serialised storytelling with standalone films; knowing when to subvert expectations and when to adapt from comics faithfully, etc. And part of the joy for me is in seeing how they approach the source material - for example, what they've done with Mysterio here is amazing, the best possible way to portray that character. And that character could only be done that way within the tapestry of the wider universe they've created.

If you're watching these casually and have no interest in comic characters to begin with then you're not going to get it. It's wrong to diminish what an achievement they are though.

For the record, I never agreed with the hyperbole around Thanos either. I think Michael Keaton's Vulture is a much more compelling villain. Everyone knows that villains have always been the weakest part of the Marvel films.

And Re: Captain America 2 and Captain Marvel. What about Black Panther as another obvious one? Guardians 2 is also seriously underrated and much more grounded, less of a "superhero film" than many others in the MCU. Ragnarok is almost an out and out comedy.

I felt similar to you around Age of Ultron in terms of fatigue, and I think most of the phase 1 films in particular are pretty weak and generic, but I think in general they've got much better in the last few years.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #136 on: July 13, 2019, 08:25:18 PM »
Just to clarify I WAS a big superhero nerd way back in the early to late 00s, so I am well aware of them and did have a major interest in them, these films have diminished them. Same with Star Wars to be honest. I just want something new.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #137 on: July 13, 2019, 08:29:21 PM »
Netflix. Got 20 minutes in, same shitty dialogue with the forced humour in every fucking sentence, same Robert Downey smug fuck Jr, same obnoxious characters speaking in that fucking tone. I hate it all its so fucking boring.

I thought after endgame people would be done with it but nope.

Homecoming, like most of these films, gets better as it goes on, so 20 minutes obviously isn't a fair appraisal. Even so, I assume you're not a comic fan, because it's a joy to me to see an authentically young Spider-Man portrayed on film, particularly in the early parts of that film. Stopping a bike theif, "do a flip!", etc. In fact, those early sequences are completely unlike any other superhero film I can think of, and exemplify exactly how these MCU films aren't carbon copies of each other.

Edit: just saw your tobey maguire comment. Bollocks, he's shite: a soppy cunt and 15 years too old.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #138 on: July 13, 2019, 08:38:41 PM »
I was a comic book fan yeah, I read the comics, I liked them.
I'm pretty sure I did specifically point out Tom Holland is a good spiderman though.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #139 on: July 14, 2019, 12:24:11 PM »
"I don't like superhero films and therefore they are bad. "

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Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #140 on: July 14, 2019, 12:32:19 PM »
I'm pretty sure I did specifically point out Tom Holland is a good spiderman though.

That is insufficient.  You have to point out that Tom Holland is a minimum of two good spidermen.

BritishHobo

  • That is a really reductive impression
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #141 on: July 14, 2019, 02:39:30 PM »
"I don't like superhero films and therefore they are bad. "

Definitely what's being said.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #142 on: July 14, 2019, 04:38:14 PM »
"I don't like superhero films and therefore they are bad. "

X Men 2 is one of my favourite films of all time.
J

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #143 on: July 14, 2019, 04:59:14 PM »
I can see the argument that some of these films are similar, and when I did a rewatch of the whole MCU before Endgame I did find myself getting pretty bored at times. But at the same time, it's also a series of films that includes Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2, Captain America: Civil War and Black Panther which are all incredibly different to each other. And others genuinely subvert the format, Thor: Ragnarok being a great example (basically a daft comedy knockabout with a quick 'the only way to save Asgard is by destroying Asgard' denouement).

I think you do have to have a bit of a commitment to the overall MCU to care heavily about watching every single film. I've always been so-so about superhero films, and it's the interconnectedness of the whole thing that really pulled me in (I'm glad some of the TV series are going to be more closely related to the films in the coming years, as since the third series of Agents of SHIELD they've been disappointingly unconnected*), as with the lesser films, recurring characters, themes and hints of things to come are what gets me through the odd uninteresting plot.

That said, it's still only three films a year. I probably watch 50 films a year. Three of those being superhero films doesn't really feel like anything dramatic. When they've got engaging characters, good visuals and a striking enough plot I'm happy to ride through some of the faults. Even the post-Whedon humour doesn't grate too much. I thought Spiderman: Far From Home was great. Not top 5 MCU, but definitely top 10. Despite much of the first two-thirds it was ultimately enjoyably low-stakes and character-led, and did enough to create a post-Endgame world to allow the series to be able to start afresh (somewhat) in Phase 4, or whatever they're calling it.


*the fact that the scientist parents in the second series of Runaways are excited that they've discovered proof of alien life, post-Avengers, is ludicrous.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #144 on: July 14, 2019, 05:13:23 PM »
It's like watching a 22 episode of a season of TV. Each one is a bit different and generally self-contained but they operate in the same world and so will have tonal similarities and a season-long arc running through them.

And it is possible to watch these films and other ones as well. There isn't an exclusive relationship and these films don't stop others from existing. There should be more scorn for the other films around that don't offer a satisfying alternative

samadriel

  • WHA' HAPPEN?
Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #145 on: July 15, 2019, 07:36:42 AM »
That said, it's still only three films a year. I probably watch 50 films a year. Three of those being superhero films doesn't really feel like anything dramatic.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #146 on: July 15, 2019, 08:10:37 AM »
But they often have baddies trying to destroy the world so therefore they are terrible.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2019, 04:13:00 PM »
It's like watching a 22 episode of a season of TV. Each one is a bit different and generally self-contained but they operate in the same world and so will have tonal similarities and a season-long arc running through them.

And it is possible to watch these films and other ones as well. There isn't an exclusive relationship and these films don't stop others from existing. There should be more scorn for the other films around that don't offer a satisfying alternative

They do sort of stop other films existing though. There are only so many mega-blockbusters that can be released every year, and Marvel/Disney are swallowing up a lot of that market.

I like the Marvel films, but I do think they're all a bit too similar. They feel almost cynically engineered, to the point where they're always pretty good, but never really doing anything much new. Even the slightly more interesting ones like Thor:Ragnarock aren't hugely different to the rest of the pack.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #148 on: July 15, 2019, 04:14:38 PM »
They do sort of stop other films existing though. There are only so many mega-blockbusters that can be released every year, and Marvel/Disney are swallowing up a lot of that market.

I like the Marvel films, but I do think they're all a bit too similar. They feel almost cynically engineered, to the point where they're always pretty good, but never really doing anything much new. Even the slightly more interesting ones like Thor:Ragnarock aren't hugely different to the rest of the pack.

They're not similar at all you just hate superhero films.

Re: Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
« Reply #149 on: July 15, 2019, 05:07:26 PM »
I felt similar to you around Age of Ultron in terms of fatigue, and I think most of the phase 1 films in particular are pretty weak and generic, but I think in general they've got much better in the last few years.

Yep I'd agree with that, the earlier films did generally feel like less successful attempts to follow the first Ironman film, the first Avengers was also well done but at that point it did feel like a franchise with a more limited shelf life. Around 2014 though I think you started to see it diversify, The Winter Solider as a more serious spy thriller, the first Guardians as a more Flash Gordon like space fantasy and from that point I think Marvel has generally offered enough variety to keep things flesh. I wouldn't say all the films since have been great but almost all of them have had something to recommend them.

Whilst Marvel are very successful I wouldn't say there really stopping all other blockbuster films, its moreso than Hollywood besides them has both put out a lot of crap and has generally played its safe. By comparison I don't think Marvel actually have played it that safe, besides Spiderman and the Hulk your not dealing with characters who really are pop culture icons in the same way say Starwars, Potter, Trek, etc are. Most people wouldn't have had a clue who the Guardians of the Galaxy characters were before the films were made for example.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 05:18:03 PM by greenman »

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