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Red Dwarf Series I-VIII Blu-Ray Boxset is Shite

Started by St_Eddie, January 15, 2019, 10:46:53 PM

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St_Eddie

I've been reading some of the opinions on it (on other sites) and there's some very dubious colour "corrections" made to the episodes and the actual picture quality is often less clear than the DVD versions.  Here's a comparison between the DVD and Blu-Ray versions, from the episode 'Demons & Angels'...



DVD release, there.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And the Blu-Ray release, there.  Complete with the removal of John Pomphrey's very purposeful red gel lighting, which was used to emphasise the nastiness of the low version of the ship and its crew.

===================================================================

Now let's take a look at the series VI episode, 'Psirens'...




DVD version.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Blu-Ray here.  Disregard the change in colour for a moment and look towards the long grill above Kryten's head, in the background.  Compare it to the DVD release and you'll notice that the long grill has much better and sharper definition in the DVD version.  Also, the grill to its left has a nasty differing effect in the Blu-Ray version, which wasn't there in the original DVD release (it's hard to see in this screengrabs which I've resized for the forum but you can take my word for it).

===================================================================

Furthermore, there's some weird shaking and flickering effects, due to the haphazard and amateurish way in which the clean up process was applied.  Apparently, the series which has seen the most noticeable improvement, without unwanted alteration, is series VIII.  You know, the one series that everyone rightfully despises because it's one of the worst things ever committed to television.

Also, there's no scene select options and all of the bonus material is the same stuff from the DVD releases (it's comprehensive and fascinating material, to be fair), right down to the bonus discs literally being the same disc authored DVDs (they're not Blu-Rays) from those initial releases.  Shitty animated menus and all.

Oh, and the episode 'Thanks for the Memory' is listed as 'Thanks for the Memories' on the episode select screen.

Don't think I'll bother "upgrading" my DVDs with this release.



(In all fairness though, if you don't own the DVDs and want to buy series I-VIII with a veritable bevy of bonus material, then this Blu-Ray boxset offers outstanding value for money, at only £40)

Replies From View

As somebody known as Darrell points out on Ganymede and Titan:

QuoteDialling out the deliberate red gel lighting from the Low bits of Demons & Angels?! Jesus. Nice that the previous Red Dwarf Bluray release featured a long documentary about the achievements of John Pomphrey and how he achieved a stylised pop-art/graphic novel/heavy metal album cover colour aesthetic, and the current Bluray treats his work like an error to be fixed.

Replies From View

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 15, 2019, 10:46:53 PM
(it's hard to see in this screengrabs which I've resized for the forum but you can take my word for it)

You don't need to resize for this forum; just use a number like "img width=500" to make the full-sized image sit nicely in your post, and then people can click on it to get a larger image.

Like this (hit quote to see the code):






All that said, I can't see a problem with that particular image apart from the regrading.  There are apparently worse wibbly errors elsewhere.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Replies From View on January 15, 2019, 11:26:55 PM
All that said, I can't see a problem with that particular image apart from the regrading...

Again, look at the grates above Kryten's head.  The left side of the longer grate is a blurry mess on the Blu-Ray version, whereas you can make out the individual slates in the DVD version.  The square grate to the left of that (directly above Kryten's head) has a differing effect on the Blu-Ray screengrab, which isn't present on the DVD version.

With your enlargeable versions of the screengrabs (thanks for that), I'm not sure how you can't see what I'm talking about.

magval

(Although I know the real answer is "easy money") I can't understand the BBC's recent dedication to releasing standard definition shows SHOT ON VIDEO on a high-definition format. It's fucking ridiculous. At least Hitchhiker's had new extras.

Replies From View

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 15, 2019, 11:43:46 PM
Again, look at the grates above Kryten's head.  The left side of the longer grate is a blurry mess on the Blu-Ray version, whereas you can make out the individual slates in the DVD version.  The square grate to the left of that (directly above Kryten's head) has a differing effect on the Blu-Ray screengrab, which isn't present on the DVD version.

With your enlargeable versions of the screengrabs (thanks for that), I'm not sure how you can't see what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it's not so obvious to me.

I'd be more concerned about things like this, for example (unfortunately it's mobile phone footage but you can see the issue regardless):  https://twitter.com/bromley001/status/1083890976408637440?s=19

St_Eddie

Quote from: magval on January 15, 2019, 11:44:19 PM
At least Hitchhiker's had new extras.

Indeed.  That's what convinced me to buy a copy on Blu-Ray.  Although, I do think that they did a decent job with improving the colour grading too.

Quote from: Replies From View on January 15, 2019, 11:46:08 PM
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it's not so obvious to me.

Well, yeah.  It's not obvious and it's something I had to look for but that's how you evaluate a new transfer; you look towards the little details and things such as grates are great for that sort of thing.  Grates are great!

Quote from: Replies From View on January 15, 2019, 11:46:08 PM
I'd be more concerned about things like this, for example (unfortunately it's mobile phone footage but you can see the issue regardless):  https://twitter.com/bromley001/status/1083890976408637440?s=19

Aye.  That was the shaking I was referring to in my original post.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: magval on January 15, 2019, 11:44:19 PM
(Although I know the real answer is "easy money") I can't understand the BBC's recent dedication to releasing standard definition shows SHOT ON VIDEO on a high-definition format. It's fucking ridiculous. At least Hitchhiker's had new extras.

It is quite weird. SD shows would be less compressed on blu ray, so if handled properly they can be improved from the DVDs, but it's odd that they decided it's even worth it. We know these series can't be in proper HD, but does everyone else? I'm sure they're not trying to trick people but it's not like they can put a disclaimer on the box.
I really like the idea of them doing it for classic Doctor Who though, for the sake of convenience (and the few bits of footage they shot on film, for posterity) - I love that they have every special feature collected easily, and they've put a lot of effort into making new features too.

Chriddof

Quote from: TwinPeaks on January 16, 2019, 12:06:46 AM
We know these series can't be in proper HD, but does everyone else?

I think that's the problem. Blu-Rays are capable of storing SD video (and with the bonus of a capacity vastly outstretching DVD), but of course when people buy them they expect everything to be in 1080p by default, so someone somewhere has decided to embark on this nonsense as so to placate this audience.

I also think the way that you can restore stuff shot decades and decades ago on 16mm / 35mm film to HD has confused the public - I've seen discussions elsewhere on the net asking why can't they restore Fawlty Towers to HD. This seems to be due to some weird misunderstanding from the recurring film exteriors throughout the show.

Quote from: Replies From View on January 15, 2019, 11:22:55 PM
As somebody known as Darrell points out on Ganymede and Titan:
QuoteDialling out the deliberate red gel lighting from the Low bits of Demons & Angels?! Jesus. Nice that the previous Red Dwarf Bluray release featured a long documentary about the achievements of John Pomphrey and how he achieved a stylised pop-art/graphic novel/heavy metal album cover colour aesthetic, and the current Bluray treats his work like an error to be fixed.

It's a bit like they got the clueless trainee in to do the whole set. "Ah, this bit's all faded to red - they must have recorded it on Eastmancolor tape. Better fix that."

purlieu

From the various reports I've seen, it seems the BluRay set is mostly fine when watching on its own, but when you compare it to the DVDs there are bits which stand out as, basically, horrible.

Here's a shot from the DVD of Marooned:

And here's the BluRay version:


It's the equivalent of someone first discovering the brightness/contrast and unsharp mask functions in Photoshop and just over-using them on everything.

They could have just done a completely uncompressed version of the original, which would have added a minuscule improvement, and thrown the extras in with new menus and whacked it all into one box. But adding new colour grades and messing with the contrast just feels like a subtler version of what Doug was trying to achieve with the Remastered version in 1997: "I don't want it to look like a late '80s / early '90s sitcom". Yeah, that grimier, yellow-tinged look dates it a little, but it's also part of the original show. By removing it, and taking out all of the wonderful mood lighting in the process, it just feels like pointless revisionism. Throw in several accounts of weird wobbles and strange lines in captions and closing credits, the unnecessary artefacting is enough to take away from any slight improvements in image quality (other than VIII, apparently, which means we get to see the garish sets & costumes, and shit blocky '70s sci-fi fonts in even better quality, hurray).

The price is good for a newcomer to the show, and with a very gradual shift towards BluRay it makes sense in that perspective. But it's been heavily marketed at existing fans, and containing no new extras means it's got to be pretty exceptional to warrant a repurchase. There's an argument that it's also good for those after the long-out-of-print Bodysnatcher Collection DVD set, and it does contain most of the extras from that, but even then Doug and Ed's Remastered commentaries are presented over a still image, meaning it's impossible to tell what they're reacting to, and the frequently amusing 'what's changed' text track is of course not present, which means it can't replace that box set for those hoping to downsize.

Ultimately, the visuals seem too much of a mixed bag to make it a worthy addition to the DVDs, and the extras aren't quite complete enough to replace the entire DVD collection. I'm absolutely certain Doug put a lot of time and effort into it, but once again it just shows he's totally missed the point as to what made - and sometimes still makes - the show so great. Inventive ideas, strong character comedy and brilliant one liners made the initial run, and plenty of moments of the Dave era, brilliantly rewatchable. Fucking about with the image, potentially to its detriment, seems so pointless in comparison.

edit: also the blurb on the back is appalling with almost no punctuation. Throw in the lack of booklets like the original DVDs, the fact that Thanks for the Memory is called Thanks for the Memories, and the lack of scene selection, and it shows how little attention to detail exists in the GNP product department these days, after a pretty much flawless DVD campaign back in the '00s. But then what can we expect from the people who printed the series XII titles on the rear of the series XI steelbook, 10 months before XII was due to air.

St_Eddie

Quote from: purlieu on January 16, 2019, 12:30:53 AM
...There's an argument that it's also good for those after the long-out-of-print Bodysnatcher Collection DVD set, and it does contain most of the extras from that, but even then Doug and Ed's Remastered commentaries are presented over a still image, meaning it's impossible to tell what they're reacting to, and the frequently amusing 'what's changed' text track is of course not present, which means it can't replace that box set for those hoping to downsize.

I'm glad that I purchased The Bodysnatcher Collection whilst it was still in print.  The extras on it are great.  It's sorta nice to have the remastered episodes as well, I suppose, just for the completionist in me (and as you say it's fun to watch them with the highly entertaining 'what's changed' text track).

Replies From View

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 16, 2019, 12:42:50 AM
I'm glad that I purchased The Bodysnatcher Collection whilst it was still in print.  The extras on it are great.  It's sorta nice to have the remastered episodes as well, I suppose, just for the completionist in me (and as you say it's fun to watch them with the highly entertaining 'what's changed' text track).

The blurays contain the 6 commentary tracks that appeared on The Bodysnatcher Collection, but as audio only, not with the remastered episodes that they accompanied.

Edit:  sorry, purlieu already said that!


If this was meant to be the final comprehensive release of the classic stuff on blu ray, they arguably should have included the full Smeg Outs and Smeg Ups videos (available as 'Just the Smegs' on DVD, albeit with parts from the VHS release about old competitions and merchandise edited out), and the complete Six of the Best audio with Grant, Naylor and Bye (which was chopped up and spread out across the DVDs but I have a feeling those are edited; regardless it would have been nice for fans to have it in its original form).

Replies From View

Also, nobody has mentioned yet how much of a downgrade the box art is.



I mean look at the state of it.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Replies From View on January 16, 2019, 01:16:19 AM
Also, nobody has mentioned yet how much of a downgrade the box art is.



I mean look at the state of it.

I'm actually quite a big fan of the use of colour in that art and I like the basic simplistic concept of it.  It's the execution that's the problem.  In that regard, it's very apt for this Blu-Ray collection, all things considered.

Replies From View

Is the scoop of Red Dwarf underneath it there?

Zoom in on this one:



The colours might be fine but apart from that it's all just shite.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Replies From View on January 16, 2019, 01:55:30 AM
Is the scoop of Red Dwarf underneath it there?

It is.  It's a clever statement on how Red Dwarf itself is better than a scoop... of, uh... ice cream.

No, it's shite, isn't it?

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: TwinPeaks on January 16, 2019, 12:06:46 AM
It is quite weird. SD shows would be less compressed on blu ray, so if handled properly they can be improved from the DVDs, but it's odd that they decided it's even worth it. We know these series can't be in proper HD, but does everyone else? I'm sure they're not trying to trick people but it's not like they can put a disclaimer on the box.
I really like the idea of them doing it for classic Doctor Who though, for the sake of convenience (and the few bits of footage they shot on film, for posterity) - I love that they have every special feature collected easily, and they've put a lot of effort into making new features too.

Dr who is a special case where in some cases they've managed to combine 16mm monochrome scans that were sent to non-pal territories with the colour information captured on (lower quality) video.

Avril Lavigne

Quote from: Replies From View on January 16, 2019, 01:55:30 AM
Is the scoop of Red Dwarf underneath it there?

I thought these covers were bad enough already but that's ridiculous.  How does that even happen?  Did the artist only use one reference image, glanced briefly on a phone screen with the brightness set to minimum, and just think 'yes I'll easily remember how that looks; I've seen shapes before' ?

purlieu

Here's the original image the ship on the cover is based on:

You can see how it's happened... but it looks shit. Also, the pencil-shaped ship obviously works better in context of the design, but given that it's only used in eight of the 52 episodes in the set (what with it not including Remastered), it's also kind of baffling.

What bugs me most about the design, though, is the planets. It's a horrible cartoonised version of space for a show which is largely about roaming about aimlessly on a space ship... planets and moons only appear in 18 episodes, half of which are only present for a brief crash at the start or end of the episode. But we get this 'lots of brightly coloured planets with rings and everything' design which looks like a six year old drew it. Totally unrepresentative of the show. 

"If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. If it's not worth doing, give it to the '10s GNP DVD/BR department"

madhair60

No amount of digital colour correction can make Red Dwarf funny, I'm afraid.

Lister: 'Ere Kryten, this space jalfrezi tastes a bit suss!

Kryten: Quite the delicacy on Planet Backchops IX. That is an alien's dick, Sir.

Lister: (Gagging) It's an alien's todger!??

^ Actual dialogue

purlieu


daf

#21
Quote from: purlieu on January 16, 2019, 03:13:29 PM
No aliens in Red Dwarf, mate.

Quite realistic - not because there aren't any out there, (because there most likely are) * . . . but the space separating even the closest solar systems is so mind-blowingly huge, that you could never meet anyone else - even going at light speed.

- - - - - - - -
* (given the astronomically huge amounts of habitable planets - currently estimated at 11 billion (11,000,000,000) Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars in just the Milky Way (our galaxy) - which itself is only one of 100-200 billion galaxies in the Universe (11,000,000,000 x 100,000,000,000 = ???@!!!) - there's got to be at least a couple of clumps of space-broccoli growing out there)

Twed

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 15, 2019, 10:46:53 PMDisregard the change in colour for a moment and look towards the long grill above Kryten's head, in the background.  Compare it to the DVD release and you'll notice that the long grill has much better and sharper definition in the DVD version.  Also, the grill to its left has a nasty differing effect in the Blu-Ray version, which wasn't there in the original DVD release
This is a very Red Dwarf fan thing to say (just pointing this out in good humour, not to criticise or belittle you; I appreciate the analysis).

When it comes to Red Dwarf I'm just happy when they don't have crappy comedy skutters CGIed into scenes.

Alberon

Quote from: purlieu on January 16, 2019, 03:00:55 PM
What bugs me most about the design, though, is the planets. It's a horrible cartoonised version of space for a show which is largely about roaming about aimlessly on a space ship... planets and moons only appear in 18 episodes, half of which are only present for a brief crash at the start or end of the episode. But we get this 'lots of brightly coloured planets with rings and everything' design which looks like a six year old drew it. Totally unrepresentative of the show. 

I wouldn't have minded if they'd had one that looked like Felicity Kendall's bottom.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Twed on January 16, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
This is a very Red Dwarf fan thing to say (just pointing this out in good humour, not to criticise or belittle you; I appreciate the analysis).

It's not a "very Red Dwarf fan thing to say".  It's a 'very keen observer of film transfer' thing to say.  The fact that it's Red Dwarf is irrelevant.  I do this same analysis for any new SD to HD transfer that I'm interested in.  Doesn't mean that I'm not a geek (because I am) and I'm sure there's a crossover between Red Dwarf fans and transfer analysts but it's not exclusive to Red Dwarf.  So NERRRRR.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Replies From View on January 16, 2019, 01:55:30 AM
Is the scoop of Red Dwarf underneath it there?

Looks like a space coffin on a stand. Appropriate.

mjwilson

The Buffy HD transfer was dodgy as well, inappropriately made to be widescreen and some nighttime sequences became daytime because they forgot to reapply the colour grading (or whatever the appropriate technological term is).

Twed

Quote from: St_Eddie on January 16, 2019, 05:32:10 PM
It's not a "very Red Dwarf fan thing to say".  It's a 'very keen observer of film transfer' thing to say.  The fact that it's Red Dwarf is irrelevant.  I do this same analysis for any new SD to HD transfer that I'm interested in.  Doesn't mean that I'm not a geek (because I am) and I'm sure there's a crossover between Red Dwarf fans and transfer analysts but it's not exclusive to Red Dwarf.  So NERRRRR.
Nah, it's just that analyzing grates is a very a classic 90s-style anorak and Thermos nerd thing to do. Context is irrelevant.

Phil_A

Quote from: mjwilson on January 16, 2019, 06:15:19 PM
The Buffy HD transfer was dodgy as well, inappropriately made to be widescreen and some nighttime sequences became daytime because they forgot to reapply the colour grading (or whatever the appropriate technological term is).

Yeah, it's appalling. If you've got Amazon Prime it's on there. There's all kinds of issues like effects overlays being missing, horrible image smoothing applied to scenes seemingly at random, crew members being visible in shot, etc.

Whoever did the X-Files HD upgrade did a brilliant job, however. The only issues are a few sequences(mainly stock footage) that have been noticably sourced from HD, other than that it looks fantastic.

daf

#29
Quote from: Twed on January 16, 2019, 07:31:55 PM
Thermos nerd

It is now time for your weak Lemon drink

(Do the hobbies . . . DO THEM!!)