Topic: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH

[Replies From View]

Yes, that is what the fifth incarnation of this thread is called.

[Paul Calf]

Boycott long-running allcaps threads

That is all.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I prefer the above title^ I have to say.

[ajsmith2]

Suppose they gave a Brexit and nobody came.

[Howj Begg]

Suppose they gave a Brexit and nobody came.

I've been to Brexit, but I've never been to me.

[Huxleys Babkins]

From the previous thread:

She also wants to change the Good Friday Agreement. Completely delusional.

She doesn't really. She just wants to tie parliament up in knots over it to run the clock down a bit further.

[Paul Calf]

IF WE'RE GOING TO USE THIS THREAD PLEASE COULD YOU DECAP THE TITLE?

[Buelligan]

White vinegar or citric acid would do it, quickly and efficiently.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Ah you missed the chance to name it Cab TV: Brexit And Shit. That way Biggytitbo would never enter the thread.

[Nowhere Man]

Ah you missed the chance to name it Cab TV: Brexit And Shit. That way Biggytitbo would never enter the thread.

Couldn't we just call it something completely inaccessible to him so he'd never even twig on? Like, "Growing your hair long" or something.

[Alberon]

Or Chris Chibnall Appreciation Thread?


Theresa May, despite all the denials does seem to playing the game of running down the clock to force MPs to vote for her deal. Finally opening up talks with other parties last week has proved to be nothing more than May explaining to them in person why they are wrong.

So what's the next tactic to spin out a few more days and make the only choice be between her already dismissed deal or a No Deal Brexit?

[Paul Calf]

I reckon she should clutch her chest and fall on the floor pretending to have a heart attack like Uncle Albert in that episode about the supermarket.

[Buelligan]

So what's the next tactic to spin out a few more days and make the only choice be between her already dismissed deal or a No Deal Brexit?

Pretend to talk to the EU about the backstop (which she knows cannot be negotiated) to get more idiot Britfasc tories nodding along with sympathy and even more sand through the glass.

[biggytitbo]

Ohh no, I'm here.


Whatever happened to that amendment that said May had to come back with a new proposal within 3 days? Did she just ignore it? And could she just ignore any other amendments and parliamentary manoverings too (eg to block no deal etc)?

[shiftwork2]

Haven’t read the previous four threads so could someone sum up the issues in a sentence, alright nice one cheers

[Paul Calf]

Nice try

Ireland's relationship with the UK is already radically different than other EU countries, for obvious reasons, and we have many arrangements with ireland that predate the EU. There is no need for a hard border (and indeed there won't be one as everyone has made clear), certainly not if it threatens the peace process, and as Richard Tuck explains here, WTO rules already have provisions for this situation in any case - https://briefingsforbrexit.com/a-modest-proposal-for-the-irish-border/

So a Brexit where Britain doesn't control its border with the EU is OK now, is it?

Article XXI.b.3 speaks of both war and “an emergency in international relations”, and it is this latter phrase which would apply to the Anglo-Irish relationship in the event of a sudden break between Britain and the EU.

The only way out of the idiotic bind that Brexit has put us in is to declare an international emergency.

Nice.

[phantom_power]

Brexit Thread 5: The Old Destroy & Brexit

[hummingofevil]

What is a hard border anyway? What are the important issues either way?

In terms of movement of people (for holidays at least) you need to show passport if you are travelling from France to either UK or Ireland but not between the Republic and NI. So that doesn’t have to change in principle and that should be enough to solve “protecting the borders“ issue from Brexiter point of view.

In terms of work the current status quo of people in NI essnetually having a choice between UK or Irish or both passports has a lot of importance culturally but little in terms of reality as the right to work and trade either side of border is same regardless.

But what about trade and regulation? What happens in terms of trade if there is a no deal Brexit? What are the risks to both sides of you have no physical checkpoints but with no alignment over policy and regulation. In long term I can see how argument is that Ireland (and hence EU) can get flooded with goods from a different juristriction but how does this currently work given the fact Ireland has different taxation levels.

Do UK authorities just turn a blind eye to it, are there existing border checks or is there a more subtle process?

[biggytitbo]

So a Brexit where Britain doesn't control its border with the EU is OK now, is it?

This is a very silly point. We've had a passport union with Ireland for over 90 years, whos arguing we change that now?

[Sherman Krank]

Whatever happened to that amendment that said May had to come back with a new proposal within 3 days?

After 3 sitting days.
Which equates to sometime around half three this afternoon.
I'm surprised a Brexit expert like yourself is unaware of this.

[Replies From View]

Ah you missed the chance to name it Cab TV: Brexit And Shit. That way Biggytitbo would never enter the thread.

Or something along the lines of Jodie Whittaker’s stint as the Doctor being perfectly canon.


Edit:  sorry, Alberon got there first:

Or Chris Chibnall Appreciation Thread?

[Buelligan]

What is a hard border anyway? What are the important issues either way?

In terms of movement of people (for holidays at least) you need to show passport if you are travelling from France to either UK or Ireland but not between the Republic and NI. So that doesn’t have to change in principle and that should be enough to solve “protecting the borders“ issue from Brexiter point of view.

In terms of work the current status quo of people in NI essnetually having a choice between UK or Irish or both passports has a lot of importance culturally but little in terms of reality as the right to work and trade either side of border is same regardless.

But what about trade and regulation? What happens in terms of trade if there is a no deal Brexit? What are the risks to both sides of you have no physical checkpoints but with no alignment over policy and regulation. In long term I can see how argument is that Ireland (and hence EU) can get flooded with goods from a different juristriction but how does this currently work given the fact Ireland has different taxation levels.

Do UK authorities just turn a blind eye to it, are there existing border checks or is there a more subtle process?

I'm not sure why you think the passport issue doesn't have to change post Brexit. 

Consider removing the freedom of movement thingy - something very high on most Leavers' checklists - how does that mesh with no passports, no borders, no checks?  If it doesn't matter, then why have getting rid of freedom of movement as a big thing we must achieve?

As well as human traffic, there are as many issues with taxation, regulation and law for goods and services crossing that border as there are for the borders at the ports.  Again, if control and regulation of these areas matter - a reason people want out - they have to be enforced, otherwise, what is point?

Then, on the Irish border issue, you have the unimaginably huge fucking can of worms currently lidded by the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement.  You really need to read about it, read about Britain's conquest and rule of the island of Ireland and the terrible divisions and violence that has sprung directly from it, understand, to a degree at least, Britain's responsibility for it and its responsibility to do everything in its power to prevent any more bloodshed or anguish.  I simply cannot believe that any sane person could start fiddling around with this, it's beyond unacceptable IMO.

[biggytitbo]

After 3 sitting days.
Which equates to sometime around half three this afternoon.
I'm surprised a Brexit expert like yourself is unaware of this.

Doh, I could have swore that vote was last monday. Doesn't time drag when you're having such brexit fun.



Prayers? Is that just Theresa May, she needs a miracle.

[BlodwynPig]

Yes, that is what the fifth incarnation of this thread is called.

Worse than Biggy for stealing my glory

[olliebean]

This is a very silly point. We've had a passport union with Ireland for over 90 years, whos arguing we change that now?

90 years ago, Ireland was not part of the EU. Makes a difference.

[BlodwynPig]

The proposed conversion of Coy's site at Seaton Delaval into luxury accommodation that no-one in the area can afford, is the biggest scandal. I hope Theresa May resigns after this debacle.

[biggytitbo]

90 years ago, Ireland was not part of the EU. Makes a difference.

Yes, that's the whole point - what's that got to do with Paul's hot take about 'how is this securing our borders'? Why would anyone advocating this as a reason for leaving the EU include Ireland anyway? Everyone acknowledges there are some very specific special circumstances existing between the UK and Ireland.

[Captain Z]

Haven’t read the previous four threads so could someone sum up the issues in a sentence, alright nice one cheers

Brexit means nothing.

[hummingofevil]

I'm not sure why you think the passport issue doesn't have to change post Brexit. 

Consider removing the freedom of movement thingy - something very high on most Leavers' checklists - how does that mesh with no passports, no borders, no checks?  If it doesn't matter, then why have getting rid of freedom of movement as a big thing we must achieve?

As well as human traffic, there are as many issues with taxation, regulation and law for goods and services crossing that border as there are for the borders at the ports.  Again, if control and regulation of these areas matter - a reason people want out - they have to be enforced, otherwise, what is point?

Then, on the Irish border issue, you have the unimaginably huge fucking can of worms currently lidded by the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement.  You really need to read about it, read about Britain's conquest and rule of the island of Ireland and the terrible divisions and violence that has sprung directly from it, understand, to a degree at least, Britain's responsibility for it and its responsibility to do everything in its power to prevent any more bloodshed or anguish.  I simply cannot believe that any sane person could start fiddling around with this, it's beyond unacceptable IMO.

I’m just trying to pick apart the reality from the myth.

I agree entirely about your final point and to me the reason the GFA works from Nationalist point of view is that there is enough of a compromise to think you living under an Irish-endorsed system that is still technically UK.

As for passport issue I do however think it’s disingenuous for people to superimpose a non-issue onto an already delicate situation. If the islands of Great Britain and Ireland each have passport controls for external travel then I’ve not heard any great clamour from anyone to accept that that is not sufficient to allow passport-free travel between the Republic and the North.

Can this be taken advantage of in principle? Suppose. If a French person travels to Dublin on French passport then onto Holyhead without any further checks (no border in the Irish Sea) then it does seem to be outside the spirit of “controlling borders“ and in practice requires close cooperation between UK and Ireland in monitoring who is or isn’t in country and our government to have some kind of system of effective visas.

Which remember the UK has always had but never used, the promise of less red-tape and administration is nonsense and if they are going to rely on closer Irish cooperation then they might want to stop blaming the Irish for everything.

All that has to then be contextualised with fact we all KNOW there is a just-below-the-surface contempt for the Irish and the peace process that from the right, and no so right-wings of Tory party and they would love nothing more than for the pesky-Irish to be put back in their place. Empire nostalgia?  English nationalist? British superiority complex? Simple racism?

Whatever it is it’s there and at the moment people are gritting their teeth and trying to pretend otherwise. If this all goes to shit there will be plenty on both sides willing to loosen their lips once again.

[biggytitbo]

Haven’t read the previous four threads so could someone sum up the issues in a sentence, alright nice one cheers

Who needs a sentence when a picture will do: