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March 29, 2024, 01:47:21 AM

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BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH

Started by Replies From View, January 21, 2019, 10:15:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Where you at?

May's agreement
4 (4.6%)
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12 (13.8%)
General election
9 (10.3%)
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44 (50.6%)
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7 (8%)
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3 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 87

biggytitbo

Are there any stats on how ex-pats voted in the referendum? I bet most of them voted to remain and this is a contrived story.

The Spanish government - or anyway their foreign minister - said that UK emigrants will be allowed to stay in Spain even in the event of a no-deal Brexit, in 2017.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/22/uk-emigrants-spain-no-deal-brexit-eu

Disclaimer - I'm not a Brexit supporter, but if it's relevant here...

DrGreggles

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 08:47:44 AM
Are there any stats on how ex-pats voted in the referendum? I bet most of them voted to remain and this is a contrived story.

It's not contrived though, is it.
They were specifically asking Brexit voters about how it would affect them.
That's literally what the story was about.

What you're referring to is a different story which may or may not have happened.

DrGreggles

Quote from: Alternative Carpark on February 11, 2019, 08:51:15 AM
The Spanish government - or anyway their foreign minister - said that UK emigrants will be allowed to stay in Spain even in the event of a no-deal Brexit, in 2017.

Does that include those who only spend part of the year there?

biggytitbo

Quote from: DrGreggles on February 11, 2019, 08:51:37 AM
It's not contrived though, is it.
They were specifically asking Brexit voters about how it would affect them.
That's literally what the story was about.

What you're referring to is a different story which may or may not have happened.

Basic media bullshit, you edit the stupidest sounding ones into your piece to juice it up and make it look like all ex-pats are thick racists - which fits the narrative better. I doubt such a thing exists but I'd like to see some proper stats on how ex-pats actually voted, and those that voted leave why they voted.

DrGreggles

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 08:58:08 AM

Basic media bullshit mate, you edit the stupidest sounding ones into your piece to juice it up and make it look like all ex-pats are thick racists.

So those people aren't real? Or were their responses edited?

Quote from: DrGreggles on February 11, 2019, 08:52:40 AM
Does that include those who only spend part of the year there?

I don't know - it was just that I remembered the story from when it was first reported, so thought I'd mention it.

hummingofevil

I think any stats I've seen suggest the British immigrants in Spain vote was pretty much the same slim Leave margin as everyone else* which obviously means they are all Leavers who should immediately be given the hardest of Brexits and be forced to repatriate on mass as it's what they all voted for.

That how this works yeah?

*Not Scotland, NI, Gibralter, young people, London, other major cities....

biggytitbo

I found this, but just an opinion poll - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-referendum-three-quarters-of-british-expats-back-staying-in-eu-a3269901.html

QuoteBritons living in other EU countries overwhelmingly back the UK remaining in the union, according to a new survey.

It found 72 per cent of expats on the Continent eligible and planning to vote on June 23 intend to back In


Johnny Yesno

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 08, 2019, 07:04:43 AM
Believe it or not I actually feel slightly obliged to reply because if I don't some people either get personally annoyed with me or I get roundly accused of trying to 'run away'. And yes it is actually exhausting trying to keep up with at least 2 dozen other posters all replying to me and then demanding i individually reply to everyone of them - 'I see biggy still hasn't replied to my comment...he clearly has no answer', even though ive answered what they said 5 MILLION TIMES now.

This is not normal.


ToneLa

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 08:47:44 AM
Are there any stats on how ex-pats voted in the referendum? I bet most of them voted to remain and this is a contrived story.

Just reminded me a million of them couldn't even vote!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/26/european-court-rejects-british-expats-brexit-referendum-harry-shindler

Johnny Yesno


Johnny Yesno

Quote from: ToneLa on February 11, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
Just reminded me half a million of them couldn't even vote!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/26/european-court-rejects-british-expats-brexit-referendum-harry-shindler

And neither could EU citizens living in the UK, a point about the supposedly democratic vote that biggy doesn't 'feel obliged to reply to'.

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 04, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably?

Uncle TechTip

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 08:58:08 AM
Basic media bullshit, you edit the stupidest sounding ones into your piece to juice it up and make it look like all ex-pats are thick racists - which fits the narrative better. I doubt such a thing exists but I'd like to see some proper stats on how ex-pats actually voted, and those that voted leave why they voted.

Why does anyone engage with this?

Johnny Yesno


Paul Calf

Quote from: Uncle TechTip on February 11, 2019, 09:23:38 AM
Why does anyone engage with this?

Because not replyinfg to him doesn't stop him shitposting. He's the thickest-skinned, most single-minded, least self-aware poster I've ever seen anywhere.

Johnny Yesno


Endicott

Quote from: Paul Calf on February 11, 2019, 09:30:02 AM
Because not replyinfg to him doesn't stop him shitposting.

This has never been tested, Paul.

biggytitbo

Quote from: ToneLa on February 11, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
Just reminded me a million of them couldn't even vote!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/26/european-court-rejects-british-expats-brexit-referendum-harry-shindler

Hmm that references an ECJ decision?

And also:

QuoteThere is a 15-year time limit on British emigrants being able to register as overseas voters. The government has said it will support a private member's bill introduced by the Conservative MP Glyn Davies that would do away with that time restriction in future. Labour has refused to back the bill, saying it would involve too much administration.

It's almost like some people are trying to make out the 15 year time limit was some dastardly attempt to fix the referendum result or something, when it's from legislation dating back more than 30 years.  Before that expats weren't allowed to vote at all in British elections.

15 years seems like a reasonable compromise doesn't it? If you've essentially decided to permanently live in another country it seems reasonable that you shouldn't be able to continue voting in domestic elections.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Endicott on February 11, 2019, 09:37:10 AM
This has never been tested, Paul.

Look at the Holy Shit War thread. It's like Biggy Twitter.

DrGreggles

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
Hmm that references an ECJ decision?

And also:

It's almost like some people are trying to make out the 15 year time limit was some dastardly attempt to fix the referendum result or something, when it's from legislation dating back more than 30 years.  Before that expats weren't allowed to vote at all in British elections.

15 years seems like a reasonable compromise doesn't it? If you've essentially decided to permanently live in another country it seems reasonable that you shouldn't be able to continue voting in domestic elections.

So those people aren't real? Or were their responses edited?

biggytitbo

Quote from: Paul Calf on February 11, 2019, 09:30:02 AM
Because not replyinfg to him doesn't stop him shitposting. He's the thickest-skinned, most single-minded, least self-aware poster I've ever seen anywhere.

You and yesno really ought to work on your anger issues and the weird fixation you have with me. You're getting worse than Inspector Dreyfuss in the Pink Panther:


Paul Calf


Johnny Yesno

biggytitbo

Quote from: DrGreggles on February 11, 2019, 09:47:46 AM
So those people aren't real? Or were their responses edited?


Presume they're not androids but I'm sure you know how TV news works, if you film enough footage you can edit it together to tell whatever story you want.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:53:43 AM
You and yesno really ought to work on your anger issues and the weird fixation you have with me. You're getting worse than Inspector Dreyfuss in the Pink Panther:

Well, your idiocy is on a par with Clouseau's. It's a shame it's neither amusing nor endearing.

Uncle TechTip

So you'll never cite TV news as a reliable source again? And if we were to step through your post history and inevitably find something that does cite TV news as credible, you'll handwave it away or better still, ignore it completely and post another link from politico, prefaced by "this is interesting"?

DrGreggles

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:57:56 AM

Presume they're not androids but I'm sure you know how TV news works, if you film enough footage you can edit it together to tell whatever story you want.

So where the Brexit-voter said that he'd have voted Remain if he knew what he knows now, that was edited?
The part about the bloke "shooting himself in the foot" was edited?

I'd have thought that these people were just admitting they were wrong about something, but modern editing techniques mean that they didn't say that at all.
Just as well, really. We all know that all the Brexiteers knew EXACTLY what they were voting for, so this wouldn't fit that narrative.

#fakenews

ToneLa

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
Hmm that references an ECJ decision?

And also:

It's almost like some people are trying to make out the 15 year time limit was some dastardly attempt to fix the referendum result or something, when it's from legislation dating back more than 30 years.  Before that expats weren't allowed to vote at all in British elections.

15 years seems like a reasonable compromise doesn't it? If you've essentially decided to permanently live in another country it seems reasonable that you shouldn't be able to continue voting in domestic elections.

I inserted it as I believe it would prevent a full analysis on expat wishes.

As for the veracity of the rule. Discussing it is largely academic. The Conservative government saw an issue:

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05923
QuoteOn 7 October 2016 the Government published a policy statement, A democracy that works for everyone: British citizens overseas, which sets out how the 15 year rule will be removed and how all eligible British citizens who have lived in the UK will be given a lifelong right to vote in Parliamentary elections

The ECJ did not reject the case solely on the 15 year mark, but due to a timing and evidence issue :

QuoteThe European Court of Justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg ruled that the case was "inadmissible, because there are no expatriates who are personally affected [by the negotiations for the UK's withdrawal from the EU] for now".

.... "it is therefore only at the end of the Article 50 procedure that the rights of the applicants are liable to be affected".

Shot their wad innit.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
It's almost like some people are trying to make out the 15 year time limit was some dastardly attempt to fix the referendum result or something, when it's from legislation dating back more than 30 years.  Before that expats weren't allowed to vote at all in British elections.

15 years seems like a reasonable compromise doesn't it? If you've essentially decided to permanently live in another country it seems reasonable that you shouldn't be able to continue voting in domestic elections.

This is interesting:

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 04, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably? The alternative is a small minority of people who don't want to live in the UK get to force the 17.4m people who do to remain in the EU against their will which doesnt sound right.

Buelligan

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
Hmm that references an ECJ decision?

And also:

It's almost like some people are trying to make out the 15 year time limit was some dastardly attempt to fix the referendum result or something, when it's from legislation dating back more than 30 years.  Before that expats weren't allowed to vote at all in British elections.

15 years seems like a reasonable compromise doesn't it? If you've essentially decided to permanently live in another country it seems reasonable that you shouldn't be able to continue voting in domestic elections.

Interestingly, it says that our rights, the rights of people exactly like me and me, will only have been infringed once Article 50 is completed.  In other words, once 29 March 2019 passes (or whatever date 29 March is changed to, passes), the complainants may well have a case.  And I hope they take it up.

I would also argue that this is not solely a "domestic" decision as it will affect the rights and status of all British citizens in the UK AND abroad (everywhere, not just in the EU).  It's absolute natural justice, as plain as a pikestaff, that everyone affected to this degree by a decision should have a say - that is democracy.

And, if we're going to remain resolutely undemocratic about this and deny them (me) a say, on the basis of what, tax paid to a national scheme, even though, within the EU, governments have reciprocal arrangements and group funding (and, therefore tax contributions arguably flow between all the member states) .  Are we going to uphold the rights and suffrage of EU citizens living in the UK (paying tax in the UK)?  Are we going to deny votes to people not paying tax?

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 11, 2019, 09:16:20 AM
I found this, but just an opinion poll - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-referendum-three-quarters-of-british-expats-back-staying-in-eu-a3269901.html

You need to remember that an opinion poll is a sample (with all the faults that implies) and that everyone's choice in an opinion poll counts - this was a vote where many, many, expats were summarily disenfranchised (so whatever they might tell a pollster they'd vote is moot).