Poll

Where you at?

May’s agreement
4 (4.6%)
No deal
12 (13.8%)
General election
9 (10.3%)
Cancel A50
44 (50.6%)
Vandalising my cock and balls
7 (8%)
Syndicating every boat I row
1 (1.1%)
Fish heads, fish heads, eat them up:  yum.
7 (8%)
Wearing a test tube over my knob and wanking the test tube with a tea cloth
3 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 87

Author Topic: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH  (Read 49563 times)

Johnny Yesno

  • You've been exploding frogs again
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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2400 on: February 11, 2019, 11:21:30 AM »
We are wasting our time here with biggy 'Dunning-Kruger' titbo, aren't we? He will always, of course, know what a parking meters are.

NoSleep

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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2401 on: February 11, 2019, 11:24:08 AM »
Best put him on ignore and start having a conversation amongst the rest of you about Brexit instead literal pages about him. What's the point of "discussing" with somebody who just blasts the same old shit from a megaphone at you?

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2402 on: February 11, 2019, 11:24:12 AM »
Why are these on the list?

Quote
The Daily Mirror, Daily Record, FT, The Economist, Guardian, Observer, The Independent, Evening Standard, Mail on Sunday, New Statesman, The Scotsman, The Times, Sunday Mirror, The Herald

If the influence of the lies from The Sun, Express, Daily Mail and Telegraph are utterly insignificant?

ToneLa

  • I don't have to dip fishsticks in shit(literally)
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2403 on: February 11, 2019, 11:27:39 AM »
I wouldnt for a moment claim it was a perfect situation - I'd generally arguing for the more people who can take part the better. But I don't think anything actually untoward went on, no vote is every perfect.


It seems we have a common ground, though I wouldn't ascribe malice where I see gross incompetence. Perfection is not required, but mass, predictable fuck ups being avoided where possible will do!

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If we are so concerned about disenfranchisement


Are we? You weren't. I was casting doubt on a dataset I believe to be compromised. I'm not unconcerned, just not misrepresentating my motivation. So, new topic time I suppose?

Quote

Snip
Would you describe that as disenfranchisement?

I would describe disenfranchisement in a political context such as this as deprivation of an actual right.

I don't think you could describe wanting to vote to leave the EU at any time as a right, but I could be sympathetic to it as it stretches into societal and personal areas. You may feel disenfranchised, but there is no actual remit in law or parliament I know of to address that. Fortunately, our country sometimes addresses such mass feelings...

Do you agree another referendum could benefit a large swathe of the disenfranchised right now?

I wonder why we don't have more referendums, more direct representation in certain areas. Now that's a question. It can't all be the EU's fault! 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 11:46:23 AM by ToneLa »

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2404 on: February 11, 2019, 11:30:32 AM »
No you couldn’t, not a list as long as that, not even close (apologies to others for posting the whole thing but a link is too easy to ignore).  That’s 25 years of utter utter bullshit, a lot of it from headlines on the front pages of the most read papers in the UK.  That’s appalling.  Hand waving it away like you have just shows how little you actually care about democracy.

A list far far longer, our media is terrible. You could make a list longer than that just on UK foreign policy since 9/11, or indeed Jeremy Corbyn since 2015.

Funny to talk about 'caring about democracy' in the context of trying to thwart the biggest democratic vote in our history too.

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We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.

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If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'.

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"Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"

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Monetary policy is a serious issue. We should discuss this in secret, in the Eurogroup [...] I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious [...] I am for secret, dark debates.

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There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties, one cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU.

The honest, democracy loving guy in charge of the EU there - https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker

Paul Calf

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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2405 on: February 11, 2019, 12:18:53 PM »
A load of shit that you've misunderstood. Tell me, Staunch Brother Titbo, did you you get all those quotes from John Redwood's blog?

katzenjammer

  • Now we know...

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2407 on: February 11, 2019, 12:25:43 PM »
I linked where I got the quotes from. Are you saying they're not true?

Paul Calf

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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2408 on: February 11, 2019, 12:39:54 PM »
I'm saying that you have, in many cases, misunderstood them.

Replies From View

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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2409 on: February 11, 2019, 12:40:37 PM »
This is interesting:

People living in the UK are entitled to vote on fundamental issues about how their country is run without being guilt tripped by people who don't even live here though presumably? The alternative is a small minority of people who don't want to live in the UK get to force the 17.4m people who do to remain in the EU against their will which doesnt sound right.

I can’t quite comprehend what he’s saying there.  He seems to be claiming that Remain would still be a minority of voters even if they’d had more votes and won?  In which case it would be the most obstinate and obtuse insistence on Leave having the “right” to win this referendum that I have ever heard (and I have heard plenty).

Can somebody smarter than me please do a titbo translation?

Mr_Simnock

  • BREXIT? what brexit
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2410 on: February 11, 2019, 12:51:22 PM »
He is basically saying expats who dont want to return to the UK shouldn't have a chance to vote on if the UK leaves the EU, bit of a harsh view I think.

Replies From View

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Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2411 on: February 11, 2019, 12:54:34 PM »
He frequently tries to drag loyalty to Corbyn or Labour into this and conflate the issues - I've mentioned it before.  I have to admit, find it really offensive.

Don’t forget that for titbo the only concern is always simply “does siding with this particular argument allow me to be against the grain of most other people?”

That’s it.  That is the depth of titbo’s interest in this and everything.  Don’t fool yourself that he has any concern for these issues beyond being a contrarian.  “Does taking this stance allow me to be an outsider?  If yes then goto 20.”

On this level, then yes, Brexit and Corbyn are roughly the same.

ToneLa

  • I don't have to dip fishsticks in shit(literally)
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2412 on: February 11, 2019, 12:56:27 PM »
Don’t forget that for titbo the only concern is “does siding with this particular argument allow me to be against the grain of most other people?”

Don’t fool yourself that he has any concern for these issues beyond being a contrarian.  “Does taking this stance allow me to be an outsider?  If yes then goto 20.”

One wonders if the alleged multitude of lurking Leavers weren't talked out of contributing by Biggy himself in the messages they exchanged (source: Mr. Titbo). It would serve him more than us for them to not ever appear and even things out.

Taking it they exist!

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2413 on: February 11, 2019, 01:07:00 PM »
One wonders if the alleged multitude of lurking Leavers weren't talked out of contributing by Biggy himself in the messages they exchanged (source: Mr. Titbo). It would serve him more than us for them to not ever appear and even things out.

Taking it they exist!

Well If I'm making it up (I'm not) it's a sad indictment of the forum if there only me and about 2 others out of hundreds who want to leave the EU. That would make it less representative than the most hardcore remain areas in the country and every political party bar UKIP. I bet there were more leavers on the people's vote march, even if they turned up by accident thinking it was a Nazi rally.

ToneLa

  • I don't have to dip fishsticks in shit(literally)
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2414 on: February 11, 2019, 01:09:15 PM »

Well If I'm making it up (I'm not) it's a sad indictment of the forum if there only me and about 2 others out of hundreds who want to leave the EU. That would make it less representative and the most hardcore remain areas in the country and every political party bar UKIP. I bet there were more leavers on the people's vote march, even if they turned up by accident thinking it was a Nazi rally.

Think it would be fairer if you addressed the folk who replied before me since you seem to be attracting replies aplenty today

Dunno if you are making it up, just a wee joke on my part as you do seem to like the attention. Don't care much really, you can only talk to who's there to talk with; I don't think you can shout at a forum you join by choice for its membership. "Be more diverse!", you scream, at a collective of individuals!

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2415 on: February 11, 2019, 01:11:23 PM »
Are there rules governing how membership of any forum must reflect 52/48 leave/remain?

I wonder if there are any forums that are mainly frequented by leave voters?

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2416 on: February 11, 2019, 01:12:00 PM »
Imagine if people who were brought together by a forum around a common interest might hold similar views!  Next you'll be telling me that 90% of Mumsnet are female.

I have very few British friends or acquaintances who wish to leave the EU. I don't really think it's that unusual that people with similar mentalities come together. It may not be really healthy, but it's hardly unexpected.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2417 on: February 11, 2019, 01:21:55 PM »
This isn't a remaining in the EU forum though is it? As I said, every cohort you can think of has at the least a significant minority of leavers - 35% labour voters, 32% Lib Dem, 20% greens, 32% with degrees, 29% under 25, etc. This forum is basically Gibraltar (95%-5% remain).

ToneLa

  • I don't have to dip fishsticks in shit(literally)
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2418 on: February 11, 2019, 01:27:55 PM »
This isn't a remaining in the EU forum though is it? As I said, every cohort you can think of has at the least a significant minority of leavers - 35% labour voters, 32% Lib Dem, 20% greens, 32% with degrees, 29% under 25, etc. This forum is basically Gibraltar (95%-5% remain).

What makes you different from the silent Leave voters? Why is it only you representing what apparently more than you believe in?

Captain Z

  • Oh yeah my cholesterol's going down
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2419 on: February 11, 2019, 01:30:49 PM »
This forum is basically Gibraltar (95%-5% remain).

We really should move some people around until the will of Gibraltar is in line with the rest of the UK, otherwise how can we take them seriously. They should join the EU if they love it so much.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2420 on: February 11, 2019, 02:06:17 PM »
We stole Gibraltar from the Spanish anway and should give it back.

A thought provoking article on the cognitive dissonance of 'free movement' - https://www.thefullbrexit.com/anti-racism

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For example, many left-wing people feel passionately that we should fight the marketisation of the National Health Service. However, they blithely accept the free market to import doctors and nurses from other countries. They see the welcoming of these “foreigners” solely as a sign of openness and internationalism, yet in reality it is fundamentally an exploitative relationship with other countries. Some of the world’s poorest nations have essentially transferred billions of pounds to the UK in the form of medical staff trained at their expense.

Likewise, people who vigorously oppose the marketisation of our public services, through privatisation or academisation, apparently find the marketisation of Europe to be wholly unproblematic, perceiving the Single Market as an entirely benign instrument.

It is vital that we distinguish between what we believe is good for people and what people are good for. Chris Bickerton and Richard Tuck, in their pamphlet A Brexit Proposal, offer us an idea of how these neo-colonial attitudes might have surreptitiously entered in to the liberal collective unconscious:

When they hear critics of the EU on the Right say that it is becoming a super-state, their (the Left’s) response is often, So what? What was so good about the British state, and why should it not be superseded by a European one, with all its appealing trappings of (potentially) global power? People whose liberal great-grandfathers would have enthusiastically managed the British Empire are now keen to manage the European one.[1]

Capital constantly appropriates and commodifies all positions and ideas, even anti-racism. So we have arrived at a point where many people who identify as left-wing have wedded their anti-racist credentials to the primacy of the free market, exemplified by a deregulated movement of labour, rather than to the lived experiences of the workers themselves.





Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2421 on: February 11, 2019, 02:06:53 PM »
The expats voting for Brexit is just another example of people not understanding the implications of voting leave and being misled by leave campaigners' lies that there would be no negative consequences for them.  The penny is now dropping.

I don’t actually agree with this. I would argue that there was a more fundamental mindset which was we will vote for this idea despite there being some negative consequences but because we are better than everyone else they will come begging to give us back all the stuff we actually want and lose all the other stuff.

It’s exactky the sane mind set at ”easiest deal in history”. It’s that ”they need us more than we need them” arrogance that ran through the campaign from top to bottom.

This is why it’s been so easy to convince people that when negative things happen it is ”what they voted for” as technically they think they did as that was the bit that was stripping everything away. Where one apportions blame for a lack of progress moving forward is open to interpretation. It’s quite clever in its own awful way.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2422 on: February 11, 2019, 02:07:02 PM »
This isn't a remaining in the EU forum though is it? As I said, every cohort you can think of has at the least a significant minority of leavers - 35% labour voters, 32% Lib Dem, 20% greens, 32% with degrees, 29% under 25, etc. This forum is basically Gibraltar (95%-5% remain).

So what?  Is this the most pressing question we can think of?  Why not address some of the many issues and questions already asked or just stop talking for a bit, stop burying everything worth consideration in reams of piffle until there is something less navel-gazing and trivial to remark upon?

ToneLa

  • I don't have to dip fishsticks in shit(literally)
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2423 on: February 11, 2019, 02:12:51 PM »
Conspicuous of you to mention this when I mention, say, a short term blog not being a necessarily trustworthy source.

'I'll get Cluefarter to look into it' means nothing to me. Should it? I mean, you acknowledged thefullbrexit needs considered, if that's a serious comment that went over my head, but you also continue to cite from it.

I don't think you are an authority on how to spot bias if such reasoning of how you find and trust such sources is absent... 

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2424 on: February 11, 2019, 02:21:18 PM »
We stole Gibraltar from the Spanish anway and should give it back.

A thought provoking article on the cognitive dissonance of 'free movement' - https://www.thefullbrexit.com/anti-racism

It's not thought provoking, and I'm pretty sure you've postyed it beofre. Any comment on who thefullbrexit are?

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2425 on: February 11, 2019, 02:29:10 PM »
I don’t actually agree with this. I would argue that there was a more fundamental mindset which was we will vote for this idea despite there being some negative consequences but because we are better than everyone else they will come begging to give us back all the stuff we actually want and lose all the other stuff.

It’s exactky the sane mind set at ”easiest deal in history”. It’s that ”they need us more than we need them” arrogance that ran through the campaign from top to bottom.

This is why it’s been so easy to convince people that when negative things happen it is ”what they voted for” as technically they think they did as that was the bit that was stripping everything away. Where one apportions blame for a lack of progress moving forward is open to interpretation. It’s quite clever in its own awful way.


We don't know how expats voted or why the ones who voted to leave voted that way though do we, beyond some short clips on channel 4 news.

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2426 on: February 11, 2019, 02:38:13 PM »
It's not thought provoking, and I'm pretty sure you've postyed it beofre. Any comment on who thefullbrexit are?

It’s also complete nonsense.

People are not ”stolen from poorer countries”. They are individuals who chose to move for their own personal motivations and reasons. Slaves were stolen.

The reasons people move are both attractive and repulsive and nothing we know of this government a it’s policies will make the lives of poorer people in the world less shit. The only tactic post-Brexit is ”don’t come to the UK anymore  because it’s shitter now because we don’t like you very much”)

Finally, that last point is irrelevant anyway as UK gov has done very little in its power to control immigration with the powers it has anyway. Under the new ”taking back control of our borders” immigration policy that prevents doctors from Poland ”jumping the queue” to apply for one of the 100,000 unfilled positions in the NHS where do we think these people are going to come from?

Ill give you one guess and it won’t involve investing billions in free higher education for hundreds of thousands of talented working class kids already in UK. Tories.

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2427 on: February 11, 2019, 02:44:08 PM »
Well If I'm making it up (I'm not)

Narrator: He was.

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2428 on: February 11, 2019, 02:44:42 PM »

We don't know how expats voted or why the ones who voted to leave voted that way though do we, beyond some short clips on channel 4 news.

No deal. Everyone who voted to Leave voted for no deal and we should just get on with it because they need us more than we need them and we survived the war apart from my 3 brothers who didn’t because they got killed and I wasn’t born then anyway and why are they still here...

Re: BREXIT GOES BACK AND FIFTH
« Reply #2429 on: February 11, 2019, 02:44:44 PM »
You're quite right. I'm pretty sure all that was pointed out last time he posted it though, and it was ignored.

And yes, slaves were stolen. Just as empires didn't consist of countries that voluntarily signed up to become part of them.