US coup in Venezuela

[biggytitbo]

How long before we learn the Venezuelans have hacked American democracy, with the help of Putin?

[biggytitbo]

Venezuelans FURIOUS with Jeremy Corbyn's 'DISGRACEFUL' response to country's crisis

I love the idea Venezuelans even know who Jeremy Corbyn is, let alone give a fuck what he thinks.

Of course all Venezuelans quoted in Western media are special ones selected by the CIA from the most anti Maduro zealots they could find, dressed up as ordinary folk. It's very much like if every single news outlet in the US covering Jeremy Corbyn got all their quotes and interviews from tory party members, but made out they were just ordinary members of the public.

[biggytitbo]

Another glorious headline -

Nicolas Maduro Threatens to Kill U.S. Troops if They Invade Venezuela

[bgmnts]

From this?

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/12/18/nicolas-maduro-threatens-kill-u-s-troops-invade-venezuela/

[Paul Calf]

It's amazing what a bit of context can do isn't it?

[kngen]

Anyway, look at this bastion of democracy that's involved.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/26/elliott-abrams-venezuela-us-special-envoy

A wee primer, if people can stomach it.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I'd be delighted if he snuffed out America's murderous plans here like he did in Syria.

[Hundhoon]

A wee primer, if people can stomach it.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I'd be delighted if he snuffed out America's murderous plans here like he did in Syria.

Putin is just as imperialistic as America, the only reason he has not invaded his neighbours (most of them)and restored the Russian Empire  is because America wont let him. much much weaker than America.

[biggytitbo]

Citation please.

[greenman]

You've got to love the start of that BBC interview with Manduro making the point of the "luxury of the Presidential Palace" relative to the poverty of some in the country, ".....Mrs's May said from the giant Victorian edifice which is planned for a £3.5 billion renovation in the midst of rising homelessness".

[Urinal Cake]

Putin's main concerns seem to about Russian citizens/emigrates (such as Chechnya and Ukraine),  gas and oil pipelines and NATO. I don't see how he's trying to create a new Soviet Union.
Putin isn't like Xi Jinping who is reclaiming Taiwan/Taiwan and extending it's borders artificially.

[Paul Calf]

Citation please.

Putin's a very senior figure in the shadow state, the unaccountable security services, operating in the background to subvert holy democracy. I thought people like that were automatically under suspicion?

[biggytitbo]

There's zero reason to think Putin is an expansionist, his concerns are entirely about protecting Russia from the onhoing encroachment of NATO, which in time worn NATO fashion they invert into 'Russian aggression.

[Hundhoon]

There's zero reason to think Putin is an expansionist, his concerns are entirely about protecting Russia from the onhoing encroachment of NATO, which in time worn NATO fashion they invert into 'Russian aggression.

Ukraine is an independent country like Venezuela. is it not?

[greenman]

I'd guess Putin's main intension is retaining his own popularity which I think you could argue has always been as the "strong man Russia needs to withstand western aggression", I'd say that includes some potential expansionism into areas like eastern Ukraine, Georgia, etc were Russian populations are viewed as under threat or very direct Russian military/economic interests are at stake like Crimrea, don't think he has much intension of any kind of direct invasion where large scale fighting would be involved though.

I would guess that the biggest difference is actually the position of the wealthy elite, in Russia most of the oligarchs I'd imagine care most about open markets to Russian resources plus eyes and hands kept off of their ill gotten gains both at home and in the west. In the US you have much more interest in interventionism from these kinds of people seeking out foreign resouces and potential takers of high interest loans and I think a political/media establishment that's 95% well on board with those interests.

[Crisps?]

If Venezuela is the USA's neighbour, the UK - never mind Ukraine - is Russia's.

Putin isn't like Xi Jinping who is reclaiming Taiwan/Taiwan

Fairly sure there was something in the news about Crimea a while back.

and extending it's borders artificially.

Yes, in what is it called again, the South USA Sea, no, South UK Sea. Something like that. Jolly nice of us to solve Asia for the Asians yet again.

[biggytitbo]

Ukraine is an independent country like Venezuela. is it not?

At least two things make it very different to Venezuela and that are the US/EU sponsored coup in 2014 and Crimea. No Western country would hesitate for a second to do what Russia did in a similar situation that involved them.

[Pdine]

Would you be supportive if they did, though?

[Urinal Cake]

If Venezuela is the USA's neighbour, the UK - never mind Ukraine - is Russia's.

Fairly sure there was something in the news about Crimea a while back.

Yes, in what is it called again, the South USA Sea, no, South UK Sea. Something like that. Jolly nice of us to solve Asia for the Asians yet again.

Putin, like I said before, main interest was ensuring that it's oil/gas and Russians were safe. He hasn't expanded further into Ukraine.

China can't have it both ways. Arguing that they already own the South China Sea but also artificially building islands that serve no purpose but to extend water boundaries under international law.

[pcsjwgm]

An example of why the centre and right wing have united to destroy Ilhan Omar and remove her from the House Foreign Affairs Committee:

Yes or no, would you support an armed faction within Venezuela that engages in war crimes, crimes against humanity, or genocide, if you believed they were serving U.S. interests, as you did in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua?

https://twitter.com/People4Bernie/status/1095762806824001536

Unfortunately, she didn't push back when Elliott Abrams said that the thrust of US policy is to support democracy in Venezuela (and I don't doubt she disputes this blatantly false notion), but perhaps she was running out of time.

[pcsjwgm]

Didn't think that someone would be desperate enough to portray Omar's questioning of Abrams's role in US foreign policy in Latin America as anti-semitic.
https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1095863665818025984
https://twitter.com/michaeljknowles/status/1095784113456345089

Noah Pollak, by the way, once complained that the UK "basically let half of fucking Pakistan move in."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWd3Rh5Ysww&feature=youtu.be&t=15

And "this woman is a bigot" better describes Elliott Abrams's late wife Rachel (also a board member of the Emergency Committee for Israel), who said this about Palestinians:

https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1095783091988246528

[rjd2]

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1095845570365870080

Not bad.Kristol was speculating about regime change in China not to long ago.

[Flouncer]

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1095845570365870080

Not bad.Kristol was speculating about regime change in China not to long ago.

What the fuck is this all about?



I'm assuming the logic here is, "Some of them are Jewish, therefore it's anti-semitic to call them what they are."

[NoSleep]

It just means they are getting more ridiculous in their hysteria by the day. That will prove a positive for us ultimately.

[Twed]

I'm assuming the logic here is, "Some of them are Jewish, therefore it's anti-semitic to call them what they are."

It amazes me that their antisemitism fighting consists almost entirely of saying "that's hurtful to Jewish people" when somebody identifies something negative.

[KennyMonster]

Hi

Bumping this thread to ask if anyone else here is interested in attending this?

https://www.facebook.com/events/2054524831514889/?ti=as

[biggytitbo]

Very sad to see AOC and Bernie Sanders playing along with the regime change propaganda. They're all over trump every time he tweets something stupid but here he is nakedly engineering regime change, alongside right wing maniacs Bolton and Elliot Abrams, in a socialist country and the so called progressive wing of American politics is blaming Venezuela.


Yet against shows when it comes to the American empire there really is only one party.

[a peepee tipi]

Sanders said he doesn't support military intervention in Venezuela and refuses to call Maduro a dictator. Compared to fucking everyone else, that's pretty solid.

[Twed]

Very sad to see AOC and Bernie Sanders playing along with the regime change propaganda. They're all over trump every time he tweets something stupid but here he is nakedly engineering regime change, alongside right wing maniacs Bolton and Elliot Abrams, in a socialist country and the so called progressive wing of American politics is blaming Venezuela.


Yet against shows when it comes to the American empire there really is only one party.

That's a pithy quote that applies quite well to mainstream Democrats and Republicans, but let's not pretend that Sanders is about as even his primary opponents. He is the compromise, and right now we'll be lucky if we get that. So I know what I'm fighting for.

[Urinal Cake]

The view that the USA should stay out of foreign affairs is a minority view. The view that the US is aggravating the situation in Venezuela to the detriment of the US and Venezuela is fucking rare.   

[biggytitbo]

Sanders said he doesn't support military intervention in Venezuela and refuses to call Maduro a dictator. Compared to fucking everyone else, that's pretty solid.

Of course Sanders is better, not that that would be hard, but unfortunately he's playing the Guardians game of endorsing the regime change propaganda then saying 'ahh but I don't support intervention', which is the same as pouring petrol on the house and then saying you don't support arson. I do quite understand that he would be destroyed if he really told the truth though, so it doesnt leave him much option.