Author Topic: US coup in Venezuela  (Read 7728 times)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2019, 01:09:17 PM »
Venezuela is a particular area of interest for me after viewing the incendiary documentary The Revolution Will Not Be Televised which drew back the curtain on the continued attempts by the United States to undermine democracy in South America and secure resources, to the extent of backing fascists. In this film Hugo Chavez is kidnapped and overthrown while the US hurriedly tries to usher in an "interim", ie. unelected President of its choosing. Sound familiar?

You won't hear this at the moment in the Western media because Maduro yep, is a crap president who has made mistakes (albeit under severe pressure and economic warfare), but most crucially of all, is a socialist, and therefore stands against every fascist and every neoliberal agenda going.

Despite what you read about Venezuela the government is begrudgingly supported by the majority in Venezuela because they know it is the last line of defense against fascists and US control of their sovereign nation and because the very poor black population, the majority, saw their way of life and standard of living transformed under Chavez - himself no saint but no saint was on offer, nor is one now. Only resistance against consigning an improverished majority to destitution and a two-tier society where white fascists control the media and business interests for a few in gated communities.

Hopefully the nation will resist this latest attempt to install a US backed stooge in contravention of the constitution.

This is a superb read by a credible author:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/the-coup-in-venezuela-must-be-resisted/

And here is the whole ugly, astounding, electric documentary:
https://youtu.be/Id--ZFtjR5c


But we could always go back to brown Venezuelan people having to eat dog food like the turn of the 90s I guess.


Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2019, 01:17:58 PM »
The US has chosen to ignore the expulsions of their diplomats as they no longer respect Maduro’s authority.

How strong is the support of either faction?

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2019, 01:31:07 PM »
Whenever we talk about another US regime change it must never be allowed to become a qualitative debate about the country in question, how nice its leader is, how big the crowds of protesters are, or any other caveats the slightly less hawkish warmongers use. That's all irrelevant, a part of their war that's aimed at us. This always begins with information warfare where they try to get us to buy into their fake narratives, before it then becomes a real war or sponsored overthrow against the country in question. US imperialism must be resisted at all costs, there are no caveats.

Alberon

  • His heart is an empty fridge
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2019, 01:45:09 PM »
The US has chosen to ignore the expulsions of their diplomats as they no longer respect Maduro’s authority.

How strong is the support of either faction?

But is one faction stronger than the other? Are we looking at one faction steamrolling the other or is a potracted civil war likely?

ZoyzaSorris

  • if you can smell me it's too late
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2019, 02:00:35 PM »
The US has chosen to ignore the expulsions of their diplomats as they no longer respect Maduro’s authority.

How strong is the support of either faction?

Basically same as it always has been, the poor majority support the PSUV, the rich and middle classes support the right wing. Luckily the PSUV had the sense to ensure the military were actually an independent nationalist force rather than US proxies, so they are on the side of the elected government for now. Unless the US actually intervenes militarily the coup supporters have no actual de facto power on the ground. The support of Russia and China will prove critical.

Of course, back in the day, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Ecuador would have all had Venezuela's back (Its just Uruguay and Bolivia on the side of the good guys these days), but Ecuador's president was elected on a left-wing platform then turned traitor, Brazil and Paraguay's left wing leaders were removed and barred from re-election via dubious 'soft' coups, and Argentina fell narrowly to the right under an unprecedented media assault. Hopefully Argentina will fall back into the left camp in the general election later this year, as Macri is very unpopular. If Venezuela can hang on with Russia and CHina's help, then the pink tide will gradually return.     

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2019, 02:15:46 PM »
Jimmy Wales and Philip Cross are as always, loyal to the Empire in their campaign to rewrite reality itself -


Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2019, 02:30:58 PM »
I'm going to email this Trump fella to ask if He'll recognise me as the Pres of Scotland, or the UK, or Europe or summat. I'll have this shit sorted double quick. Big plate of powdered mash to celebrate.

Shhhh, none of you fucking grasses tell him that I'm a lefty remainer

KennyMonster

  • Dance like The Goverment is watching.
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2019, 02:33:53 PM »
Jimmy Wales and Philip Cross are as always, loyal to the Empire in their campaign to rewrite reality itself -



Do we know who edited that?

Paul Calf

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Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2019, 02:47:19 PM »
This is the edit that changed it from Interim to "Official":

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Juan_Guaid%C3%B3&diff=879856520&oldid=879856443

Quote
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Not much to go on there.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2019, 02:57:38 PM »
The last edit was a 'veteran' wikipedia editor, who edits such topics as:

Quote
2013–2018 Nicaraguan protests
2015–16 protests in Brazil
2017 Venezuelan protests
Antisemitism in Venezuela
Bolivarian diaspora
Carmen Meléndez
Cartel of the Suns
Chávez eyes
Colectivo (Venezuela)
CONIDA
Dakazo
Delcy Rodríguez
DINI
El Junquito raid
Femicides in Peru
Ghazi Nasr Al-Din
Henry Ramos Allup
Jesus piece (jewelry)
Juan Requesens
La Patilla
Lilian Tintori
Lima Group
Livia Acosta Noguera
Luisa Ortega Díaz
Marvinia Jiménez
Narcosobrinos affair
Néstor Reverol
Nicolás Maduro Guerra
Piracy off the coast of Venezuela
Shortages in Venezuela
UAV FAP
Venezuelan Constituent Assembly election, 2017

Probably a Langley sock puppet.

NoSleep

  • feat. Keith Jarrett and his singing parrot
    • Space Is The Place
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2019, 03:34:37 PM »
Has there ever been an coup in modern history where the new leader is formally recognised before the old leader is officially ousted? This seems quite extraordinary that the US government (and by extension, Canada, the EU, etc) is already declaring Juan Guaido as the president of Venezuela with barely any pretense for his legitimacy.

I don't see where this is a coup as yet. Just various interests "recognising" a nobody in the face of reality.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2019, 04:00:54 PM »
The NATO international community saying he's president, coupled with the vicious economic warfare and all manner of CIA sponsored domestic agitation in the country - it's a proto-coup at the least, if not an actual one done on the cheap.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2019, 04:09:06 PM »
Indeed:



How do we feel about people who backed Trump now acting outraged, biggy?

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2019, 04:49:42 PM »
Well I'm not eligible to vote in the US elections even though it affects me, which sucks. But yeah, Trump maintaining exact policy continuity with all other recent presidents is shit, he's all withdraw from Syria - booo, but then let's interfere more in Iran or Venezuela - cheer. Hard to know what to think when virtually  everyone in American politics is such a lying, shameless warmongering hypocrite though isn't it. Trump is a fairground mirror reflecting the grotesquery of all those around him for all to see.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2019, 04:51:25 PM »
Well I'm not eligible to vote in the US elections even though it affects me, which sucks. But yeah, Trump maintaining exact policy continuity with all other recent presidents is shit, he's all withdraw from Syria - booo, but then let's interfere more in Iran or Venezuela - cheer. Hard to know what to think when virtually  everyone in politics is such a lying, shameless warmongering hypocrite though isn't it. Trump is a fairground mirror reflecting the grotesquery of all those around him for all to see.

Fixed.

Twed

  • Take a Key for Coming in!
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2019, 05:01:41 PM »
Whoa, thanks for the spot the difference puzzle there buddy.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2019, 10:23:06 PM »
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-venezuela-politics-military/caracas-spring-not-so-fast-venezuelas-armed-forces-say-idUKKCN1PH1CB?fbclid=IwAR3OdsW0u4w5QfkmD1KgDaBFPbN4kAX0wdA4EcVLO5uxtjLnin2IWgM9LY4

Quote
The excitement has spread from the streets of Caracas to the trading rooms of Wall Street, where investors have driven up the prices of the country’s defaulted bonds on hopes for a new government that will be more likely to resume debt payments.


Paul Calf

  • She's mildly cretinous.
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Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2019, 10:27:32 PM »
Well I'm not eligible to vote in the US elections even though it affects me, which sucks.

Wow.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2019, 10:44:03 PM »
I wonder how much he'd think it sucked if the US electorate decided he should be deported to Venezuela or somewhere else he has no connection with or wish to live in (and weren't even considering offering compensation).

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Mountain mate
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2019, 11:23:27 PM »
So I assume the US and their fascist friends in S. America will try and get to the Venezuelan military...via a general who can be paid to turncoat on Maduro and ensure he can be whisked off while this time they manage the fallout properly to ensure unlike last time the public don't stage a mass uprising.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2019, 12:01:00 AM »
Well I'm not eligible to vote in the US elections even though it affects me, which sucks. But yeah, Trump maintaining exact policy continuity with all other recent presidents is shit, he's all withdraw from Syria - booo, but then let's interfere more in Iran or Venezuela - cheer. Hard to know what to think when virtually  everyone in American politics is such a lying, shameless warmongering hypocrite though isn't it. Trump is a fairground mirror reflecting the grotesquery of all those around him for all to see.

But by the same logic that you used to attack the EU, supporting the status quo after his pre-election claims of being isolationist makes Trump a hypocrite which is the worst of all crimes. The argument of X is cunt because they are as bad as Y and Y is a cunt works all ways.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2019, 12:26:23 AM »
Just looking and AOC and the New Democratic Left or whatever they will end up being known as are criticising Trump on this.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2019, 12:41:19 AM »
Maybe this is due to reflexive anti-Trumpism, but this is surprisingly good from CNN's Chris Cuomo:
https://twitter.com/alsoconnor/status/1088307665564889088

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2019, 04:07:38 AM »
https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1088531713649713153
Credit to Tulsi for calling this out bullshit out. Looking at the other twitter feeds of those running, Harris and Warren very quiet.

Unimpressed with the tweets from Bernie also.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2019, 06:59:23 AM »
Corbyn a chosen to sit it out it seems, despite been quite involved with South America solidarity.


Bernie going for the it's bad but...approach, which isn't good enough. No caveats.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2019, 07:59:35 AM »
Its a fascinating example of how a well intentioned project becomes more authoritarian in order to survive.
Murduro has turned though  he has become more authoritarian, the last election was a complete sham, the opposition have been removed.

Given the circumstances the rate of inflation I highly doubt Maduro would have won. It's all really sad.

Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2019, 08:35:42 AM »
Well when you ask your voters to abstain what do you expect?

The sanctions have been crippling. Maduro has tried all manner of ways to get around them including cryptocurrency.

If it was as Maduro vacating the Presidency, sanctions being lifted and aid given and new free elections being called then you could say, 'Okay it's fucked up but it's for the best.'

But we've seen this story. The useful idiot Guadido is going is going to on his arse, a right-wing president installed and the country sold to foreign interests with the poor at best a bit better off and the rich and middle class a lot better off.

Angrew Lloyg Wegger

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Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2019, 08:54:14 AM »
Whay aye it's absolutely Caracas, like!

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Mountain mate
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2019, 08:54:29 AM »
Its a fascinating example of how a well intentioned project becomes more authoritarian in order to survive.
Murduro has turned though  he has become more authoritarian, the last election was a complete sham, the opposition have been removed.

Given the circumstances the rate of inflation I highly doubt Maduro would have won. It's all really sad.

Economic warfare has been waged on Venezuela. Unfortunately this is the unspoken tale of every country that tries to exist outside the capitalist system or outside the control of superpowers. They simply aren't allowed to survive, and when they fail capitalists then hail "look, socialism doesn't work!!" as though it ever had a fair run. And if Venezuela can't do it with its oil wealth, you wonder just how well the UK will cope, when the financial sector have no interest in entertaining the idea of Corbyn. Corbyn will be limited to moderate social democracy and still be called a communist and still face economic blackmail to remind everyone who is really in charge.

I bet you Maduro could win if all sides participated. Remember that due to the electoral process Presidential runoffs often come down to least worst. I have no hesitation in saying this US stooge would have his arse handed to him if he was brave enough to actually stand an election because Venezuelans despise America.

do better than Macron would.

KennyMonster

  • Dance like The Goverment is watching.
Re: US coup in Venezuela
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2019, 10:14:06 AM »
Its a fascinating example of how a well intentioned project becomes more authoritarian in order to survive.
Murduro has turned though  he has become more authoritarian, the last election was a complete sham, the opposition have been removed.

Given the circumstances the rate of inflation I highly doubt Maduro would have won. It's all really sad.

Fuck this.

No mention of the aggressive nature of the economic sanctions imposed by the US because Chavez and Maduro won't give up the countries oil reserves.

Fuck this blinkered view that it's Maduro's failed experiment. Your omissions are effectively lies.