US Elections 2020 thread

[Twed]

No.

Leagues above the likes of Biden and Harris, but:

"Access" to healthcare
"I'm a capitalist to my bones."
Won't ban fracking
STANDS UP TO APPLAUD TRUMP WHEN HE SAYS "AMERICA WILL NEVER BE A SOCIALIST COUNTRY"
Extremely vote-happy for increased military spending

[Peter St. John]

Hmm.

1. Co-sponsor of Medicare For All
2. I'm not sure Sanders is going to overthrow the capitalist system when he's afraid of even abolishing the filibuster (unlike Warren)
3. Fair point, but see 2. as for why Sanders won't either
4. OH NOES!
5. Surely taking her out of the Senate is even better then? One fewer vote!

In general, they both seem well up for massive regulation of the markets, expansion of the welfare state, and all that good stuff. I think we could be happy with either, really...

[Twed]

1. Co-sponsor of Medicare For All

As an example of how transparent your motivation is, let's look at what you have said about another co-sponsor of the bill:

Harris continues to make a hash of her Medicaid for All support

Doesn't really stand up as an argument, does it? Absolutely shatters when you apply a small child's understanding of how politics works.

Everything you say is promotion and spin.

[Peter St. John]

Did Warren put her hand up when asked whether she'd abolish private insurance to set up her idea of Medicare For All? I think she did.

Does Sanders support the abolition of the filibuster? No, he doesn't.

[Twed]

You're just taking a huge, nuanced issue and reducing it into an invalid bite-sized attack to favour the candidate you are promoting.

Good job on Warren and that hand-raising though, that's my mind changed.

[Twed]

Elizabeth Warren gives a non-committal "uh huh sure" when asked if people shouldn't choose between death and poverty? Brilliant, I'm With Her, it's time, it's time, it's time for a woman in the White House!

[Twed]

"When we talk about Medicare for All, there are a lot of different pathways," she said, before listing a slew of incremental proposals without explicitly endorsing any of them, from lowering the age for Medicare eligibility to allowing employers to buy in to Medicare. "For me, what's key is we get everyone to the table on this."

Not exactly what Bernie is campaigning for, and a prime example of why "she sponsored the bill" is so meaningless. Sometimes bills are sponsored to erode and dampen their impact. Look at Kamala's "sure i'll do it, but I'll time it so that it will take exactly slightly longer than two presidency terms when it's done a Republican will be in charge to undo it all. Whoopsie! ;-) ;-)"

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/06/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all-health-care-policy

[Peter St. John]

You're just taking a huge, nuanced issue and reducing it into an invalid bite-sized attack to favour the candidate you are promoting.

Does Sanders support removing the filibuster? All indications are that he doesn't and instead  favours a sleight-of-hand approach to get Medicare For All passed through the reconciliation process, which is perhaps fine for M4A, but as you can only use it once per year, it's going to somewhat stymie all his other legislative plans when there's no way the Democrats are going to have a 60-seat showing in the Senate any time soon. I think it's an important question that most of the Democratic candidates have been failing on (with the exception of Warren and Inslee), that's all.

[Urinal Cake]

The problem isn't with Warren it's with her support. She's still the second choice candidate which makes he better than most. If she isn't in the final two or three, I'm pretty sure she'll endorse Sanders but her support particularly within the media is going to Buttegieg, Harris or whomever. That's the problem.

[Twed]

Does Sanders support removing the filibuster? All indications are that he doesn't and instead  favours a sleight-of-hand approach to get Medicare For All passed through the reconciliation process, which is perhaps fine for M4A, but as you can only use it once per year, it's going to somewhat stymie all his other legislative plans when there's no way the Democrats are going to have a 60-seat showing in the Senate any time soon. I think it's an important question that most of the Democratic candidates have been failing on (with the exception of Warren and Inslee), that's all.

https://twitter.com/sunrisemvmt/status/1170039622266695690

"Oh no you can only reform the fabric of American society once per year, let's support the 'incremental access to allowed to be able to imagine a picture of somebody receiving healthcare'" candidate instead.

[Peter St. John]

Eh. That's exactly the sort of waffle you criticise the other candidates for. The filibuster needs to be eliminated, not returned to some sort of 'talking filibuster' that the GOP will game in approximately 5 seconds.

[Twed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oAurwzy06M

You can't just disregard nuance by blanket-labeling it as "waffle". Entire movements have its existence to thank, and I think we can afford to reform that so it works like it was designed to instead of compromising on healthcare.

Also let's just please take a moment to picture a Warren versus Trump match-up. Yeah...

[Peter St. John]

You're misunderstanding me. I want the filibuster eliminated so progressive legislation like M4A is easier to pass, not to compromise. The filibuster in the way that Sanders wants to return it to, was, for example, instrumental in detailing Civil Rights legislation and other progressive aims. It has no place in a world where already Senatorial power is slanted against the majority.

[Mr_Simnock]

so is 'peter st jon' an american equivalent of TFM? seems to be so in my eyes.

[Peter St. John]

I voted for Corbyn, which at least puts me one above, I hope?

[Mr_Simnock]

no it doesn't

[backdrifter]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1170070887887986690

"On my first day as president, I will sign an executive order that puts a total moratorium on all new fossil fuel leases for drilling offshore and on public lands. And I will ban fracking—everywhere." - E. Warren

[phantom_power]

Sample responses:

"That tells me you're being bankrolled by Big Saudi Oil."

"Probably iranian/chinese money."

"Dear God,

Please do not let this woman become President.

Amen."

"Would you like your Horse and Carriage in the two or four seater version.
Air Conditioner comes free on all models."

"So, no oil, coal or natural gas. How are we going to heat homes in the winter and cool them in the summer?"

The world is fucked

[Twed]

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1170070887887986690

"On my first day as president, I will sign an executive order that puts a total moratorium on all new fossil fuel leases for drilling offshore and on public lands. And I will ban fracking—everywhere." - E. Warren

It's not a good thing that she only says these things after public pressure. This is one of the many reasons she's a distant second to Sanders.

[mojo filters]

This is one of the many reasons she's a distant second to Sanders.

Sanders' certainly putting the distance between himself and Warren!

[Twed]

You have to be very selective with your Nate Silver wankery to put Warren ahead of Sanders. It's really funny how you'll selectively forget everything we know about politics to help yourself to go sleep at night knowing that the system isn't going to start working for the people.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Sanders vs Warren is basically Corbyn vs Ed Miliband

As in, you could do worse, but there is clearly only one candidate on offer who would actually lead to mild reforms in the system

[Zetetic]

For a hundred years, the white workers of the South were the most exploited white workers in America. They were paid the lowest wages, they endured the worst working conditions, their housing was abysmal, their kids went to the most backward schools, and very few could send their children to college. But what did they have? They were given 'n**gers' to hate and look down on, 'n**gers' who couldn't vote, drink at their water fountains, use the same bathrooms, or sit up front in the buses or movie theaters.

Just so mental

(Setting aside the use of "mental" as a slur.)

Obviously fucking not ["mental"], as demonstrated by the media also having to invoke the [n-]word to report on this.

Pretty much, yeah. But it's an interesting example for considering the quotational use of slurs and I think there is an interesting difference in how media-reporting-on-this use the slur.

They're quoting a complete section of text that includes existing (quotational) use.

Bernie is using the quoted-slur as a term in itself, or something like that, and then using that term non-quotationally. A slightly interesting difference, that makes his a bit more... forceful? Even if it's still clear that he's not intending to deploy the slur itself non-quotationally.

(It's auto-censored on CaB, incidentally. I've not censored Bernie's words.)

I think I can understand why some people find even quoted slurs genuinely upsetting. The force of slurs is really odd, and always seems to somewhat transcend their use in any particular situation. (And I think that's sort-of partly why Bernie uses them there.)

To be clear, this is not meant to be a condemnation of Bernie Sanders. I would also considering use quoted-slurs in the same way he has in the section quoted above.

[Twed]

I agree with that.

Sanders vs Warren is basically Corbyn vs Ed Miliband

As in, you could do worse, but there is clearly only one candidate on offer who would actually lead to mild reforms in the system

Yep. One of those options (Bernie, obvs) represents a much needed departure from a terrible normality that will be the end of us all. Judging the two candidates in terms of usual politically drudgery is way off the mark.

That said, Warren is a huge improvement over compromise candidates of the past. Even then you have to accept that's because of Bernie.

[Twed]

I will be able to vote in the primaries this time. Not that it will matter much in NH.

[bgmnts]

Elizabeth Warren is the woman who lied about her heritage to get a leg up right?

Anyway, she's a woman and fucking idiot progressive so bye bye Bernie.

[mojo filters]

I look forward to Bernie Sanders and his long and storied list of senatorial legislative achievements, once elected President, effectively using that experience to pass his comprehensive agenda that will make "the system" work for the people!

I'm sure his principled refusal to eliminate the filibuster, should the Democrats take a 50 - 59 seat majority in the 2021 Senate, will not be encumbered when he successfully attempts to legislate all his marquee policies via the single yearly reconciliation process requiring only a simple majority.

Some cynical folks who thought they knew the process inside and out, will end up with the proverbial egg on their red faces. Who'd have thought the revolutionary with a peculiar predilection for arcane procedures with no black letter law basis, could pull such an innovative manoeuvre?

Moscow Mitch will, in hindsight, look rather naive at best. He thought he knew all the tricks of that trade. Hopefully some smart arse will point out his failure to leverage such legislative tactics was simply a consequence of missing out in enacting the departure of usual political drudgery!

[Twed]

What makes you this way? Do you work in politics or journalism or something?

[marquis_de_sad]

If Bret Easton Ellis ever wanted to do a version of American Psycho that satirised political hacks instead of Wall Street bankers, the style would be exactly how mojo filters writes.

[mojo filters]

What makes you this way? Do you work in politics or journalism or something?

To answer your questions in reverse order: a suitably vague yes, plus yes and yes, and hence been there and seen it all fail before.