US Elections 2020 thread

[Twed]

Sanders Campaign: "Healthcare that is free at point of service for all, free college and hey let's wipe out everybody's student debt"
Beto Campaign: "What if, right, we paid for the healthcare of veterans by making a tax that is only paid by non-military families?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/beto-orourke-war-tax-veteran-healthcare-2020-election-democrat-debate-a8972671.html

What a fucking tit. I wonder who pulls his strings. There's no way you would willingly think this is a good idea and then subjugate yourself to the backlash.

"Hey, here's who should be hit with war tax: the one demographic that doesn't profit from war"

[kngen]

Sanders Campaign: "Healthcare that is free at point of service for all, free college and hey let's wipe out everybody's student debt"
Beto Campaign: "What if, right, we paid for the healthcare of veterans by making a tax that is only paid by non-military families?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/beto-orourke-war-tax-veteran-healthcare-2020-election-democrat-debate-a8972671.html

What a fucking tit. I wonder who pulls his strings. There's no way you would willingly think this is a good idea and then subjugate yourself to the backlash.

"Hey, here's who should be hit with war tax: the one demographic that doesn't profit from war"

Ooft, that's surely the end of his campaign - that's just not going to fly with anyone.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

"Hey, here's who should be hit with war tax: the one demographic that doesn't profit from war"

All Americans profit from war. It's what protects our mafia-like domination of the world and hedonistic consumerism.

[backdrifter]

"Hey, here's who should be hit with war tax: the one demographic that doesn't profit from war"

Soldiers profit from war? They might get paid more when deployed but they also risk death, lifelong injury and lifelong disfunction due to PTSD. Seems absolutely fair to me that the people who don't take those risks should at least pay for the medical bills of those that do.

I agree that this is a piss-weak healthcare plan compared to what else is being suggested (and I hope it does end his campaign) but it feels morally sound to me.

Also, if there was a broad nation wide tax the American people had to pay for each new war started (and Beto's plan definitely isn't that) I guarantee you there would be less war. Currently non-military families can pretty easily ignore the outside world and just get on with their lives - not so easy if wars affect their paychecks.

[Twed]

Seems absolutely fair to me that the people who don't take those risks should at least pay for the medical bills of those that do.

Here they are, kngen. The kind of person who thinks that we all have responsibility for war like it's a natural thing and not a massive choice that many of us protest and the rest are tricked into supporting.

Currently non-military families can pretty easily ignore the outside world and just get on with their lives - not so easy if wars affect their paychecks.

And while we're at it let's make the atheists pay for all the churches.

[backdrifter]

And while we're at it let's make the atheists pay for all the churches.

Right, if soldiers and their families' were the ones that make the call to start a war and were the sole beneficiaries of any "profits" this would be a good analogy.

[Twed]

Hey, here's something: every soldier is more complicit in warfare than me.

It is true that many working class people are forced into that line of work, and I think that's tragic. It doesn't really justify your warped morality, though. How about less military spending and proper healthcare for everybody, hmm?

[backdrifter]

BTW I'm very anti-war. I just think the state has a responsibility to care for its soldiers - it's shit enough being traumatized/wounded without also being bankrupted by medical costs. And I think the wider population should feel the costs of major military campaigns - they certainly used to but now your average US citizen probably can't even name half the countries they are involved militarily in.

[bgmnts]

Hey, here's something: every soldier is more complicit in warfare than me.

It is true that many working class people are forced into that line of work, and I think that's tragic. It doesn't really justify your warped morality, though. How about less military spending and proper healthcare for everybody, hmm?

Free blowjobs and ice cream for everyone as well.

[Twed]

BTW I'm very anti-war. I just think the state has a responsibility to care for its soldiers

Agreed. I have a friend who is dying of brain cancer who mainly has to spend his time fighting insurance companies, and another who I occasionally have to drive places because he can't due to PTSD and the VA doesn't have the funds to help him.

it's shit enough being traumatized/wounded without also being bankrupted by medical costs. And I think the wider population should feel the costs of major military campaigns - they certainly used to but now your average US citizen probably can't even name half the countries they are involved militarily in.

How do you possibly come to the conclusion that it is the general public that is to mainly blame for the illegal wars. The point is that the very rich people who come up with the illegal wars and the media that profits from convincing the general public to think they are necessary are going to be completely unaffected by this tax.

[Mister Six]

in other "dem's being fucking useless" news

[bgmnts]

Political apathy is a pretty cardinal sin.

[Twed]

Free blowjobs and ice cream for everyone as well.

Oh, we're supposed to be fucking idiots now. I missed that, sorry. I'll join in.

Tax breaks for the wealthy trickle down to the working classes through job creation

[Mobius]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1143159975277187072

Why does the bottom of that donation page say "Paid for by WinRed. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. WinRed.com" whereas the rest of the page says CERTIFIED WEBSITE OF DONLAD TRUMP

[Twed]

How do you possibly come to the conclusion that it is the general public that is to mainly blame for the illegal wars. The point is that the very rich people who come up with the illegal wars and the media that profits from convincing the general public to think they are necessary are going to be completely unaffected by this tax.

Also how can you be so blissfully ignorant that you don't realise that this entire thing is to put pressure on non-military, poor families to become military families? Fuck

I'm not even angry at you, I'm angry at how you've been tricked into supporting such dumb ideas.

[backdrifter]

Hey, here's something: every soldier is more complicit in warfare than me.

Oh so morally wrong (or dubious) to be a soldier full stop? What if your country has only ever fought defensive wars? Are the Kurds who pushed ISIS out of their lands more complicit in warfare than you?

It is true that many working class people are forced into that line of work, and I think that's tragic. It doesn't really justify your warped morality, though. How about less military spending and proper healthcare for everybody, hmm?

Massive projection going on their. Of course the USA overspends on the military and under-funds virtually everything else.

How do you possibly come to the conclusion that it is the general public that is to mainly blame for the illegal wars. The point is that the very rich people who come up with the illegal wars and the media that profits from convincing the general public to think they are necessary are going to be completely unaffected by this tax.

It's a democracy - admittedly highly flawed and getting worse - but they certainly still have influence. And I don't think they are mainly to blame either - I just think a broad war tax would increase the population's awareness of what it's military is doing and indirectly reduce the number of campaigns started.

[backdrifter]

Also how can you be so blissfully ignorant that you don't realise that this entire thing is to put pressure on non-military, poor families to become military families?

Coz that's fucking stupid. "Hey kids, you're all now joining the military so we can avoid one relatively small tax."

[Twed]

Did you know that most US taxes already go to war and adding a "relatively small" tax pushes people further into that desperate line by not only directly taking money via taxation but also by funneling yet more funds away from programs that would give people social mobility?

How many rich people send their children to war?

[Twed]

He said he would also implement policies restoring military service as a pathway to citizenship and would allow veterans who have been deported to return to the United States with the benefits of citizenship.

Justify this. Tell me how this isn't targeting desperate people

[backdrifter]

At the very least "most" means more than 50% so no I don't believe that "most tax is spent on war".

Correctly me if I'm wrong but the US already cares for its vets via taxation. This policies is merely shifting the small proportion of that tax paid by the 1% who are military families to the rest - the increase on the 99% will be tiny. It basically symbolic.

Justify this. Tell me how this isn't targeting desperate people

I agree with one thing he says so I automatically agree with everything he says?

[Twed]

Correctly me if I'm wrong but the US already cares for its vets via taxation.

It's constantly under assault because it's a genuine public program, but if this is your belief then why do you support a further tax that only affects people who are not part of the war machine?

I agree with one thing he says so I automatically agree with everything he says?

It is the same policy that you have just been defending backdrifter

[Twed]

I have decided to hire some people to slap the shit out of a nun and her orphanage, and it is up to you to pay to fix the ensuing carnage, backdrift. It is simply your responsibility, as you did not help me hurt these people.

[backdrifter]

It's constantly under assault because it's a genuine public program, but if this is your belief then why do you support a further tax that only affects people who are not part of the war machine?

SOLDIERS DON'T START WARS. And they certainly aren't raking in the profits from them. You know those media war hawks and military contractors you (pretty much correctly) blame for wars? They are not "military families.

It is the same policy that you have just been defending backdrifter

I said I agreed with a single specific moral point - not that I agree with the whole policy which I haven't read and don't intend to.

I have decided to hire some people to slap the shit out of a nun and her orphanage, and it is up to you to pay to fix the ensuing carnage, backdrift. It is simply your responsibility, as you did not help me hurt these people.

Again the with stupid analogies....

The citizens of a democracy are not divorced from the actions of their government (duh).

[Twed]

The citizens of a democracy are not divorced from the actions of their government (duh).

What planet are you on

[Twed]

The citizens of a democracy are not divorced from the actions of their government (duh).

Everybody should be taxed for the concentration camps currently running in the US except for anybody who works at one.

Do we need to keep refining this until you stop finding get-outs to avoid the absolute evil stupidity of it all?

Why do you feel the need to pretend that taxing people who are mainly against war would help end war better than withholding money from defense contractors?

[backdrifter]

We've been over this but again: soldiers that go to war have a very high risk or serious physical or metal wounds or death.

You (seem to) agree they deserve publicly funded healthcare, you just feel very strongly that the military-families should contribute the exact same amount to the fund as everyone else. I'm suggesting that they have already (on average) sacrificed far more than the non-military families who are equally responsible for the war. Even if you think that level of responsibility is zero and its 100% the fault of those special interests its still equal between military and non-military families.

Why do you feel the need to pretend that taxing people who are mainly against war would help end war better than withholding money from defense contractors?

Putting words in my mouth there.

[Twed]

Deciding that the split is between military and non-military families is dishonest. Pretending that this is the logical way to slice the cake versus "the war industry and everybody else" is suspect, especially coupled with the absolutely bullshit idea that making non-military families pay tax would increase awareness of war and stop it happening, as if that's where the power lies.

[Twed]

Also, if there was a broad nation wide tax the American people had to pay for each new war started (and Beto's plan definitely isn't that) I guarantee you there would be less war. Currently non-military families can pretty easily ignore the outside world and just get on with their lives - not so easy if wars affect their paychecks.

The citizens of a democracy are not divorced from the actions of their government (duh).

[backdrifter]

Deciding that the split is between military and non-military families is dishonest. Pretending that this is the logical way to slice the cake versus "the war industry and everybody else" is suspect, especially coupled with the absolutely bullshit idea that making non-military families pay tax would increase awareness of war and stop it happening, as if that's where the power lies.

Yes I think the people still have some power. And they definitely care about their finances. But I can see that if your starting point is that US citizens have no control whatsoever on their gov we would come to widely different conclusions on a all sorts of topics.

If you think those quotes contradict each other I despair. Ignorance about what your gov does overseas is not the same thing as having no way to influence it.

[Twed]

There is some power, but very little. To decide that taxing those who are not involved in war instead of those who push immoral wars as an industry is bizarre.