New Doctor Who

[Alberon]

I think most of the stories are standalones except for the three two-parter stories. As I understand it though there's something of a character arc and Rose doesn't just disappear with the Doctor but stays somewhat in contact with her old life.

Mind you this is from someone who's watched just six minutes and has been avoiding detailed spoilers for a year and a half now.

[VegaLA]

One of the Sci-Fi mags has a run-down of the stories this month. I think it is StarBurst ..Starlog ? Is anyone going to tape the Trailers tomorrow ;)

[Alberon]

I'm going to be out when the trailer is first broadcast, but I'm going to tape it and in doing so will miss the first episode of Enterprise's final season.

Still, it is repeated in a few days and it is the one where the Enterprise has to stop these aliens changing history by helping the Nazis invade America. And people wonder why that was cancelled.

[Ambient Sheep]

Media Guardian interview with Russell T. Davies here (simple free reg required, no spam).

[weirdbeard]

The Beeb are first with the news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4326005.stm

And if anyone wants to hear the theme tune
http://rapidshare.de/files/794674/whonewtheme.mp3.html

[Darrell]

The Beeb are first with the news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4326005.stm

Right, so a deliberate leak, then, courtesy of those neon wankers 'the BBC marketing department'. They can't bloody leave anything alone, can they?

If the leak was external and accidental, they wouldn't have reported it.

[Alberon]

No, I think it was accidental. Mind you, I think there were enough preview tapes and such high interest that this was ineviatable.

And neither the theme music or the title sequence are the finished version, something that's been all but officially confirmed. It is obvious when you see the title sequence in the leaked bit that it isn't the finished version. The names of the two lead actors wiz past just like they do in the 1996 TVM and there is no shot of the Doctor's face.

[weekender]

It does seem a bit odd that the BBC are reporting news that one of their own shows that has been 'leaked onto the internet', doesn't it?

It is unclear how it came to be on the web and whether it is the final cut. The BBC was unavailable for comment.

Hold on, aren't you the BBC?  Why don't you ask some questions in your own company and find out?

Anyway, I'm disappointed that most of the episodes are standalones  that are 45 minutes long.  Whilst it's very good for an opening episode, it's not a particularly complex story, and it's difficult to see how such shows will work in the long-term.  I think I mentioned before that a lot of the show is pure action, and whilst it grabs your attention and leaves you wanting more, I suspect that the long-term Who fans will be disappointed if nearly all the episodes are like that.

How much dialogue is there? Is any of it witty/strange a la City of Death? Or does it mainly feature lots of running around and explosions in order to tempt the Matrix-jaded kids?

Well, there is quite a lot of running.  As I say though, I think that's a good thing for an opening episode.  There is some decent dialogue as well, not particularly 'witty' like City of Death, but then I watched that again last week, and not a lot of Who stands up to it really.

*SPOILER*

The Doctor walks around, speaking about the need to find the Nestene transmitter, which he explains is a massive circular structure in the centre of London.  He surmises that it must be completely invisible.  In the background is the Milennium Wheel.  Rose looks at it knowingly.  The Doctor looks at the Wheel and says 'What?'.  Rose looks at the Wheel again and nods.  The Doctor says 'What?'.  Rose looks at the Wheel again and nods a bit harder.  The Doctor looks at the Wheel, grins 'Fantastic', and runs off.

Now come on, he's a bloody Timelord, he'd obviously know that if he was looking for a big fuck-off circular transmitter in the centre of London, the bloody Milennium Wheel is a good place to start.  I know that, and I'm from Birmingham.

*END SPOILER*

Billie Piper is very good, incidentally, she more than holds her own against Eccleston - who is also very good.

In summary - lots of potential, and a great opening episode, but not enough substance contained therein to sustain a whole series.  I'm definitely looking forward to the remaining episodes though.

[weekender]

Here's quick comment I wrote to someone in a PM, I thought I'd post it to try and spark off a bit of a discussion of older Who, if anyone's interested.

I can see how a lot of Who gets written off as 'fanboy rubbish', especially after the JNT years, which I believe were responsible for the programme's ultimate demise.  I don't believe Michael Grade was responsible for it being cancelled, it was bloody JNT, with his need for humour instead of good storylines, which seemed to forget about the drama.

Now I've read that back, and whilst I agree that there are some 'classic' Doctor Who episodes from the 1980s, I don't believe that there are actually that many of them.  I'm therefore throwing the comment open to others.

[Dark Sky]

And if anyone wants to hear the theme tune
http://rapidshare.de/files/794674/whonewtheme.mp3.html

Pffft, I thought that that was a leak of Murray Gold's new theme, not the Mark Ayres remastered version of the Delia Derbyshire arrangement from the leaked copy of "Rose"...  

Got all excited then for no reason!

[Ambient Sheep]

Unless Murray Gold has done something extraordinary with it (and since I believe he's also responsible for the apparently-iffy incidental music, I doubt it), I'd rather have the Mark Ayres remastered version of Delia Derbyshire's superlative arrangement, thanks.

[morgs]

Ok weekender, I'll reveal my fanboy tendencies and say that I thought that Remembrance of the Daleks and the Curse of Fenric were cracking yarns, well-executed.  I didn't like any Colin Baker stuff, it almost destroyed my faith in the show.  Peter Davison's era despite some horribly cheap scenery etc has some superb stories - Caves of Androzani, Kinda (bar the snake), Black Orchid was nice, as was The Awakening.  The Five Doctors turned out far better than it could have done.

Oh, and I loved Logopolis!  Bit dated now, mind you!  So what is your favourite story then?  I like the epic nature of The War Games - though I think someone could do a modern edit of it and make it quite entertaining and max 90 mins long!  The Deadly Assasin was great but yeah, City of Death probably gets my vote, just ahead of Pyramids of Mars.

[falafel]

And if anyone wants to hear the theme tune
http://rapidshare.de/files/794674/whonewtheme.mp3.html

I would, but unfortunately somebody at my IP address appears to be downloading the file '3DSexVilla.exe' from rapidshare at the moment. Intriguing. What the fuck is a 3D Sex Villa?

edit: Oh, I see.
http://www.adultgamereviews.com/3dsexvilla.shtml

Sorry to have derailed the thread. Just to get it back on track, what *is* the theme like now? Is it at all like the Orbital re-version or is it all ambient and woozy like the original?

[VegaLA]

Its high time that Logopolis and all the other regen stories were released onto DVD.

[Z/Sb]

I love all Doctor Who - even the lesser liked 80s Doctors, Paul McGann's tv movie and the Peter Cushing movies. So there.

[morgs]

Good for you!  BE LOUD and PROUD!

[the hum]

JNT's time at the helm was frequently patchy, and the buck certainly stopped with him for a lot of what went wrong (in particular the 'costumising' of the Doctor and assistant outfits), but his early years were pretty decent.  In the end he was just on the show for too long, to the point where he himself had wanted to move on.  But in any case the show itself was not properly supported by the BBC throughout most of his time.  It's budget wasn't raised in line with inflation and the shooting schedule was by all accounts hectic to the point of insanity, something which frequently showed on screen.  I watched 'Warriors of the Deep' recently, which has to be on of the most shambolic pieces of tv I've ever seen.

There are still some real gems in there though - Androzani, Revelation/Remembrance of the Daleks, Enlightenment, and the whole of McCoy's last season bar Battlefield.

[weekender]

I didn't like any Colin Baker stuff, it almost destroyed my faith in the show.

It's bloody JNT's fault!  Colin Baker had some really, really shit stories, but he did *have the potential to be* a great Doctor.  The Ultimate Foe bears witness to that, it's a fucking great story, and it should be up there with a lot of the Who classics.  It's often overlooked though, but it's one of my favourites.

My overall favourite though?  I'm going to go for the Dalek Invasion of Earth.  Riveting story from beginning to end, it's got everything in my opinion - action, violence, drama, thought...(dare I say it?  go on then...)...romance...the lot.

Interesting you should mention the War Games, I loved that as a kid, but when I watched it a couple of months ago, I thought that episode 10 was really crap, Troughton could have been a lot more vocal..."Yeah, I've been a force for good, look, here's a picture of a Dalek, a Cyberman, one of those weird Brummie monsters from the Dominators, a weird underwatery thing from the Underwater Menace, they were nasty, honestly, no go on, please believe me please...oh sod you then."  The bloody Time Meddler was more of a threat than half of the shit robots that appeared in that scene, and that was Peter bloody Butterworth!

Time Lords: "Yeah, whatever, here's a cop-out excuse to send you back to Earth to save on the BBC budget".

In conclusion: yeah.

[Ambient Sheep]

A good article in yesterday's Observer here, written by a female journalist who was a rabid childhood fan and is still a casual fan of the show.

Generally good, but does include the following:

Davies is a devoted fan of Doctor Who. Long ago, in another life, he published a Doctor Who novel, and the young hero of Queer as Folk, you may recall, used to sit in front of his video recorder, shouting: 'I bring Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity!' (Then he'd go off and have rampant sex.) Such is the strength of Davies's feeling that, were he not involved in the new series, he, too, would be on the internet, trying to read the runes with all the other obsessives. But this doesn't mean he particularly cares what the diehards make of it. 'They're like members of the Flat Earth Society. It would be mad to take them too seriously. A second series hasn't been commissioned, so we are dependent on ratings. The fans are hugely vocal, but there's only about 2,000 of them, maximum.'

Two thousand?!  Shome mishtake, shurely?  Given that - as stated elsewhere in the article - DWM sells 30,000 a month, perhaps he meant "20,000"?

and

The next day I sneak into the BBC for a private screening. What can I tell you? It is very slick, with some good lines and sinister moments. There is a great bit with the Millennium Wheel. I enjoy it, but it is not, and never will be - how shall I put this? - Doctor Who. I hear the theme music and my stomach flips. But then Christopher Eccleston appears, looking dour in his leather jacket, and I have an overwhelming sense of loss...

...In some ways, there has never been a better time to bring back Doctor Who. Awash with conspiracy theories, suspicion is our lifeblood; CCTV cameras our guardians; genetic engineering our future...

...Perhaps, then, Russell T's Doctor will find an audience. But these viewers must be young, they must know nothing of Gallifrey or Exxilon or Karn; they must see the autons and the daleks with new eyes. Anyone with precious memories - obsessive fans excepted - is probably done for so far as the timelord's ninth incarnation goes. Then again, as [rewatching the DVD of] The Robots of Death forcefully reminded me, the past is not always what you think, and little is to be gained by wallowing in it.

[Alberon]

I hated Colin Baker at the time, but looking back it was the stories themselves I hated and he never had time to soften his Doctor as time went on as was originally planned. He's been very good on the Big Finish audios.

[weekender]

Ah, one person's memories against another's...there is nothing to be gained but insight.

Insight into the show though, or insight into the author?

[morgs]

Agreed.  Colin Baker was not the problem, his tv stories and garish costume and aggressive personality were.  He was almost like the Doctor in The Mark of the Rani, and I agree with weekender about the Ultimate Foe - in fact bits of the Trial are good, but it just wasn't the way I would've gone.  {struggling with an audience...?  Oooh, hit them with a 14-parter!}.  The Ultimate Foe is Deadly Assasin Matrix bits part 2.  There is more to explore here in the future I feel.

[weekender]

Colin Baker was not the problem, his tv stories and garish costume and aggressive personality were.

It wasn't even his aggressive personality, that showed an interesting aspect of the character which I would love to have seen developed.  Colin's problem was, basically, shit stories.  The Ultimate Foe rocks, I wish I hadn't sold my Trial of a Timelord video box-set (signed by Pip and Jane Baker, Anthony Ainley, Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant) for a tenner.  Still, at least I know it went to a good home.  It had fucking better still be there.

[morgs]

Ha!  I thought they went OTT with the post-regeneration psycho bit and the Twin Dilemma was crap, following Caves partcularly.  The costume was shocking!

I still have my boxset - unsigned!

[Z/Sb]

Colin Baker had some really, really shit stories, but he did *have the potential to be* a great Doctor.

"The Dark Dimension" would have totally rectified this but, of course, like a lot of proposed good ideas: it never happened. Colin Baker has become my personal favourite Doctor because it's so obvious Colin was giving this role his complete everything, having so much fun in the role and took a lot of shit at the time and ever since from an over-zeaous fanbase and critics alike. The most Doctor Who vids I bought involved Colin Baker because I really find him very enjoyable and trippy as the Doctor - no matter how bad some of the stories and/or supporting actors/characters are. I seriously don't think every story was bad in the Colin Baker era anyway, I think the "The Two Doctors" is an excellent story and was a great finale for Patrick Troughton.
It's a sad shame that the BBC has shit on it's most popular show throughout the years since it's birth - wiping old shows from existence, cancelling the series altogether, crapping on the Paul McGann movie in recent times even though at the time (1996) they were hyping it up to the max, etc. I actually enjoy Doctor Who more when I know it's not aiming for critical acceptance and not being too aware of mistakes and giving a toss about upsetting fans.

I love all the Doctors - I'm sure I'll enjoy Chris in the role, too. As the Brigadier once said: "Splendid fellows...all of them!"

[weekender]

it's so obvious Colin was giving this role his complete everything, having so much fun in the role and took a lot of shit at the time and ever since from an over-zeaous fanbase and critics alike.

That's a great point - I've never once seen Colin moan about the show or anything, and he clearly did give it his all, you can see that from his performances.  Having to put up with people generally hating him as the Doctor must be really difficult as well, which is a real shame because I rate his Who performances much higher than anything McCoy ever did, and I include Remembrance and Fenric in that, which were better stories.  Cor, imagine Baker doing Remembrance on his own, without any companions?  That would have been amazing, wouldn't it?

I actually enjoy Doctor Who more when I know it's not aiming for critical acceptance and not being too aware of mistakes and giving a toss about upsetting fans.

I think you'll enjoy the new series.  Based on this new episode, I reckon it strikes a nice balance between everything.

[morgs]

You're a very lucky man weekender... I have to go to the US on March 21st until 11th April - the extra long wait to see something that I have been waiting almost 2 decades for is maddening!  Patience is all I can have I suppose!

And I think it has been said before that of all the Doctors, only one was a real fan.  And he was the one who got mistreated.  A very nice man when you meet him too.

[Dark Sky]

I must say that I've been a Doctor Who fan since I was four or five and watched Sylvester McCoy in the programme's dying years.

And McCoy is still "the Doctor" for me, and I love him for bits for being a completely childhood icon for me.  And then on video and through repeats I came to see and fall in love with Hartnell, Troughten, and Colin Baker.

I must say that I never really loved Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker, or Peter Davison.

Maybe that makes me some kind of heretic, I dunno.

But Colin Baker is wonderful.  Brash and bombastic and lovable.  And seems so enthusiastic and kind in interviews and documentaries.  Bless him.

[Rats]

In the 70s, everyone used to watch it and there was no real stigma (from what I can tell from the period documentaries on the DVD extras anyway).

Ha. I used to watch it when I was little during the 80's if that's any help.

[Des Nilsen]

The new Murray Gold version of the theme tune was played on Radio 1 this morning by Chris Moyles, and I've heard a brief snippet of it.

I like it. But it does have a military-style drumbeat, which I think is completely unnecessary.
There are violins playing quick, urgent arpeggios and the original melody parts are there. I think it'll suit the new series down to the ground, but I really don't like drums in it - they're not 'spooky' at all.

Edited to add:

The mini trails for the new series start tonight just before Eastenders and continue on BBC1 & BBC2 throughout the night, with an apparent glimpse of the TARDIS interior on BBC2 much later.

Mini Trailer 1 on BBC1 at 19:29, 20:00, 20:58, 21:58.

Mini Trailer 2 on BBC2 at 22:30. (Inside console room)

Mini Trailer 3 on BBC2 at 23:52.

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