Moments of political catharsis in your lifetime

[jamiefairlie]

I used to say the same thing. However, it's unlikely Labour will clear up in England like they did under Blair. If Labour don't win considerably more Scottish seats at the next election they will struggle to form a majority, so Scotland is pretty crucial in that regard.

In answer to the OP, the GE2017 was fantastic viewing for the sense of upset and schadenfreude. And while the spectacle of the SNP takeover in GE2015 was enjoyable at the time, my feelings have since changed and everything else about the election was horribly depressing.

That's a very common misconception. in fact Scottish seats have never made the difference to Labour winning a UK election. Labour has to win in England to win an overall majority.

Secondly, the SNP has consistently offered to join Labour in a colation if circumstances required it but Labour's narrow-minded spiteful hatred of the SNP stops them even contemplating it. The Bain principle is in full effect in Scottish Labour, it says that Labour will always oppose any SNP proposal, as a point of principle.

Like Northern Ireland, Scottish politics is very different from England. In fact it's actually closer to Northern Ireland in a lots of ways - the SNP represent a threat to the UK and so the other main parties (Tories, Labour and Lib Dems) are operating a  de facto Unionist coalition, who's main purpose is to stop the SNP at all costs. Labour advising their followers to vote Tory in SNP marginals at the election was blatant and they have joined the Tories in council coalitions to block SNP administrations where the SNP are the largest party.

The SNP's massive rise in support is entirely due to this finally becoming apparent in recent years and causing the bulk of Labour's natural voters to shift their support en-masse

[Pingers]

Poll Tax riot, Trafalgar Square. A glorious leathering of the Thatcher government and their police henchmen, which precipitated the end of Thatcher. Also because it was brought on by their hubris.

[jamiefairlie]

1997 was cathartic for sure, especially after the nadir of 92, such a soul crushing experience. The subsequent betrayal however was the final straw for me with labour, always promising but very rarely delivering - I see they're still banging on about getting rid of the House of Lords, a promise that first showed up in their 1910 manifesto FFS.

Going further back, the launch of the SDP and their run of by-election victories truly did seem to promise a new dawn in UK politics and it's forgotten now but they were regularly polling around 50% in the months prior to that fuckwit Galtieri pulling Thatcher's arse out of he fire.

Thatcher resigning, when she cried leaving Downing Street, I felt like do a Cartman and licking "the tears of unfathomable sadness" from here bastard face. Also laughed when she died.

Scotland voting overwhelmingly for devolution was another. After being shafted by Labour in the 79 vote (the only referendum that had to hit a percentage of the voting population i.e. including dead people), this was unfinished business and felt really good.

Winnie Ewing opening the first session of the parliament with these words :  " The session of the Scottish Parliament, adjourned on March 25, 1707, is hereby reconvened."

Rangers going bust - if you don't think that's about politics then you don't understand Scottish politics

[Sebastian Cobb]

I used to say the same thing. However, it's unlikely Labour will clear up in England like they did under Blair. If Labour don't win considerably more Scottish seats at the next election they will struggle to form a majority, so Scotland is pretty crucial in that regard.

In answer to the OP, the GE2017 was fantastic viewing for the sense of upset and schadenfreude. And while the spectacle of the SNP takeover in GE2015 was enjoyable at the time, my feelings have since changed and everything else about the election was horribly depressing.

Do you think support for the SNP or indeed independence would be so high if Labour, especially Scottish Labour found it in themselves to be less shit?

[jamiefairlie]

Not now, too much distrust and their naked hatred is very unattractive, but if they had changed 10 years ago then yes, they'd be in a much better place.

[Blinder Data]

Do you think support for the SNP or indeed independence would be so high if Labour, especially Scottish Labour found it in themselves to be less shit?

Of course that's relevant. My post wasn't pleading people to vote Scottish Labour who have been shit for a while now. However, I believe jamiefairlie's "common misconception" that Scottish seats don't matter the UK general election no longer holds. Without Ruth Davidson's 13 Scottish seats, Theresa May would not even be able to rely on DUP to pass votes. Next GE is likely to be very tight and Scotland could make a big difference.

jamiefairlie, you seem very pro-SNP which is fair enough but I take issue with some of what you're saying. It would not be in Labour's interest to encourage a coalition with the SNP because it would undermine their message that Labour are the only way to get a non-Tory government. For many seats in Scotland it's Labour v SNP. You make it sound like big bad Labour are refusing to do a fair deal when it would destroy Scottish Labour further.

Also the SNP relied on Tory votes during its minority government phase to pass budgets and there are councils across Scotland where SNP and Labour have power-sharing agreements, SNP are in power with the Tories, etc. Cooperation and coalitions between parties is not as partisan as you make out, though of course since the rise of the SNP the constitution is what binds some parties together.

[Paul Calf]

Yet isn't that why you'd happily wave though a Corbyn government in the next General Election? "If I can't have none, no one else will either." The politics of spite and learned helplessness.

How well you know me.

[Paul Calf]

That's a very common misconception. in fact Scottish seats have never made the difference to Labour winning a UK election. Labour has to win in England to win an overall majority

The Tories wouldn't have been able to cobble this minority government together without Scottish votes.

[Buelligan]

[Brundle-Fly]

Thirty years ago this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snsdDb7KDkg

[NoSleep]

Pinochet's arrest in 1998 felt good, even though it didn't end as it should have (Pinochet taken to a football stadium, tortured, then shot dead just as Victor Jara had suffered in Chile under his regime).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY84jqSyspI

[Pingers]

Ceausescu being shot at Christmas 1989. Caused a bit of a row with my mum and dad at the dinner table, that one.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Looking at that Daily Mail front page with Teresa May looking confident and the words CRUSH THE SABOTEURS written in massive block capitals knowing what happened next. Lovely stuff.

[BlodwynPig]

Looking at that Daily Mail front page with Teresa May looking confident and the words CRUSH THE SABOTEURS written in massive block capitals knowing what happened next. Lovely stuff.

This?

[Jerzy Bondov]

Just the election result mate... Don't spoil it...

Although I suspect those pages will also be funny soon

[BlodwynPig]

Just the election result mate... Don't spoil it...

Although I suspect those pages will also be funny soon

JUST GET ON WITH IT!