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March 28, 2024, 08:54:41 AM

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What do you reckon to Malcolm Tucker?

Started by BritishHobo, January 28, 2019, 09:08:24 PM

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marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Twed on February 03, 2019, 02:53:37 PM
Mannion made less sense as a character for me, because (as others mentioned) he's a fat-cat Tory but also incredibly likable. Him being out of touch and out of his depth with technology and social issues was great, but he was also just too lovely. We were on his side too often, which was difficult to reconcile with him being the most powerful Tory politician in most of his scenes.

"Some of my best friends are money-grabbing wankers"

He's the only really political politician on the show. The rest are all third way careerists obsessed with controlling the narrative. Of course, that's political in and of itself, but you know what I mean.

I can't imagine the writers ever having that sort of affection for Mannion's left-wing equivalent, but that's partly due to when it made, I guess.

The Culture Bunker

Something I don't think they ever examined was Tucker engaging with a politician who simply wasn't intimidated by his shit and basically told him to fuck off in return - someone like Dennis Skinner, I guess.

Cuellar

Having watched it last night, when Mannion is visiting DoSaC he bumps into Malcolm and spars with him a bit, seemingly unafraid. Doesn't quite tell him to fuck off though.

ToneLa

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on February 03, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
Something I don't think they ever examined was Tucker engaging with a politician who simply wasn't intimidated by his shit and basically told him to fuck off in return - someone like Dennis Skinner, I guess.

When Nicola accidentally announces a leadership challenge, Steve Fleming is away with Tom and Malcolm talks to him on the phone apologetically like he's been bollocked, like his weird breakdown to Terri later hints at this too

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on February 03, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
Something I don't think they ever examined was Tucker engaging with a politician who simply wasn't intimidated by his shit and basically told him to fuck off in return - someone like Dennis Skinner, I guess.

Gandolfini?

Twed

Julius and Steve Fleming seem to be on his level. Julius is more reserved but less threatened by Tucker than others, I think. I really enjoy their scenes together, like mini-Hamlets.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Cuellar on February 03, 2019, 06:07:32 PM
Having watched it last night, when Mannion is visiting DoSaC he bumps into Malcolm and spars with him a bit, seemingly unafraid. Doesn't quite tell him to fuck off though.
I was thinking more somebody on his own "side". Mannion probably feels safer in knowing Tucker has no authority over him. Julius and Steve Fleming aren't politicians either, though I think Jamie tries to beat up Julius at one point?

ToneLa

Steve Fleming was an MP (you have to be an MP or a Lord to be appointed a whip).

Julius was a Lord wasn't he? (I'd say they're politicians)

Twed

Yeah, and a "civilian adviser" and "business guru" apparently. His position is a bit confusing. Like Alan Sugar in all but demeanor.

MrSerious

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on February 02, 2019, 09:37:03 PM
One of my favourite Jamie bit is when he threatens Robyn with keyhole surgery (using this fucking key).

Just the way he's unable to get the key out in a fluid motion, struggling with it, like a real person would do.

Jamie: I'm being polite, aren't I?
Robyn: Well...sort of
Jamie: Right, so fucking get on with it you fucking hippie!

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: ToneLa on February 03, 2019, 06:37:09 PM
Steve Fleming was an MP (you have to be an MP or a Lord to be appointed a whip).

Julius was a Lord wasn't he? (I'd say they're politicians)
Yep, you're quite right - for some reason, my much-hazy memory had Fleming down as some kind of civil servant. Probably because he took on Malcolm's job for a time.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: MrSerious on February 03, 2019, 06:56:31 PM
Jamie: I'm being polite, aren't I?
Robyn: Well...sort of
Jamie: Right, so fucking get on with it you fucking hippie!

And if you refuse to make your boss's tea, you know, they call you Mariella Shitstrop. Or Flouncy Sinatra, which doesn't even really work!

marquis_de_sad

Quote from: marquis_de_sad on February 03, 2019, 05:54:46 PM

He's the only really political politician on the show. The rest are all third way careerists obsessed with controlling the narrative. Of course, that's political in and of itself, but you know what I mean.


Although saying this, Dan Miller is a proper slick bastard, unlike the other politicians (Hugh, Nicola Murray, the Lib Dem bloke, Ben Swain, Steve Fleming, the one who Hugh replaced at the beginning) he seems to know where he's going and how to get there. Peter Mannion on the other hand only knows where he's coming from. He's not willing — or doesn't understand how — to change with the times.

Twed

Interestingly (to me), Dan Miller is already a relic by today's standards.

marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Twed on February 03, 2019, 08:32:43 PM
Interestingly (to me), Dan Miller is already a relic by today's standards.

Yeah definitely. He's now in Mannion's position.

Twed

I don't think anybody who would characterise the left is depicted in The Thick of It. Iannucci picking deserving targets* or just not relevant at the time?

* it's not like he has anything glowing to say about the left on social media etc.

Sebastian Cobb

I got the impression it was intentionality non partisan, much like its spiritual parent.

Twed

Non-partisan, but every faction in it correlates to something real in all but name.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Twed on February 03, 2019, 09:07:35 PM
Non-partisan, but every faction in it correlates to something real in all but name.

Bit like yes minister then?

Twed


chveik

"We're baking a self-eating cake"

"I feel like I'm in a therapy group being run by my own rapist."

" - I think it was Derrida who said there is no thing such thing as actual empirical truth, but only -
- Yeah, I'll tell you what Derrida said, he said 'Go fuck your face, Abbott!"

"quiet Batpeople"

so many wonderful lines

Mister Six

Quote from: Twed on February 03, 2019, 09:07:35 PM
Non-partisan, but every faction in it correlates to something real in all but name.

Yeah, which is the issue I have with Manninon. Malcolm and co are clearly post-Blair-era Labour, and get a kicking for the relentless media obsession. Whatsisface later on represents spineless Lib Dem coalition nothingness... Why do the Tories get such a pass, given what we knew of Cameron and pals at the time? Doesn't help that Roger Allam is so bloody charismatic and affable.

marquis_de_sad

Phil is the embodiment of Tory cuntery, isn't he. And also the offscreen JB, who is obviously supposed to be David Cameron.

Sebastian Cobb

Phil is the Tory ollie, in the same way that Cyril Macduff is Rugged Island's Dougal.

imitationleather

I've enjoyed rewatching series 3 a lot, lot more than I remember it at the time.

I wonder if I'll feel the same about series 4, which I felt spent far too long on the Lib Dem characters who just seemed utterly unmemorable and dull. Wasn't too sure about Murray becoming leader, either.

My first exposure to TToI was In the Loop. I wonder how that has held up. I remember fans of the series thinking it was pretty patchy, but going in fresh I thought it was one of the funniest comedy films I'd ever seen. Damn, I don't want that happy memory ruined!

A TToI today just would not work, would it? Although I don't need it to suck off my own political views, Iannucci despising Corbyn's Labour would probably make the whole thing a bit of a point-scoring chore. As it is it's a nice time capsule of a collection of dying political empires in the first decade (and a bit) of the 21st century.

And so many funny lines. I have to watch it with the subtitles on to catch them all.

marquis_de_sad

The original dynamic of The Thick of It was the absurdity of politics driven by the news. That was still the core of the programme, even when series three occasionally turned into The Malcolm Show at the expense of realism. Ironically, by making the message explicit in series 4 - by having the 'inquiry into leaks' - that dynamic changed. They were telling instead of showing. There's a lot of good stuff in series 4, but I really dislike the inquiry as a whole.

I think In the Loop holds up. General Miller eviscerated Tucker, in my opinion. Tucker only gets away with his face still attached on a technicality.

By the way, In the Loop and series three both came out ten years ago.

Quote

There's little (no?) representation of 'the left' because largely the left didn't really exist in that world, it was a post-Thatcher/arse end of New Labour show in which leftwing politics were largely seen as irrelevant, something that happened in the 1970's but not these days. That battle was fought (and lost) years ago so Malcolm et al - people who may once have been principled and idealistic, were now concerned with 'real power' not outdated sloganeering.

Nominally the left still existed, but no one cared. Occasionally you might get a glimpse of Dennis Skinner getting irate in some sparsely attended parliamentary debate but newsreaders and political commentators soon moved on to something more relevant (for them), some spin driven non-issue or media management catastrophe. The battles had been fought, the left had lost and that was the reality those characters lived in.

Peter Mannion and possibly Glen are the only two characters who seem in any way principled and both of them are continually pressured into betraying their principles for whatever short term political gain those around them are seeking to engineer.

At one stage Hugh might have been concerned with doing the right thing and standing for what he believed in, but by the time we see him he's too knackered, beleaguered and ineffectual to do anything about anything (and he knows it). Like most in the show he's just desperately trying to hold on to what he's got and avoiding any of the thousand different ways he might find to inadvertently torpedo his whole career.

Glen and Peter are more old school and still troubled by things that Ollie for example, being a shitbag, would have zero conscience about.

Maybe.

BritishHobo

In The Loop was my first exposure to the series as well, and I think it's incredible. There's something really fucked and horrible behind all the capering. I always feel sick at that bit where they pass the resolution to invade and Simon's just standing there ineffectually.

QuoteSimon Foster: Yep. That's that then.
Toby Wright: Jolly good. "That's that then" is your line for the ages, is it?
Simon Foster: What?
Toby Wright: Well... "I remember the day that war was declared. I turned to the minister and he said 'That's that then. Anyone want a mint?'"
Simon Foster: Piss off, Toby.

Loving that film so much might be at the heart of my thoughts on Malcolm, because it's by far the worst he is. If you're just looking at the show then he doesn't really do much beyond manipulating ineffectual politicians to keep power, but in the film he fulfils the Campbell role in that universe's version of the Iraq War. No amount of funny swearing at the Americans hides how craven he ultimately is in bowing down for them.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on February 03, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
Something I don't think they ever examined was Tucker engaging with a politician who simply wasn't intimidated by his shit and basically told him to fuck off in return - someone like Dennis Skinner, I guess.

Jamie, rather than Tucker, but in In the Loop Judy tells him 'I have not leaked anything, and I'm not going to be intimidated by some Cro-Magnon Scottish dwarf!'.

chveik

Quote from: MattD on January 28, 2019, 11:45:29 PM
His monologue at the end of the inquest episode from series four reveals how aware he is of working in such a fucked up environment. That maybe reveals his ability to tell what's right and what's wrong so does that actually make him worse of a character (as opposed to the likes of Ollie who have no such awareness and is just a pure cunt) when he had the mental faculties to know? Perhaps not worse but it makes him quite tragic.

But yeah, Malcolm Tucker - a real monster. But I believe the environment he worked in turned him into one.

I disagree. He doesn't have any moral compass. his rants at the end of series 4 only show resentment and hypocrisy, because he has been played, the same way he has played a lot of people over the years. and ultimately, his actions have had consequences for civilians, because he is powerful person that has greatly influenced the way that political decisions have been carried out in his government. I think he's only a tragic figure because Capaldi is such a wonderful actor. ultimately, he's more pathetic than anything, because he hasn't achieved anything of value, he has just delayed the inevitable fuck ups made by various incompetent ministers.

Robyn is the only decent person I reckon. but she's less interesting as a character.