"The Avalon model for touring"

[c]

Just watching this YouTube interview* with SLee and he mentions that he and Herring would make money from TMWRNJ and then lose it all because Avalon would put them out on tour and their "model for touring" was such that they would essentially have to pay to perform.

See here: https://youtu.be/AHfnCpH4-Oo?t=150

What is this evil model? Does anyone know?

*Good comments BTW, incl "The comments sections underneath Stewart Lee videos have let themselves go"

[Pranet]

I think essentially it meant doing everything as expensively as possible, like they were rock and roll stars.

[iamcoop]

Just watching this YouTube interview* with SLee and he mentions that he and Herring would make money from TMWRNJ and then lose it all because Avalon would put them out on tour and their "model for touring" was such that they would essentially have to pay to perform.

See here: https://youtu.be/AHfnCpH4-Oo?t=150

What is this evil model? Does anyone know?

*Good comments BTW, incl "The comments sections underneath Stewart Lee videos have let themselves go"

It's basically just booking the acts into huge unsuitable theatres with massive overhead costs in areas where they didn't have a particularly strong following resulting in them ending up oweing money at the end of a tour. I think Stewart mentioned in his book that when all was said and done at the end of the double act they had just about managed to break even financially. The more preferable alternative is Stew's DIY approach which was touring small provincial theatres, charging less money but being in control of his own bookings and merch operations, ie if you can sell 100 tickets at £10 in each major city in small venues then you'll establish and fan base and revenue stream which is far more sustainable and conductive to actually making decent living as a touring comedian. Of course I don't know if this is still applicable to Stewart given on his most recent tours he's been playing 1000 seater venues so maybe he's just big enough now to make decent money doing the typical touring model that didn't work for him in the past. Richard Herring still seems to insist on doing the "Avalon touring model", confessing in one of his podcasts that a recent Edinburgh fringe ended up costing him about 40 grand, much to Bob Mortimer's amusement.

[Stone Cold Steve Austin]

Didn't Herring lose all that money on a vanity project play no one watched rather than his standup

[DrGreggles]

It's basically just booking the acts into huge unsuitable theatres with massive overhead costs in areas where they didn't have a particularly strong following resulting in them ending up oweing money at the end of a tour. I think Stewart mentioned in his book that when all was said and done at the end of the double act they had just about managed to break even financially. The more preferable alternative is Stew's DIY approach which was touring small provincial theatres, charging less money but being in control of his own bookings and merch operations, ie if you can sell 100 tickets at £10 in each major city in small venues then you'll establish and fan base and revenue stream which is far more sustainable and conductive to actually making decent living as a touring comedian. Of course I don't know if this is still applicable to Stewart given on his most recent tours he's been playing 1000 seater venues so maybe he's just big enough now to make decent money doing the typical touring model that didn't work for him in the past. Richard Herring still seems to insist on doing the "Avalon touring model", confessing in one of his podcasts that a recent Edinburgh fringe ended up costing him about 40 grand, much to Bob Mortimer's amusement.

That was where he put a play and his stand up show on at the same (quarter/half full) 500+ seat venue for a month.
Avalon, if they're at all concerned with the the acts they represent, should be preventing that from happening.
Wasn't that what Stew did his rant about on RHLSTP?

[Pranet]

I don't think there is anything particularly extravagant about RH's recent tours. And until that play year from he says he had been making a bit of money or at least breaking even at Edinburgh for a few years.

[DrGreggles]

The stand up show wasn't extravagant, but the play had 5 or 6 actors in it and a decent set. Both were in the same big room, and it was mostly empty during both shows.

Herring spent that August moaning about how much money he was losing and how few tickets were sold, but that was the fault of whoever chose the venue - and had the idea of staging a play.

I do recall someone pointing out to him that, even though he was always in Edinburgh for the full month, by his own admission he'd only see 2 or 3 other shows each year (even though he'd be able to get comps for any Avalon shows). Hard to have much sympathy for someone complaining about poor sales when they never go to watch anyone else.

[Pranet]

Yeah I was excepting the play year. Apart from that year he was doing ok.

[hummingofevil]

Kitson is the comparison here. Say he plays the 500 capacity Durham Gala and sells out at £12. That's £6000 coming in. It costs £1800 to book for the type of gig DK does. That's a clear £4200 take home for him per night. No management, no advertising.

Do that 30 nights in a row and you talking £100k+ for a month's work.

[SteveDave]

I saw Lee And Herring in St David's Hall in Cardiff in about 1996 or so and there were about 100 people in a place that (according to wikipedia) holds 3,000. It was very echo'y for the first few minutes.