Students suspended over WhatsApp group

[Johnny Yesno]

This is my initial reaction - the racist comments especially, while heinous, read like the kind of blurted shock value stuff that many groups of friends indulge in, in private. I think they were just group-wanking over the extremeness of the bantz. One of the boys said "They shouldn't have read the chat. Were they expecting compliments or something. If you open this chat when you're not in it, you are asking to be offended. It's letting people stick their noses in where it doesn't belong" - and although I think he's a disgusting unrepentant little cunt, I can see his point. This has only blown up to the extent it has because the extreme bantz got aired in a non-extreme bantz environment.

https://thetab.com/uk/warwick/2019/02/01/group-chat-victim-reveals-warwick-director-of-press-investigated-the-case-33829

The victim told the BBC: "The group chat was shown to me by one of the males that was involved.

"He showed it to me and made it an active threat. He seemed very pleased about what was happening. He was showing me in an intimidating way. We were told later on that we should have been flattered by the contents of the messages. There were a lot of threats of gang rape. One of them, they spoke about wanting to gang rape me and then after they've discarded my body, they wanted to ejaculate all over it. They talked about my friend, they wanted to genitally mutilate her."

That's that theory out the window.

[Flouncer]

Just a bit of bantz, lads!

[Edit - I wasn't meaning to have a pop at grassbath there; obviously he didn't imply that what was said was okay at any point.]

[ToneLa]

https://thetab.com/uk/warwick/2019/02/01/group-chat-victim-reveals-warwick-director-of-press-investigated-the-case-33829

That's that theory out the window.

Bloody hell, the line about flattery. "Oh, you want to rape me? Wow, thanks, I didn't know you found me so sexy!"

[Quote]

"Baby, I just wanna genitally mutilate you tonight..."

They sound like an irredeemable gang of cunts tbh. And look like that too, when I saw the pics in that Tab article posted upthread they looked exactly how I would have imagined them to (admittedly this may be my own prejudices coming out).

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they might turn it around and become slightly less loathsome as they mature. It's just a slightly more extreme variety of the kind of twatish LAAAAADDDDDD behaviour that dominates at Uni's though isn't it? All those middle-class boys together, away from mummy & daddy and free to indulge their jack-the-lad fantasies, egging each other on to become ever more obnoxious...

[Replies From View]

One of the messages said: "Sometimes it's fun to just go wild and rape 100 girls."

While another said: "Rape the whole flat to teach them all [a] lesson."

Another post included a racially offensive term and anti-Semitic language.

At one point, a user wrote: "Rape her in the street while everybody watches," with another responding it "wouldn't even be unfair".

DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR COBYNE LOL

[Flouncer]

"Baby, I just wanna genitally mutilate you tonight..."

They sound like an irredeemable gang of cunts tbh. And look like that too, when I saw the pics in that Tab article posted upthread they looked exactly how I would have imagined them to (admittedly this may be my own prejudices coming out).

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they might turn it around and become slightly less loathsome as they mature. It's just a slightly more extreme variety of the kind of twatish LAAAAADDDDDD behaviour that dominates at Uni's though isn't it? All those middle-class boys together, away from mummy & daddy and free to indulge their jack-the-lad fantasies, egging each other on to become ever more obnoxious...

They do look like entitled middle class shitbags who've never been challenged on their behaviour before. I think they're more likely to double down and feel hard done by than learn anything from the experience.

[Quote]

They do look like entitled middle class shitbags who've never been challenged on their behaviour before. I think they're more likely to double down and feel hard done by than learn anything from the experience.

Well, there's a strong whiff of Men's Rights/PUA about them and their bantz, so probably. "Just another example of the anti-free speech, feminazi culture we've been indoctrinated in..."

[Flouncer]

Campus culture is so PC these days, you can't even threaten to gang rape your classmates any more - cultural marxism, mate.

[Icehaven]

It's strange. I don't know when things changed, but the current Legend Gary stuff has been going on since the mid-2000s at least.

The easy and constant availability of vast amounts of free porn in which women are generally treated like dogshit probably has something to do with it. Some 18 to 20 year old men now have been consuming hours of that stuff a week since the day they had their first boners, it's hardly surprising they have such a warped view of young women.

[Brundle-Fly]

The easy and constant availability of vast amounts of free porn in which women are generally treated like dogshit probably has something to do with it. Some 18 to 20 year old men now have been consuming hours of that stuff a week since the day they had their first boners, it's hardly surprising they have such a warped view of young women.

True, but I actually believe it's the pornification in mainstream culture that has had a more insidious effect on these young men.

[bgmnts]

Sorry for the Tab link, but this is pretty disturbing stuff, the hair straigheners comment in particular (again, about a specific, named woman) made me shudder:

https://thetab.com/uk/warwick/2018/05/09/named-and-pictured-the-warwick-boys-who-made-rape-jokes-in-their-group-chat-28615

There have also been reports that some of the men said they would "do it all over again", so it doesn't sound like they've learned any lessons here.

Why did they censor c**ns but not p*kis...? Bit odd.

Also, isn't blaming porn like blaming video games for violence? I watch porn daily and this stuff disgusts me soooooooo...

[Puce Moment]

It seems that the Deans of Warwick Uni have some understanding of their student body's parent demographic. None of them want to send their sons to a Uni that condemns them for boystrous banter. It's hormones innit?

[BlodwynPig]

I think                          it's fun to go wild and rape 100 girls

Disgusting, ban this member now

[Paul Calf]

Why did they censor c**ns but not p*kis...? Bit odd.

Also, isn't blaming porn like blaming video games for violence? I watch porn daily and this stuff disgusts me soooooooo...

Also rests on the assumption that sexual assault is both more prevalent and more acceptable now than at other times, when porn was less readily available when in fact the reverse is true. 

[Johnny Yesno]

Also, isn't blaming porn like blaming video games for violence?

I think it's more like blaming military first person shooters for making it easier to recruit young people into the army. They don't make young people more violent but they do play on ideas of heroism and adventure. There's also idea that they create a familiarity with neutralising targets at a distance, something which modern weaponry facilitates.

There was well thought out article by a teacher who reckoned sex education needed a bit about distinguishing real life from 'pornworld'. Wish I could lay my hands on a link.

[BlodwynPig]

I grew up with 90's lad culture and it seems like good clean fun compared to what we have now. Lads just wanted to have a bit of fun, they'd do stupid stuff but they wouldn't hurt anyone, and women were even welcome to join in as Ladettes. Now it seems to be more about reclaiming power over women, flaunting a lack of respect for them, and openly treating them with contempt and even hatred- and heaven forfend women try and do anything even slightly unladylike, their behaviour must be policed and they must be shamed over it.

I prefer Tony and Gary to Legend Gary, or something.

https://thetab.com/uk/2018/03/28/boys-this-is-how-you-should-behave-while-getting-a-blow-job-by-girls-63214

[bgmnts]

I think it's more like blaming military first person shooters for making it easier to recruit young people into the army. They don't make young people more violent but they do play on ideas of heroism and adventure. There's also idea that they create a familiarity with neutralising targets at a distance, something which modern weaponry facilitates.

There was well thought out article by a teacher who reckoned sex education needed a bit about distinguishing real life from 'pornworld'. Wish I could lay my hands on a link.

Do we know these lads even watch professional porn?

[pancreas]

Should be 'expelled' or whatever the uni equivalent is.

Rusticated.

[Buelligan]

I think the disciplinary team need donkey-raping^* or some other kind of epiphany.  These men need educating and chastising before anyone even considers any kind of get out for them.  The idea that they should be returning to the same campus, the campus where their victims still study, is so illogical (and abusive and permissive), words fail me.  It's a fucking disgrace (thanks, Bernard).

And another thing, normalising or excusing, shit like this sends a message out to women - men, most men, think like this, are like this (it's just that you haven't read their chat).  It's not a good message is it?

^*See what I did there?

[chveik]

The easy and constant availability of vast amounts of free porn in which women are generally treated like dogshit probably has something to do with it. Some 18 to 20 year old men now have been consuming hours of that stuff a week since the day they had their first boners, it's hardly surprising they have such a warped view of young women.

do you think women were treated better before easy access to pornography?
blaming porn or video games, exactly what a right wing person would say.

edit: what Paul Calf said

[Buelligan]

What would you blame for the attitude towards women they obviously have?

[BlodwynPig]

What would you blame for the attitude towards women they obviously have?

a permissive society, a dumbed-down society, a narcissistic society

[Buelligan]

Also rests on the assumption that sexual assault is both more prevalent and more acceptable now than at other times, when porn was less readily available when in fact the reverse is true.

I think you'd have to examine only people who frequently (establish what is "frequently") accessed porn (and probably categorise the porn too, separating the watchers using that) and adjust the figures to allow for changes in attitude towards reporting sexual crime to have much of an idea about that.

[Buelligan]

a permissive society, a dumbed-down society, a narcissistic society

But, according to Paul, sexual assaults are less prevalent (now), so does that mean that society now is less permissive, dumbed-down and narcissistic?  Does it mean that watching porn promotes healthy attitudes towards women?

[bgmnts]

It could just mean it doesn't have much of an impact.

Like video games, films, music etc.

[Twed]

Tune in in about 12 hours to find out!

[Icehaven]

Also, isn't blaming porn like blaming video games for violence? I watch porn daily and this stuff disgusts me soooooooo...

Yes but that's you. You and many like you could watch porn all day and not have it warp your view, but unfortunately other people are different and it does. I'm not blaming it squarely either, just saying it has an influence, not just on individuals but on the culture at large. Violence in video games is a completely different issue. 

[Flouncer]

do you think women were treated better before easy access to pornography?
blaming porn or video games, exactly what a right wing person would say.

It's not that black and white, is it? There is now a generation of young men who have grown up with internet porn at their fingertips - this is a situation which has never before existed. Some of the material itself is extremely misogynistic. Do you not think that having access to this stuff from quite a young age could have an effect on how young men perceive their female peers? It's hardly reactionary knee-jerk thinking to suggest that this might be the case.

[chveik]

What would you blame for the attitude towards women they obviously have?

well duh I would blame them. blaming porn is a cop out. "rape culture" or extreme misogyny and whatever you want to call it wasn't born with porn. 
blaming it on a permissive society is not that smart either, it's just good old reverse-chronological snobbery. there are obviously less sexual assaults in a permissive society than in a conservative/victorian one.

[Icehaven]

It's not that black and white, is it? There is now a generation of young men who have grown up with internet porn at their fingertips - this is a situation which has never before existed. Some of the material itself is extremely misogynistic. Do you not think that having access to this stuff from quite a young age could have an effect on how young men perceive their female peers? It's hardly reactionary knee-jerk thinking to suggest that this might be the case.

I started a reply saying exactly this so yours will do nicely! Also my original comment was actually directed at someone pondering why Tony and Gary laddism seemed to turn into openly nasty misogyny some time in the 2000s, and I suggested that growing up watching a lot of grim porn could have something to with it, not that it was wholly responsible. It's not about "blaming" porn, just acknowledging that it's likely to have had an impact on the thought processes of some young people who have grown up with it.