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Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]

Started by Cuellar, February 04, 2019, 02:31:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on February 06, 2019, 11:37:30 PM
All I asked you do to was explain your position, you might be right and I might be wrong but you haven't been able to articulate why that might be the case.

When someone repeatedly misconstrues and pre-emptively ridicules an almost entirely contrived version of your position, then yes, it does become somewhat less tempting to expand on it because the tone of the exchange has already been set

touchingcloth

The next person to post in this thread is getting coshed.


Nowhere Man

While you lot were arguing about this I was at the o2 seeing Tears For Fears, it were brill!

Cloud


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Liam Neeson was good as Terri in The Thick of It.

Nowhere Man


Mister Six

Quote from: Crisps? on February 06, 2019, 06:39:43 PM
If it doesn't contradict the sacred Independent quote why did you even bother posting it (and deny he said the BBC quote)?

Because, again, you said:

Quoteit's not quite the same as going out to randomly kill the first black person he came across, but was only stopped because he couldn't find any.

...but it is the same thing as that in every way that matters. As I said.

Do you have fucking Alzheimer's or something?

Quote
Your honesty about being a racist was commendable, IMO, as was Neeson's (and it's a shame this shitstorm will just make it less likely other people will be as honest in future), but telling yourself that everyone else is a bigot is not the way to deal with your own problems.

Ah, so you can remember what I wrote on here probably a year ago but not what you yourself wrote just up the thread. Get your head checked, son

Mister Six

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on February 06, 2019, 09:23:26 PM
No it isn't.

A racist outing himself is useful. A person reflecting on his racist thoughts and seeing them as bad is useful.  John Barnes being able to talk about societal racism on TV and bring up the very true fact that old bulldog chops was a white supremacist is useful.

It's only not useful to people that want people to think racism blips into existence from the quantum ether of racist minds when in fact it is a relatively recent invention that has been sustained and promoted in society for hierarchical  advantage.

It is however stretch to suggest Barnes was commending his racism and not his reflection on it.

Yes, although as others have said Neeson's backpedalling has undone some of the good that might have come from it (and somewhat backed up some of the criticism that said he was only showing regret for the urge to murder, not his racism) and this whole thing would have been better if it had come as a story in a warts and all biography or an op-ed piece in a paper or something, rather than an anecdote blurted out in an interview.

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on February 06, 2019, 08:42:45 PM
he's schrodinger's racist, both racist and simultaneously not racist for the purposes of this grand thought experiment

remove the troll please neil, cheers

what a glorious second post, why don't you use your main account

Crisps?

Quote from: Mister Six on February 07, 2019, 01:37:13 AM...but it is the same thing as that in every way that matters. As I said.

What you said is:

Quotehe did go out to randomly kill the first black person he came across, and was only stopped because nobody "approached" him

And when the difference between coming across someone and being approached by someone was explained to you, you then started the nonsense that the difference doesn't matter anyway. (Just as any Neeson quote but the one you post doesn't matter.)

So you're now in the position of saying that it 'doesn't matter' that he chose not to kill the first black person he saw, but confined it to the far less likely event of someone "having a go".

That the difference between definitely killing someone and possibly killing someone 'doesn't matter'.

That's what you're saying, mate, and it's ridiculous even for you.

touchingcloth

I will find you and, if you approach me, I may or may not kill you, level of blackness depending.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Crisps? on February 07, 2019, 09:28:04 AM
What you said is:

And when the difference between coming across someone and being approached by someone was explained to you, you then started the nonsense that the difference doesn't matter anyway. (Just as any Neeson quote but the one you post doesn't matter.)

So you're now in the position of saying that it 'doesn't matter' that he chose not to kill the first black person he saw, but confined it to the far less likely event of someone "having a go".

That the difference between definitely killing someone and possibly killing someone 'doesn't matter'.

That's what you're saying, mate, and it's ridiculous even for you.
I don't think it matters either, and it doesn't seem ridiculous. In context, the detail that Neeson wanted to be "approached" by a black man reads like he wanted to have some mitigating factor to hand, as opposed to a desire to limit his choice of would-be victims. In that moment, the only distinction between Neeson and someone who would kill the first black man they saw is that Neeson had some sense of self-preservation.

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Nowhere Man on February 07, 2019, 12:06:55 AM
While you lot were arguing about this I was at the o2 seeing Tears For Fears, it were brill!

Did they do Head Over Heels?

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Nowhere Man on February 07, 2019, 12:06:55 AM
While you lot were arguing about this I was at the o2 seeing Tears For Fears, it were brill!

Did they do "Everybody Wants to Kosh a Black Man over the Head"?!?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on February 06, 2019, 11:53:03 PM
When someone repeatedly misconstrues and pre-emptively ridicules an almost entirely contrived version of your position, then yes, it does become somewhat less tempting to expand on it because the tone of the exchange has already been set

I don't believe I've miscontrued what you said, in fact i've spent the majority of time trying understand what it is you actually disagree with.

You can't see how someone sharing their reflection on an initial thought of racism and realising that  it was wrong and feeling shame about is beneficial to taking on the societal problem of racism.  John Barnes explained why it is, I explained why it is, you haven't explained why it isn't, you just tried to muddy up of this up by demanding a level of evidence that isn't easily achievable, and one that is paradoxically in-achievable for your own assertion i.e. how much tangiable non-abstract good does Liam Neeson never saying what he said have on the world.

That was all just a big distraction either by design or ignorance, i don't really care about it, I am genuinely interested if you have some opinion/information as to why the process Liam Neeson described isn't useful.......there was a slither off an attempt in saying the half the black community were upset by it (the complete context or what? and why would they prefer Neeson to not share his experience) but other than that you've not explained why it is problematic.

I can try and do it for you if you like:

If a black man heard his friend was raped by a white man and admitted to walking around with a hammer thinking about killing an innocent white man then the press would probably be contacting the police rather than talking about it...........but that is the point, because society treats black men and white men differently, Neesons context and reflection is the useful part, seperating that from his pre-stage violence is to divert, as John Barnes was saying, away from the point that society taught him to think about black people differently.

No one is saying well done Neeson for thinking about killing a black man, you have got that far right?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Mister Six on February 07, 2019, 01:52:00 AM
Yes, although as others have said Neeson's backpedalling has undone some of the good that might have come from it (and somewhat backed up some of the criticism that said he was only showing regret for the urge to murder, not his racism) and this whole thing would have been better if it had come as a story in a warts and all biography or an op-ed piece in a paper or something, rather than an anecdote blurted out in an interview.

Not seen this back pedalling, will investigate

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on February 07, 2019, 12:35:06 PM
No one is saying well done Neeson for thinking about killing a black man, you have got that far right?
Again, I never suggested or even implied that they were, and for fuck's sake can't you tell that I got bored of this exchange around the time of your second hissy fit post about the word 'abstract'. I am not interested. Declare yourself the victor, you have successfully bored me out of any investment in having any position on this issue

pigamus

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on February 07, 2019, 11:21:26 AM
Did they do "Everybody Wants to Kosh a Black Man over the Head"?!?

You have no idea hwthmjrty feels.

Mister Six

#290
Quote from: Jumblegraws on February 07, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
I don't think it matters either, and it doesn't seem ridiculous. In context, the detail that Neeson wanted to be "approached" by a black man reads like he wanted to have some mitigating factor to hand, as opposed to a desire to limit his choice of would-be victims. In that moment, the only distinction between Neeson and someone who would kill the first black man they saw is that Neeson had some sense of self-preservation.

Yes, exactly. He was quite happy to murder a human being who had nothing to do with his friend's rape purely because of that person's skin colour. This is what people are objecting to.

That he wanted to justify this to himself as killing a "baddie" in "self-defence" (not actually self-defence if you go around putting yourself in danger with the intent to murder, of course. Malice aforethought and all that) doesn't matter at all. It was a pathetic fig leaf then and it's a pathetic fig leaf now. Even fucking Neeson recognises that, which is why his bungled backpedalling is concerned with killing a hypothetical Lithuanian rather than not killing anyone at all.

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on February 07, 2019, 12:41:35 PM
Not seen this back pedalling, will investigate

It was linked to upthread. Neeson is now saying saying that he would have plotted to kill white men or Lithuanians if his friend had been raped by a white man or Lithuanian, which somewhat contradicts the theory (which I shared) that he was ashamed of his racist attitude and bravely opening up about it, albeit inelegantly. Rather, it appears to confirm the belief that he saw the desire for revenge as the problem and didn't see why targeting the entire black community (or those willing to accost him) for the actions of one man is an issue.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on February 07, 2019, 12:45:59 PM
Again, I never suggested or even implied that they were, and for fuck's sake can't you tell that I got bored of this exchange around the time of your second hissy fit post about the word 'abstract'. I am not interested. Declare yourself the victor, you have successfully bored me out of any investment in having any position on this issue

Oh sorry I went to bed last night whilst you were still addressing me (bit childish all that isn't it mate really).  Interesting all the same as i've seen your little spat with another poster and without paying much attention was generally on your side but now I see there is perhaps something a little more pathological and weird about it all.

Anyway all the best sorry for ruffling your feathers.

yes, resuming this solely to call someone pathological and weird definitely isn't childish though. just take the win and fuck off

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Mister Six on February 07, 2019, 12:58:17 PM
That he wanted to justify this to himself as killing a "baddie" in "self-defence" (not actually self-defence if you go around putting yourself in danger with the intent to murder, of course. Malice aforethought and all that) doesn't matter at all. It was a pathetic fig leaf then and it's a pathetic fig leaf now. Even fucking Neeson recognises that, which is why his bungled backpedalling is concerned with killing a hypothetical Lithuanian rather than not killing anyone at all.

Can I just say that this is only one way of looking at it, you are only really dealing with Neeson on a rational level when he clearly wasn't.  It is much more likely his emotion and anger heightened and exaggerated his thoughts and behaviour however actually attacking an innocent person was too conflicting with other emotions around morality so he wanted them to make the first move.....to get him over the line as it were.  This is all in the context revenge and an impaired brain, we account for this in law as these are mitigating circumstances based on known biological and psychological processes.

PS - could you point me to the backpedalling stuff please I can't seem to find it, ta : )

Crisps?

Quote from: Jumblegraws on February 07, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
I don't think it matters either, and it doesn't seem ridiculous. In context, the detail that Neeson wanted to be "approached" by a black man reads like he wanted to have some mitigating factor to hand, as opposed to a desire to limit his choice of would-be victims. In that moment, the only distinction between Neeson and someone who would kill the first black man they saw is that Neeson had some sense of self-preservation.

Neeson didn't kill anyone. That's the difference. And the difference between someone not killing anyone, and someone definitely killing someone does matter. And it is absolutely ridiculous to try and claim otherwise.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on February 07, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
yes, resuming this solely to call someone pathological and weird definitely isn't childish though. just take the win and fuck off

No mate just my opinion having just dealt with you over a few pages.  it's childish to behave as you have done over those pages as is your insistence on this idea of winning.

Just my thoughts, no need to take anything further, all the best.

I don't insist on any idea of winning, I was just bargaining to get you to stop. That much is obvious.

It's childish to keep trying to get your digs in after I've already indicated twice that I'm not interested in this exchange going any further. Know when to stop.

popcorn

Five or six years ago I heard a live interview on Radio 4 with an author  who'd written a novel about some sort of paedo sex tourist. The interviewer asked him something about how much research he'd done to get inside the mind of that character. He said, completely blase, something to the effect of "Oh, I think most men have had fantasies of raping young girls and that includes me. I just tapped into those urges." The interviewer was flabbergasted and the interview ended abruptly. I've since tried to find what that episode was all about but I've never found it. I can't imagine an incident like that not making headlines now.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on February 07, 2019, 01:18:21 PM
I don't insist on any idea of winning, I was just bargaining to get you to stop. That much is obvious.

It's childish to keep trying to get your digs in after I've already indicated twice that I'm not interested in this exchange going any further. Know when to stop.

All the best mate, hopefully we'll have a better exchange of ideas a different day.

If you don't mind though I am going to carry the discussion on with other people that are interested in topic so i'm still going to be using the forum as I please.