Author Topic: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]  (Read 7500 times)

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #300 on: February 07, 2019, 01:32:26 PM »
Neeson didn't kill anyone. That's the difference. And the difference between someone not killing anyone, and someone definitely killing someone does matter. And it is absolutely ridiculous to try and claim otherwise.
No-one asserted that Neeson’s actions were tantamount to murder. The dispute, as I understood it, was whether or not there was a significant difference in Neeson’s mens rea compared to that of someone prepared to skip the step of waiting for a confrontation, regardless of whether or not the hypothetical latter person ended up murdering someone.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #301 on: February 07, 2019, 01:32:58 PM »
Fucks sake Verdoux you're not the boss of us. I think Neeson is a coward for not going through with his revenge. There, I said what we're all thinking.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #302 on: February 07, 2019, 01:37:53 PM »
now that's brave

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #303 on: February 07, 2019, 01:43:06 PM »
No-one asserted that Neeson’s actions were tantamount to murder. The dispute, as I understood it, was whether or not there was a significant difference in Neeson’s mens rea compared to that of someone prepared to skip the step of waiting for a confrontation, regardless of whether or not the hypothetical latter person ended up murdering someone.

I think you've both got valuable points here for what it is worth.  His behaviour is consistent with someone that is acting on emotion which often means contradictory behaviours and thoughts i.e. I am so angry I am going to kill someone, but I need them to attack me first.

I reality, away from the retelling of personal stories, he likely knew he was never actually going to kill anyone and hope to get into some scuffle as means of viscerally dealing with his aroused internal emotional state.

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #304 on: February 07, 2019, 01:44:12 PM »
Can we get back to this Tears For Fears gig please? I want deets!

Blumf

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #305 on: February 07, 2019, 01:56:40 PM »
Fucks sake Verdoux you're not the boss of us. I think Neeson is a coward for not going through with his revenge. There, I said what we're all thinking.

Youtube Library Inspirational Music

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #306 on: February 07, 2019, 02:06:42 PM »
I think you've both got valuable points here for what it is worth.  His behaviour is consistent with someone that is acting on emotion which often means contradictory behaviours and thoughts i.e. I am so angry I am going to kill someone, but I need them to attack me first.

I reality, away from the retelling of personal stories, he likely knew he was never actually going to kill anyone and hope to get into some scuffle as means of viscerally dealing with his aroused internal emotional state.
Yeah, there’s elements like that to consider as well, I’ve just been taking Neeson at his word when he says he had murderous intent, for the sake of discussion.

I don’t have a closed-ended take on the situation, I don’t think it warrants one. I objected to the characterisation of the media unfairly demonising Neeson, as I thought there was a decent diversity and level of reasonableness in the opinions that have been published in response, and then I ended up in a bit of a rabbit hole by saying so.

Nowhere Man

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #307 on: February 07, 2019, 02:23:52 PM »
Did they do Head Over Heels?

Yeah, this was the setlist:

Quote
Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Secret World
Sowing the Seeds of Love
Pale Shelter
Break It Down Again
Everybody Loves a Happy Ending
Change
Mad World
Memories Fade
Suffer the Children
Woman In Chains
Advice for the Young at Heart
Badman's Song
Head Over Heels / Broken
Shout

Opening act was Alison Moyet. Apparently the biggest audience Tears for Fears has ever played in the UK to date.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #308 on: February 07, 2019, 02:36:48 PM »
One uncomfortable thing I've noticed a few times (although not enough to call it a trend) is some black commentators framing the rape itself in terms of racist narratives about black male sexuality. "Where all the white women at?" is indeed a horrible stereotype, but to say that Neeson was acting solely on that societal prejudice seems to ignore or deny the report of the rape victim herself.

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #309 on: February 07, 2019, 02:43:59 PM »
Yeah, this was the setlist:

Opening act was Alison Moyet. Apparently the biggest audience Tears for Fears has ever played in the UK to date.

Oof, jealous!

Mister Six

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #310 on: February 07, 2019, 03:06:20 PM »
Neeson didn't kill anyone. That's the difference. And the difference between someone not killing anyone, and someone definitely killing someone does matter. And it is absolutely ridiculous to try and claim otherwise.

You can't go into a court and argue that a hypothetical other person might have been worse.

Neeson went out with the intent to kill a stranger on the basis that another stranger of the same race raped his friend. That's attempted murder, and apparently the only reason it wasn't full-on murder is that he felt a need to justify the attack to himself, or to create a plausible self-defence argument should he be arrested.

That some hypothetical other Neeson might have committed murder by not feeling the need to have the victim come to him is irrelevant. People are concerned that a (once) respected Hollywood actor has admitted to attempted murder along racial lines. That's what the entire week's worth of discussion has been based around. That you've failed to pick up on this isn't the fault of anyone but you.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #311 on: February 07, 2019, 03:10:04 PM »
You can't go into a court and argue that a hypothetical other person might have been worse.

Neeson went out with the intent to kill a stranger on the basis that another stranger of the same race raped his friend. That's attempted murder, and apparently the only reason it wasn't full-on murder is that he felt a need to justify the attack to himself, or to create a plausible self-defence argument should he be arrested.

That some hypothetical other Neeson might have committed murder by not feeling the need to have the victim come to him is irrelevant. People are concerned that a (once) respected Hollywood actor has admitted to attempted murder along racial lines. That's what the entire week's worth of discussion has been based around. That you've failed to pick up on this isn't the fault of anyone but you.
Just to be clear, based on what Neeson has said, he categorically did not commit attempted murder. That requires the physical act of...well, attempting to murder someone. It’s not the same as stalking around with some degree of murderous intent.

Mister Six

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #312 on: February 07, 2019, 03:15:54 PM »
Aye, my mistake. The rest of the point stands though.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #313 on: February 07, 2019, 03:16:27 PM »
I don’t have a closed-ended take on the situation, I don’t think it warrants one. I objected to the characterisation of the media unfairly demonising Neeson, as I thought there was a decent diversity and level of reasonableness in the opinions that have been published in response, and then I ended up in a bit of a rabbit hole by saying so.

The is actually very sensible, humans are messy.  Just think about the everyday myths we tell ourselves and believe, how they shape and influence our behaviour without directing it.  It is probably a bit complicated but one of the best concepts of how thoughts behaviour are created/acted on in conscious beings, there is this thing called that Foucault wrote about called the technologies of the self in which he describes the competing activation of the brain in hierarchical structures.

This isn't as complicated as it sounds a great analogy of this is parliament in which we have executive bodies that consent and direct actions but these actions are shaped by parliament, which in turn are influenced by groups and collections of members.  When I first learnt this I thought of course senates, parliaments, tribal councils are representations of our brains (a really simple thing right in front of everyone though rarely considered) we've created like the paintings inside our minds, our thoughts and processes into the material world.

It is the most typical idea that we are complicated but everyone else is simple, that is just because we only live in our minds and not in others.  There are parts of Neesons story that mean different things, i've actually found his story much less interesting than the fact that it opened the door to talk about how racist societies affect everyone, how organisations and news reporters are not simply impartial entities but influencing bodies in our social discourse.  It seems obvious to me a hungry news cycles wants a outrage effigy to declare cancelled/not cancelled and then after you've paid their advertising revenues for you to go back to sleep before considering anything else.

Racists can still be very much bad people that have been influenced by a racist society it isn't one or the other - this is Barnes point, that there is an interest in keeping Neesons racism unique to him as it means there need not be any discussion about why Neeson was racist in the first place.

rue the polywhirl

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #314 on: February 07, 2019, 03:52:34 PM »
You can't go into a court and argue that a hypothetical other person might have been worse.

Neeson went out with the intent to kill a stranger on the basis that another stranger of the same race raped his friend. That's attempted murder, and apparently the only reason it wasn't full-on murder is that he felt a need to justify the attack to himself, or to create a plausible self-defence argument should he be arrested.

That some hypothetical other Neeson might have committed murder by not feeling the need to have the victim come to him is irrelevant. People are concerned that a (once) respected Hollywood actor has admitted to attempted murder along racial lines. That's what the entire week's worth of discussion has been based around. That you've failed to pick up on this isn't the fault of anyone but you.


He said he only walked around looking to murder someone if they approached him. But no one approached him so he had the premeditation but none of the attempt to make an attempted murder?

Edit: - already been posted by Jumblegraws.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #315 on: February 07, 2019, 06:55:29 PM »
One uncomfortable thing I've noticed a few times (although not enough to call it a trend) is some black commentators framing the rape itself in terms of racist narratives about black male sexuality. "Where all the white women at?" is indeed a horrible stereotype, but to say that Neeson was acting solely on that societal prejudice seems to ignore or deny the report of the rape victim herself.

I think its more that he specifically asked what colour the man was, and then proceeded to have racially prejudiced thoughts. The victim was raped by a black man is presumably fact but he made it his focus, rather than hoping to murder any man who was tall/fat/late 50s/well dressed/scarred/a My Little Pony Fan. The victim may have had racist thoughts subsequently herself, but all we know is that Neeson specifically asked about race and focused on race.

To clarify, the fact that he had racist (even murderous) thoughts is not what makes him #cancelled in my book, emotional trauma can result in all kind of primitive feelings. The problem is that he went (slightly) beyond feelings and went out with a cosh.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #316 on: February 07, 2019, 09:23:59 PM »
I think its more that he specifically asked what colour the man was, and then proceeded to have racially prejudiced thoughts. The victim was raped by a black man is presumably fact but he made it his focus, rather than hoping to murder any man who was tall/fat/late 50s/well dressed/scarred/a My Little Pony Fan. The victim may have had racist thoughts subsequently herself, but all we know is that Neeson specifically asked about race and focused on race.
True. I guess I was misinterpreting the 'narratives' point as separate, or an adjunct to, the racism. I certainly don't think anyone could say Neeson wasn't being racist.

It being The Troubles, it's not necessarily hard to imagine he might have done the same if the rapist had been a Brit, but we shall never know.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #317 on: February 09, 2019, 04:14:00 AM »
Liam Neeson is #cancelled for considering killing someone for one week decades ago.

Mark Wahlberg threw rocks at black kids while shouting racial epithets at them and also beat a Vietnamese guy up so badly while ranting about 'gooks' and 'slant-eyed gooks' he was charged with attempted murder, but he's funny in that film with the teddy bear that has sex so I'll let it slide.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #318 on: February 09, 2019, 04:33:57 AM »
I don't think progressives have really forgotten or forgiven Wahlberg but Wahlberg is just popular and savvy enough to prevent it breaking into mainstream consciousness. I think most people just see it as a youthful indiscretion without all the facts.

Personally I find Neeson and his backtrack problematic.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #319 on: February 09, 2019, 08:54:41 AM »
Abe Lincoln argued black people were inferior to whites, never ceased trying to remove them from US soil and carried out the biggest racial mass execution in American history, but he saved a white supremacist superstate from oblivion so he's alright by progressives.

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Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #320 on: February 09, 2019, 04:05:36 PM »
Cancel the fucking lot of us for having human brains capable of bad thoughts.

End thread.

Re: Fun Liam Neeson Anecdote [split topic] [merged]
« Reply #321 on: February 09, 2019, 04:11:52 PM »
Liam Neeson is #cancelled for considering killing someone for one week decades ago.

Mark Wahlberg threw rocks at black kids while shouting racial epithets at them and also beat a Vietnamese guy up so badly while ranting about 'gooks' and 'slant-eyed gooks' he was charged with attempted murder, but he's funny in that film with the teddy bear that has sex so I'll let it slide.

People are reacting to an interview Neeson just did. The Wahlberg thing wasn't just in the news was it. That doesn't mean everyone's fine with Wahlberg.