The ethics of graffiti

[Fambo Number Mive]

I feel slightly uncomfortable with people being praised for spraying an artwork on someone's property without asking the property owner just because the artwork is good or the artist is famous. It's better than those tedious tags which are everywhere but I think of poor Ian Lewis:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46634242

Ian Lewis, who built the garage the artwork was painted on to prevent his car being damaged, said he had not slept over fears it might be vandalised.

Neath Port Talbot council has installed a fence around the garage to help protect it.

Really, councils would be better off having designated areas for such art (and some do) rather than having another Ian Lewis. It just seems a bit unfair that someone has to take on such responsibility because of the actions of a famous artist (who was invited to do a piece, but not by Mr Lewis to do it on his garage).

A second graffiti artist has sprayed a picture in Port Talbort: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47137188

And its great, and the manager of the tyre shop is happy, but again he wasn't asked first.

How would you feel if a Banksy was sprayed on your garage and you had to deal with all the visitors?

[Shit Good Nose]

I work with someone who had a (genuine) Banksy done on her house about ten years ago just as she was about to put it on the market.  No estate agent would take it on because of the Banksy, so they were forced down the auction route.  Unfortunately no one bid on it as it was valued with the Banksy taken into account, which made the price extortionate for what the house was (a two bed end terrace) and the only people at that auction were house buyers, not art collectors.  She saw it as vandalism pure and simple and, after nearly six months of trying (and failing) to sell, she eventually got someone to scrape it off, and the house went back on the market and sold quickly and easily.  If that happened now in these crazy times, she'd probably get arrested or face a barrage of public hate on social media.

So there are two sides to every story.

I think good graffiti is fine on things like bridges, public walls etc, but I don't think it's on on private property, at least private domestic property.

[Buelligan]

I can understand the reasons people get upset about graffiti.  Not sure I always agree with them though.

Some kids (poor kids from a troubled family) were moved into my village once, along with their harried mum.  The kids got up to all sorts, one episode of which was to paint small designs on everyone's door or house.  I didn't mind, I actually like mine and they're still there - a primitive smiling face and a small heart on the door - but there were other people who went almost insane with rage at the time (some of the images were less attractive in fairness but possibly good honest art all the same).  The family got moved away, though I'm not sure if this was why. 

I quite like grafitti - as long as it isn't hateful or damaging to something that is beautiful in its own right.



In the local town, the headquarters of the Front Nationale gets sprayed with very rude and explicit suggestions and images every time they repaint.  I can't say I'm averse to it, even though it looks bad (a pristine Front Nationale HQ looks worse, IMO) and is aggressive (that's certain), I know this is wrong of me and yet it feels so right (left).

Sometimes I wonder if the anti-graffitists are a bit like a mum asking Vincent Van G when he's going to get a proper job or tidying up his studio, getting rid of all that dust and mess and weirdness and emotion to make a nice magnolia space where he could bring some nice friends. 

[Buelligan]

PS  I'd bloody love it if Banksy painted on the outside wall I do have.  Not because he's famous and certainly not because of the visitors, not keen on massed ranks, I'd love it because I'm afraid I do like a bit of Banksy and I don't care who knows it.

I was contemplating spraying Banksy's graffiti comment (in French) onto that wall anyway, triggered by the efforts of my tiny ex-neighbours and have only been held back by the price of spray cans (I am not a thief, I'm afraid).

[ToneLa]

I feel slightly uncomfortable with people being praised for spraying an artwork on someone's property without asking the property owner just because the artwork is good or the artist is famous.

I'm not good and I'm certainly not famous. Where do you live??

Naw seriously. I can sort of appreciate a wee bit of thinking about crossing the line from genuinely public spaces, but members of the public are unpredictable. They worry, they do stupid things. I'm doing stupid things right now!

This Ian Lewis. Not being able to sleep in case it gets vandalised. Glad he didn't whack a load of black paint over it, but I think he's gone a bit too far in the other direction, a wee bit of pride.

'I just want everyone to see it,' he says. Christ he sounds like a parent. Maybe when the graffito turns 16 he'll start to worry it'll get pregnant to next door's conservatory and have a brick with a little Banksy on, and next door's conservatory won't pay anything towards the inevitable cost of building a wall with that brick.

Don't you see, Fambo? I'm sure you do. I'm glad your overreaching concern was settled.

How would you feel if a Banksy was sprayed on your garage and you had to deal with all the visitors?

Big curtain. Fiver a peek, no phones.

[Harley_Quim]

Banksy is popular simply because he's popular. The work is stencilled and often done by a group of people, the message simple and easy to understand. Sure, its better than that awful "tagging" stuff the yoofs like to do, but its nothing special. Combine that with the apparent immunity he's gained from the laws and rules restricting other potential "artists" due to his popularity and he's got very few people as well known as himself to contend with.

So long as people keep glorifying the stuff then the ethics of the entire thing don't matter as rules will be bent in order to preserve the work, which only adds to the perception of value and continues the entire process.

[ToneLa]

So long as people keep glorifying the stuff then the ethics of the entire thing don't matter as rules will be bent in order to preserve the work, which only adds to the perception of value and continues the entire process.

(Believe that's what his art gallery prank was aboot)

So your answer...

What would you do if a Banksy was sprayed on your garage and you had to deal with all the visitors?

Would be interesting!

[imitationleather]

TOX19

[Buelligan]

[buzby]

TOX19

KING ROBBO

The one on the garage in the OP has already been sold for a six-figure sum to gallery owner Giles Brandler, so Mr. Lewis can sleep easy again.

At least the Ame72 burner on the tyre fitters is actual graffiti and not a lame stencil job.

[Buelligan]

I don't understand this stencil problem.  What is this stencil problem?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Fuck 'em, property's theft anyway.

[buzby]

I don't understand this stencil problem.  What is this stencil problem?

Warhol could paint - the Campbell's soup series was largely hand painted. He turned to using silkscreens after that as he wanted to expand on the themes of repetition and  mass production in art. There's nothing wrong with using stencils or silkscreens to get your message across, but using stencils for grafitti either indicates you aren't very skilled with a can (and he's been doing it long enough now that he should be) or want to get it done quicker so you don't get collared.

Banksy elbowed his way into the street art world without understanding the rules or respecting the other artists who had been doing it for decades before him. That's what was behind the long-running feud King Robbo had with him.

[ToneLa]

Tags: Blec le Rat would respect your garage

[Buelligan]

Warhol could paint - the Campbell's soup series was largely hand painted. He turned to using silkscreens after that as he wanted to expand on the themes of repetition and  mass production in art. There's nothing wrong with using stencils or silkscreens to get your message across, but using stencils for grafitti either indicates you aren't very skilled with a can (and he's been doing it long enough now that he should be) or want to get it done quicker so you don't get collared.

Banksy elbowed his way into the street art world without understanding the rules or resepcting the other artists who had been doing it for decades before him. That's what was behind the long-running feud King Robbo had with him.

I'm not sure I care at all about who is best at doing art.  I'm not a subscriber to the idea that there can only be one top art person.  And I don't agree that others can dictate how good art is made - they can have opinions on how they like their art to be made but that's all they are, opinions.  Art stands above all "rules".

Artists must choose their own way of working and that is their private choice.  How difficult or easy a work of art is to produce is not a useful yardstick for judging its value as a piece of Art IMO.

[imitationleather]

Banksy elbowed his way into the street art world without understanding the rules or resepcting the other artists who had been doing it for decades before him. That's what was behind the long-running feud King Robbo had with him.

Obviously you're already aware of this, buzby, but for those who aren't the feud is covered in this excellent documentary: https://vimeo.com/39575088

When I saw it, having no prior knowledge of King Robbo, I wasn't sure if the whole thing was an elaborate prank by Banksy in the same manner that Exit Through The Gift Shop seems to be.

[hermitical]

I work with someone who had a (genuine) Banksy done on her house about ten years ago just as she was about to put it on the market.

When I lived in Easton/Fishponds I was around the corner from a couple of Banksy pieces that were accidentally covered up
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6444501.stm





https://sociorobotics.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/banksy-gorilla-in-eastville-bristol-painted-over/

Before



After



Reimagined

[Shit Good Nose]

I can't remember what he did on her house.  She did take photos and I've seen them, but that was years ago and we work in different towns now.

But suffice to say her opinion of graffiti, and specifically Banksy, are incredibly low, given that he basically fucked her life for getting on for a year.

[pigamus]

What exactly is an 'authentic' Banksy? You ring the bloke up and he says, 'Yeah, that was me'?

[imitationleather]

What exactly is an 'authentic' Banksy? You ring the bloke up and he says, 'Yeah, that was me'?

I believe they get posted on the Banksy Instagram if they're real.

(Sounds like I am taking the piss. I'm not.)

[Neomod]

Best Evva..

[pigamus]

My mom had one who was partial to Rice Krispies.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Most spray can graffiti you see around is territorial pissing, not art, and it runs down the area where it exists. A small amount is really funny and well located.

The worst aspect of all is the imposition of it. Like someone letting themselves into your house, like someone changing the music you're listening to, like someone blowing smoke in your face. I preferred the wall the way it was.

Art, not territorial pissing, is different. A mural made with spray cans is a mural. They should probably ask permission when it involves ordinary people.

[ToneLa]

Most spray can graffiti you see around is territorial pissing, not art, and it runs down the area where it exists. A small amount is really funny and well located.

The worst aspect of all is the imposition of it. Like someone letting themselves into your house, like someone changing the music you're listening to, like someone blowing smoke in your face. I preferred the wall the way it was.

Art, not territorial pissing, is different. They should probably ask permission when it involves ordinary people.

Aye. I've seen some great graffiti, where I can appreciate the skill, the humour, what they were trying to do - "art". In other words, helps if it's good! Like I said upthread, when it involves Joe Public's property, it becomes different - because then I question the intent more.

Last great "art" piece I saw was on the South Bank

[Large Noise]

Warhol could paint - the Campbell's soup series was largely hand painted. He turned to using silkscreens after that as he wanted to expand on the themes of repetition and  mass production in art. There's nothing wrong with using stencils or silkscreens to get your message across, but using stencils for grafitti either indicates you aren't very skilled with a can (and he's been doing it long enough now that he should be) or want to get it done quicker so you don't get collared.

Banksy elbowed his way into the street art world without understanding the rules or respecting the other artists who had been doing it for decades before him. That's what was behind the long-running feud King Robbo had with him.

The type of stuff Banksy does could not be done illegally in high-profile spots without stencils. Say the Pulp Fiction one; something that size, done freehand, that would actually be recognisable as the characters, would take an absolute minimum of 2 hours (and that would be extremely fast). And you'd need to do it during daylight hours, it'd be impossible to get right at night without lighting yourself up as you painted.  No graffiti writer is looking at that and thinking "he's had to use stencils cause he's not good enough, or too scared, to do it without them".

[Pijlstaart]

Love to citizens arrest Banksy. You're a criminal, Banksy, you're going to pay for your crimes. It'd be a wallless jail, so he can't do his graffiti on the jail walls, he'd be chained to a pole in a field.

[Rolf Lundgren]

It breaks my heart when I'm on the M25 and see the Give Peas a Chance graffiti has been replaced by Give Helch a Break. The selfishness is unbelievable. Helch can go fuck himself.

[DangledTeeth]

Especially with me, the object is more, not the biggest and beautifulest but moaare!!

[Zetetic]

The type of stuff Banksy does could not be done illegally in high-profile spots without stencils.

I don't think that garage in NPT even backs onto a national cycle route.

(It'd be 4 or 887 if you want to check.)

[Buelligan]

It breaks my heart when I'm on the M25 and see the Give Peas a Chance graffiti has been replaced by Give Helch a Break. The selfishness is unbelievable. Helch can go fuck himself.

Used to love this one on a bridge over the M4 into Hell.