Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty suspension - will we see a new Cold War

[Fambo Number Mive]

I am aware that this was discussed in the Trump thread but given how major it appears to be, I thought it would be worth it having its own thread. It does seem rather alarming that the US and Russia have withdrawn. Given how silly both Trump and Putin are, are we likely to see another Cold War? Or has the Cold War already begun again with the tensions in Ukraine and the situation in Syria? I can imagine Trump not just pressing the nuclear button but raring to press it, having to be held back by his advisors.

[Paul Calf]

I think Trump is a much bigger risk than Putin in the taking-us-to-war-on-a-gigantic-fuckup-or-ego-trip stakes, but I don't think it's that likely.

The very idea that it's possible is fucking horrifying though.

[bgmnts]

Iron Maiden album sales will see a resurgence.

Also to put Trump on the same level of statesman as Putin seems a genuine insult to dictatorial bastardry.

[Jittlebags]

Now Idi Amin was a proper dictator. You're an amateur unless you play football with your enemies' heads.

[ZoyzaSorris]

US elite is on road to full blown mental breakdown due to the crumbling edifice of the petrodollar that has kept their joke economy and its bloated war machine afloat for years.

All who stand in the way of US currency hegemony must be crushed, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, Russia, China and so on. Unfortunately for them we are seeing the limits of US power all too clearly in Syria and hopefully in Venezuela too. Russia and China are looking like they will tolerate no more Libyas. And given they have nuclear weapons they are the only countries the US really can't do much about. But the US elite sees this is a war for survival, survival of their unsustainable positions of extreme privilege in perpetuity. So they are constantly dreaming of ways to neutralise the Russian and Chinese arsenals, essentially the only thing standing in the way of their quest for full spectrum global economic dominance and the ability to milk the world dry for ever more. They dream dangerous delusional fantasies of being able to outcompete their foes in a nuclear arms race, making a first strike victory possible.

By their extreme belligerence the US elites are just forcing countries to start developing using parallel non-US controlled financial systems and probably hastening their demise.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I think Trump is a much bigger risk than Putin in the taking-us-to-war-on-a-gigantic-fuckup-or-ego-trip stakes, but I don't think it's that likely.

Oh aye, Putin's a cunt but he knows exactly what he's doing and how far he can push people; in many ways you could say he's a master of his craft.

[Alberon]

Hopefully not a full blown Cold War. The ideology isn't there anymore so the Americans can't get wound up about damn commies.

Anyway despite the end of the last Cold War decades ago there's always been more than enough nuclear weapons pointed at each other to finish off all life on the planet.

[imitationleather]

These days you have the added fun of sociopaths like TFM (except versions of TFM who have managed to get into positions of power) who seriously think that the exchange of small-scale nuclear warheads isn't a bad idea in the geopolitical conflicts that the dying superpowers are always getting themselves involved in. Rather than something to be avoided at all costs, they actually think nuking places is a good tactic to calm situations down and get what they perceive to be rogue states to fall in line and do what the US wants. (I'll always remember TFM advocating dropping small nuclear bombs on non-capital cities as a future war tactic, and getting confused and thinking it had happened loads in the past - rather than just in Japan at the end of World War 2. The fucking mentalist.) It's the next step along the road to our civilisation's extinction and will ensure that this Cold War is a lot more warm than the last one.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Should be manditory for all Politcians over the world to watch Threads.

[Crisps?]

Hopefully not a full blown Cold War. The ideology isn't there anymore so the Americans can't get wound up about damn commies.

Even that doesn't stop them. Americans are always going on about commies, or comrades or posting hammer and sickles. Half of them probably genuinely do think Russia is communist.

The problem with the forthcoming collapse and extinction of the USA is that Americans are insane and will try to take everyone else out with them.

[Captain Z]

Project fear.

[Mr_Simnock]

I am aware that this was discussed in the Trump thread but given how major it appears to be, I thought it would be worth it having its own thread. It does seem rather alarming that the US and Russia have withdrawn. Given how silly both Trump and Putin are, are we likely to see another Cold War? Or has the Cold War already begun again with the tensions in Ukraine and the situation in Syria? I can imagine Trump not just pressing the nuclear button but raring to press it, having to be held back by his advisors.

I think there has been a rather desperate attempt over the past 5 years by certain parts of the US Gov/elite to get one started again but I don't think it's coming along as they are hopeing for and then there is this (post below) which I think is an excellent summation of where those forces now stand....

US elite is on road to full blown mental breakdown due to the crumbling edifice of the petrodollar that has kept their joke economy and its bloated war machine afloat for years.

All who stand in the way of US currency hegemony must be crushed, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, Russia, China and so on. Unfortunately for them we are seeing the limits of US power all too clearly in Syria and hopefully in Venezuela too. Russia and China are looking like they will tolerate no more Libyas. And given they have nuclear weapons they are the only countries the US really can't do much about. But the US elite sees this is a war for survival, survival of their unsustainable positions of extreme privilege in perpetuity. So they are constantly dreaming of ways to neutralise the Russian and Chinese arsenals, essentially the only thing standing in the way of their quest for full spectrum global economic dominance and the ability to milk the world dry for ever more. They dream dangerous delusional fantasies of being able to outcompete their foes in a nuclear arms race, making a first strike victory possible.

By their extreme belligerence the US elites are just forcing countries to start developing using parallel non-US controlled financial systems and probably hastening their demise.

[Buelligan]

Now Idi Amin was a proper dictator. You're an amateur unless you play football with your enemies' heads.

I went to a party in Wales where the Hell's Angels played football with their enemies' whole bodies (including but not exclusively, their heads).  With actual goals and goalies and everything.  Not sure if there was a Ref, it was hard to tell as there were a lot of balls in play.  I was just watching.  I still rank myself as a pukka dictator.

[Funcrusher]

US elite is on road to full blown mental breakdown due to the crumbling edifice of the petrodollar that has kept their joke economy and its bloated war machine afloat for years.

All who stand in the way of US currency hegemony must be crushed, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, Russia, China and so on. Unfortunately for them we are seeing the limits of US power all too clearly in Syria and hopefully in Venezuela too. Russia and China are looking like they will tolerate no more Libyas. And given they have nuclear weapons they are the only countries the US really can't do much about. But the US elite sees this is a war for survival, survival of their unsustainable positions of extreme privilege in perpetuity. So they are constantly dreaming of ways to neutralise the Russian and Chinese arsenals, essentially the only thing standing in the way of their quest for full spectrum global economic dominance and the ability to milk the world dry for ever more. They dream dangerous delusional fantasies of being able to outcompete their foes in a nuclear arms race, making a first strike victory possible.

By their extreme belligerence the US elites are just forcing countries to start developing using parallel non-US controlled financial systems and probably hastening their demise.

A good summary there. Which centrist fucktards seem unable to grasp.

[Sebastian Cobb]

These days you have the added fun of sociopaths like TFM (except versions of TFM who have managed to get into positions of power) who seriously think that the exchange of small-scale nuclear warheads isn't a bad idea in the geopolitical conflicts that the dying superpowers are always getting themselves involved in. Rather than something to be avoided at all costs, they actually think nuking places is a good tactic to calm situations down and get what they perceive to be rogue states to fall in line and do what the US wants. (I'll always remember TFM advocating dropping small nuclear bombs on non-capital cities as a future war tactic, and getting confused and thinking it had happened loads in the past - rather than just in Japan at the end of World War 2. The fucking mentalist.) It's the next step along the road to our civilisation's extinction and will ensure that this Cold War is a lot more warm than the last one.

It's pretty rude to vaporise civilians and make them put up with nuclear fallout when you can disable core infrastructure with things like stuxnet. It's almost as if it's just a big willy waving contest for insecure dickheads.

[Twed]

It isn't about warfare, it's about funneling money into the pockets of weapon makers and two countries allowing each other to do that.

[greenman]

I think there has been a rather desperate attempt over the past 5 years by certain parts of the US Gov/elite to get one started again but I don't think it's coming along as they are hopeing for and then there is this (post below) which I think is an excellent summation of where those forces now stand....

Really the difference is that this time Russia itself isn't much of a threat to the west in any kind of conventional war, this time the focus is much more clearly(not that it didn't exist last time of course) on domestic control targeting political enemies as in league with Putin or US imperialism bringing states outside of US control to heel.

It does obviously have the benefit of exploiting the memory of the last cold war of course, I think you see in those Trump comments on "socialism" that this resulted in the US having quite extremist national ideology in some respects that's very easy to influence much of the population with.

[The Boston Crab]

I managed to find three trackballs at a bring and buy sale which I'm refurbishing for a Missile Command night. This Cold War shite would be a massive PR piggyback.

[ZoyzaSorris]

It isn't about warfare, it's about funneling money into the pockets of weapon makers and two countries allowing each other to do that.

There is also a fair bit of that too, I'll give you that. Of course the US spends an order of magnitude on weapons than Russia does.

[ZoyzaSorris]

That led me to have a look into the figures actually, and quite amazing that NATO countries account for 50% of world military spending whereas Russia accounts for 3.8%. Yet Russia can stop NATO from completely destroying countries like Syria because of its nuclear weapons (also a lot of the NATO countries' military spending is massive bloat and waste designed to directly funnel taxpayers money into the coffers of the super-wealthy, the Russian armed forces are forced to be far more parsimonious due to the much lower funds available).

[Gulftastic]

Look on the bright side. We could see a new 'Threads'.

I hope they bomb Hull this time.