Alien 40th Anniversary - Cinema re-release in March 2019

[Replies From View]

I consider Flipper to be part of the Avatar and Twin Peaks universe.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

"You ever hear of the Nexus Six? That was me - and five other guys."

[a duncandisorderly]

the most convincing character in any of these flicks is the "let there be light" bomb in "dark star".

[thraxx]

Just got back from seeing this.  I just wish that the first time I had seen this was in the Cinema; so much more visceral.  Sat right up against the screen and was totally immersed throughout in spite of this being about the 30th time I've seen the film.  I was disappointed that the sound volume wasn't higher, but that's the cinema's fault.  Here are some things that I noticed for the first time thanks to the big screen:

- The external space shots of the Nostromo and the graphics look absolutely terrible, like they've just been filmed off a TV screen.  Was there some issue with restoring or transferring to a later technology.  They are bollocks, like worse than 1950s b-movie.
- When the stasis pods open you can see Lambert's breasts.
- The first words in the film are from Lambert 'I am cold!'.
- In the cut I saw lacked the scene with Lambert striking Ripley.  Is that bit from a later cut?
- The cans of beer are Weyland branded beer.
- The scene with Dallas in the air ducts is tense as fuck man.
- The set for the room with Mother looks dated as fuck; ooh yes it's the nerve centre lets have a lot of flashing lights.  The rest of the set still looks amazing.
- When Ash tries to suffocate Ripley the wall behind is covered with nudy pictures.
- The padding on the walls in the living quarters of the Nostromo, the leather or vinyl padding of whatever it is is all cracked.
- Just before Ripley tries to undo the self destruct there's an external shot looking into the ship and you see a figure move across the windows internally.  Is that the Alien moving into the craft or Ripley moving around the cockpit of Nostromo?
- Sigourney Weaver is stunning in this.  I think that she might be my biggest screen crush ever, at the end when she's in her undies is ultimate botty tug territory.

[St_Eddie]

In the cut I saw lacked the scene with Lambert striking Ripley.  Is that bit from a later cut?

There's only two cuts of the film, the theatrical cut and the Director's cut (although interestingly, the Director's cut was studio enforced and is not Ridley Scott's preferred cut) but yes, that part is from the Director's cut.

Just before Ripley tries to undo the self destruct there's an external shot looking into the ship and you see a figure move across the windows internally.  Is that the Alien moving into the craft or Ripley moving around the cockpit of Nostromo?

That's Ripley.  Technically she's onboard the Narcissus shuttle at that point, not the Nostromo (although it is still docked).

[St_Eddie]

The set for the room with Mother looks dated as fuck; ooh yes it's the nerve centre lets have a lot of flashing lights.

It serves a metaphorical purpose; the MU-TH-UR room was designed to resemble a cathedral, with the lights as candles.  From this, we can infer that technology has superseded religion at this point in human history and when Dallas asks MU-TH-UR what his chances are, it's akin to him praying for an answer from God.  However, there can never be a reply because like God before, the prayers of the desperate will go unanswered.  Technology is what carried these people to LV-426 and their ultimate fate.  Yet still, they worship their destroyer, technology and look to it for an answer to their situation.  Ash is built from technology and the alien itself, it should be noted, is bio-mechanical.

[a duncandisorderly]

It serves a metaphorical purpose; the MU-TH-UR room was designed to resemble a cathedral, with the lights as candles.  From this, we can infer that technology has superseded religion at this point in human history and when Dallas asks MU-TH-UR what his chances are, it's akin to him praying for an answer from God.  However, there can never be a reply because like God before, the prayers of the desperate will go unanswered.  Technology is what carried these people to LV-426 and their ultimate fate.  Yet still, they worship their destroyer, technology and look to it for an answer to their situation.  Ash is built from technology and the alien itself, it should be noted, is bio-mechanical.

as with BR later, I think people find more in these flicks than scott put there. I've been uncharitable in the past, calling him a props guy who got lucky, but I think there has been a tendency to retroactively insert significance into his work that he didn't intend.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Sometimes a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis is just a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.

[Blumf]

- When Ash tries to suffocate Ripley the wall behind is covered with nudy pictures.

IIRC the magazine Ash is using is a porno

[St_Eddie]

as with BR later, I think people find more in these flicks than scott put there. I've been uncharitable in the past, calling him a props guy who got lucky, but I think there has been a tendency to retroactively insert significance into his work that he didn't intend.

Perhaps.  Sometimes it's possible to subconsciously layer art with metaphors though, even if the artist is unaware that's what they're doing.  That being said, the main purpose of my post was to point out the confirmed intention to have the MU-TH-UR room resemble a cathedral.

Everything that followed that point was my own analysis of what implications that design may infer.  I don't think that it's too much of a reach to say that a conscious decision to have the computer interface room resemble a cathedral, holds an idea that the characters worship technology to some extent.

[St_Eddie]

Sometimes a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis is just a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.

That speaks to my point though.  H.R. Giger's art has always conveyed a subconscious element of sexual repression.  Giger went on record to say that he used to self-censor his art, when he noticed something phallic or vaginal in one of his painting but he later learned to embrace that subconscious influence and not second guess his creations out of embarrassment.

Sometimes a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis is not just a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.  Sometimes there's significant metaphorical symbolism to the giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.

[buzby]

- The external space shots of the Nostromo and the graphics look absolutely terrible, like they've just been filmed off a TV screen.  Was there some issue with restoring or transferring to a later technology.  They are bollocks, like worse than 1950s b-movie.

Not sure what you mean by this. The miniature shots on this 720p HDTV rip of the undocking sequence look fine. They were shot on 35mm with large scale models and the minimum of background composting (most of the model effects team worked  under Derek Meddings on Space:1999) which would reduce the chances of generational loss and introduction of matte lines from optical printing process.  It won an Oscar for the visual effects.

The optical work on the opening titles and the intro card describing the Nostromo's mission have always looked a bit blown-out though.

I doubt the original compositing elements still exist or are in any condition to have that that bit re-compositied though.

- The first words in the film are from Lambert 'I am cold!'.

There's a few lines before that. The first audible words in the hubub around the mess table as the camera tracks round is Parker saying 'it's fucking terrible, man', followed by "What d'you say, have you got any biscuits on there?" to which Ripley replies 'only seen cornbread" before Lambert's line.
https://youtu.be/WUkUQcQvCus?t=25

- The cans of beer are Weyland branded beer.

Everything except the packets of cigarettes is Weylan-Yutani branded (the cigarettes are named after the actor who played the Alien)

- When Ash tries to suffocate Ripley the wall behind is covered with nudy pictures.

It's a porn magazine he uses too.

Just in reference to the earlier post about the Derelict, there is a distant and a couple of close up shots of it at each end of  the search party sequence where we see it not through the helmet cameras:

As for the links between the Alien and BR universes i'd have to say it's a no from me. It was something Scott came up with years later and tried to retcon into the Alien universe. The whole point of Tyrell's genetically-engineered replicants in Blade Runner is that they would make androids like Ash and Bishop completely obsolete and he's totally eliminated any competition. Peter Weyland would no longer be in the android business by 2019.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

That speaks to my point though.  H.R. Giger's art has always conveyed a subconscious element of sexual repression.  Giger went on record to say that he used to self-censor his art, when he noticed something phallic or vaginal in one of his painting but he later learned to embrace that subconscious influence and not second guess his creations out of embarrassment.

Sometimes a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis is not just a giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.  Sometimes there's significant metaphorical symbolism to the giant face-raping alien with a head shaped like a penis.

I was being sarcastic. I agree with you: The idea that the film isn't consciously loaded - pregnant, if you will - with symbolic imagery is almost as ridiculous as thinking Alien 3 is better than Aliens.

[a duncandisorderly]

the main purpose of my post was to point out the confirmed intention to have the MU-TH-UR room resemble a cathedral.

Everything that followed that point was my own analysis of what implications that design may infer.  I don't think that it's too much of a reach to say that a conscious decision to have the computer interface room resemble a cathedral, holds an idea that the characters worship technology to some extent.

I wasn't disagreeing, necessarily. he's good with props & sets, is scott. just... sometimes... not so good with actors & dialogue.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Alien was not one of those times.

[St_Eddie]

I was being sarcastic. I agree with you...

Ah, okay. Hard to pick up on sarcasm within the written word.  As you were.

...almost as ridiculous as thinking Alien 3 is better than Aliens.

That's a perfectly valid point of view.

In the interest of clarity; that was sarcasm.

[St_Eddie]

Alien was not one of those times.

Indeed, it was not.  Back then, Ridley Scott actually used to do multiple takes, to try and allow the actors to give their best possible performance.  These days, he's notorious for doing one or two takes and calling it a day, so that everyone can go home nice and early.  I'm not even making that up, sadly.  That's almost verbatim what he (and disgruntled actors) have said in recent years.

[Chairman Yang]

Watched this today, still excellent. In particular, you can't really appreciate the film's use of silence until you see it in a cinema. I was, in fact, so impressed by the very bad music that I looked it up and I guess Ridley Scott just chopped the score up to fuck? Which probably explains why that one 'space' cue is played about 430 times. So... maybe not Jerry Goldsmith's fault?

Also, I don't care what Scott says that bloody egg cave isn't part of that space ship.

[buzby]

Indeed, it was not.  Back then, Ridley Scott actually used to do multiple takes, to try and allow the actors to give their best possible performance.  These days, he's notorious for doing one or two takes and calling it a day, so that everyone can go home nice and early.  I'm not even making that up, sadly.  That's almost verbatim what he (and disgruntled actors) have said in recent years.

I think a lot of that is in response to what happened with the Blade Runner shoot - he didn't want to be stuck with the reputation of a troublesome director who routinely went over-schedule and over-budget. It started on Legend, where despite the soundstage fire it was brought in on time and on budget, and he completely backed down in deference to Universal over the final edit of the film and the replacement of Goldsmith's soundtrack.

I was, in fact, so impressed by the very bad music that I looked it up and I guess Ridley Scott just chopped the score up to fuck? Which probably explains why that one 'space' cue is played about 430 times. So... maybe not Jerry Goldsmith's fault?

Scott and Terry Rawlings mostly preferred the music from the temp score they had assembled to edit the film over the actual score Goldsmith produced.
https://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-great-unknown-the-story-behind-jerry-goldsmiths-score-for-alien
It happened to him again when Scott let Universal rescore Legend.

Also, I don't care what Scott says that bloody egg cave isn't part of that space ship.

In the original pre-production work on the script and design with O'Bannon, Shusett and concept artist Ron Cobb, the Snark crew (before it was renamed Nostromo) were originally supposed to find the Derelict (which was supposed to be a research/exploration vessel, rather than a bio-warfare bomber it was retconned into by Scott) with the dead Space Jockey, and then an indigenous alien pyramid structure that contained the spore of the organism that killed it.


The pyramid idea was changed to a honeycomb or hive egg silo later on (Giger felt a pyramid was to culturally familiar, and the producers Hill and GIler never liked it as it was "too much Von Daniken crap").  The Derelict and Pyramid/silo scenes got merged in the later versions of the script due to lack of budget (the Space Jockey's cockpit chamber set was redressed to be the hold containing the egg  chamber to save money). Scott would then later reuse the cut concepts and imagery in Prometheus and Covenant.

[Shit Good Nose]

as with BR later, I think people find more in these flicks than scott put there. I've been uncharitable in the past, calling him a props guy who got lucky, but I think there has been a tendency to retroactively insert significance into his work that he didn't intend.

No, Scott put an awful lot of thought into both films, way beyond just the look and design of them.  There are numerous interviews with him from the more serious film journals of the day that were done preceding and during the making of both and he talked about the great lengths he went to to use imagery, metaphor and subtle sub-text and, with Blade Runner in particular, he was very heavily involved in the script and the story.  One read of Paul M. Sammon's Future Noir, let alone the technical books written contemporarily, will confirm all of that.

I think the problem has long been much the opposite - that most people (and critics) tended to think that just because he started as a props guy he therefore couldn't have the intellectual stones to do anything more than make a film that looked nice, but if you listen to any of his commentaries it's obvious that he's working on an intellectual level as well.

[grassbath]

Saw this the other day, first time since I was about 12 (and got pleasantly midweek-smashed on free Negronis, cos Everyman have partnered up with Campari, which almost took the sting out of the ticket price).

I know it's the oldest, most facile bit of film-academic observation in the book to say 'Alien is a film about rape'... but it really is, isn't it? With that reading, you can justify basically every creative choice in the film. It's a very fully realised text. One thing I'd not picked up on before is the masterful use of internal tension and dissatisfaction between the Nostromo crew. With only a minimal amount really being said, you get a real sense of the history between these people, the power dynamic and how that informs their choices and motivations throughout the script. Money has become a big factor. Lambert is depressed (and has been involved romantically/sexually with Dallas)?  Nobody listens to the women, the ultimate cause of their downfall - in some way the blokes are genetically complicit in the evils of both the Alien and the Company.

[thraxx]

Yes, they really manage to convey the tension and relationships between the crew with a minimum of words and time. Good acting, scripting and editing I guess.  They managed the trick with Aliens too.

I love the bit where Ripley comes down to check on Parker and Brett's work, and the instant she leaves they just turn off all the steam pipes. Good call on the treatment of women, those two are right cunts to ripley in that scene. Lambert speak the most sense in the film: how many times does she suggest 'let's get out of here', or words to that effect.

There's also a bit when Dallas and Ripley are talking and Dallas discloses that Ash was attached to the crew instead of the regular science office days before they launched. Does this mean that the company knew right from the off that they would be stopping off at the planet?

And oh yeah, is it known that alien life has already been discovered in the Alien universe? They don't seem that awed by what they discover, though the script doesn't confirm that alien life is unknown, it does lean that way. At several points with some lines by Ash and Dallas - 'we've never encountered this species before' etc...

[St_Eddie]

Lambert is depressed (and has been involved romantically/sexually with Dallas)?

I've never read Lambert as being depressed.  After all, she's actually rather chipper, prior to things taking a turn towards the ugly ("I like griping").  It's only once things go to pot that Lambert becomes a nervous wreck.  That was her role in the film; a proxy for the audience's own feelings as they watch the film; their anxiety personified; the one character who's saying what audience are forever screaming at the theatre screen during horror flicks - "GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!" (Lambert: "I say we just get in the shuttle and take our chances").  If anything, I'd say that it's Dallas who comes across as being a depressive person, even before the crew's lives are put in jeopardy.

...(and has been involved romantically/sexually with Dallas)?

As mentioned earlier in this tread, Ripley and Dallas were a couple in the original script and there are remnants of that connection still onscreen in the final film.  I don't think that any connection between Dallas and Lambert is ever implied specifically.  However, it's worth noting that Ridley Scott postulated that he figured that in the future, when Alien takes place, sexual relations onboard years long space missions, such as that of the Nostromo, would be considered as common place and casual; a healthy necessity to relieve stress among the crew.  There are hints of that in the film (Parker to Lambert: "I'd rather be eating something else!")

Nobody listens to the women, the ultimate cause of their downfall - in some way the blokes are genetically complicit in the evils of both the Alien and the Company.

I don't agree with this, at least not in terms of the filmmakers intent.  You have to remember that the script for Alien was written as gender neutral.  It was only with casting that the genders of the characters were set in stone.  That goes for Ripley too, which is a huge reason as to why that character remains such a shining example of a strong female protagonist; because it wasn't written with a woman in mind.  It was written with a human being in mind.

It's the opposite to what goes on with characters such as Rey in the new Star Wars movies; where her character is being written by someone very keen to empower women and so you end up with someone who's brilliant at everything and therefore, a completely unengaging and entirely uninteresting character.  Compelling characters are human, regardless of gender, not a means to push forth a political ideology.  It's generally not a good idea to write for a character with their gender in mind because people, be there male or female, don't go through life thinking 'I'm a man' or 'I'm a woman'.  They're simply human beings and should be written as such.

Anyway, I digress.  To get back to Alien; I've always considered that universe to be similar to Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers, in terms of gender roles, which is to say that in the future the gender divide is more or less nonexistent and both genders are true equals.  Be it the characters showering and fighting alongside each other in Starship Troopers, or Ripley being able to stand her own against the hulk of a man that is Parker in Alien (or indeed Vasquez and Ferro kicking arse and taking names in Aliens alongside their male counterparts).  All things considered, a rather utopian vision in otherwise dystopian universes, it must be said.

[Endicott]

There's also a bit when Dallas and Ripley are talking and Dallas discloses that Ash was attached to the crew instead of the regular science office days before they launched. Does this mean that the company knew right from the off that they would be stopping off at the planet?

Hell yes. If I remember correctly Ripley eventually unlocks the info from the central computer (which they call mother), just before Ash tries to kill her.

[Replies From View]

Is there still expected to be a sequel to Alien Covenant, or has that project been binned now?

[grassbath]

I've never read Lambert as being depressed.  After all, she's actually rather chipper, prior to things taking a turn towards the ugly ("I like griping").  It's only once things go to pot that Lambert becomes a nervous wreck.  That was her role in the film; a proxy for the audience's own feelings as they watch the film; their anxiety personified; the one character who's saying what audiences are always scream at the theatre screen during horror flicks - "GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE!" (Lambert: "I say we just get in the shuttle and take our chances").  If anything, I'd say that it's Dallas who comes across as being a depressive person, even before the crew's lives are put in jeopardy.

Yeah, I would agree with Lambert transforming into a proxy for audience anxiety. I was struck, though, by a lingering close shot early on (IIRC before any serious shit starts kicking off) of her smoking a cigarette and watching Kane and Dallas with an utterly blank, listless, depressed look.

I don't agree with this, at least not in terms of the filmmakers intent.  You have to remember that the script for Alien was written as gender neutral.  It was only with casting that the genders of the characters were set in stone.  That goes for Ripley too, which is a huge reason as to why that character remains such a shining example of a strong female protagonist; because it wasn't written with a woman in mind.  It was written with a human being in mind.

How interesting - I didn't know that about the originally gender neutral script. I still think a feminist reading of that kind is legitimate, though - as you observed, not in light of the filmmakers intent, but in terms of how present it is regardless in the final text. It's really interesting that, even with the characters being written originally with no gender specifically in mind, Alien still became a film about an 'unstoppable force,' aggressive and invasive in a hyper-sexual way, which the overwhelmingly male crew and the industrial-corporate 'Company' make way for, and the lone female protagonist - despite her 'feminine' vulnerabilities - resists and must eventually outwit and destroy. Just a great example of how salient meaning can develop without conscious intent.

It's the opposite to what goes on with characters such as Rey in the new Star Wars movies; where her character is being written by someone very keen to empower women and so you end up with someone who's brilliant at everything and therefore, a completely unengaging and entirely uninteresting character.  Compelling characters are human, regardless of gender, not a means to push forth a political ideology.

I quite agree! Just to make it known, I'm not trying to push some political/ideological 'woke' message, and I fucking hate the modern need to find some sort of moralistic identity-politics dimension in every piece of art (or at least reduce every piece of art to that reading alone). I just think it's hard not to see gendered divisions and gendered motives in Alien, and I think the film is richer for them.

[Endicott]

Here you go - Ship diverted - crew expendable.

[thraxx]

Here you go - Ship diverted - crew expendable.

Sure, but I always assumed that order 937 had been transmitted to nostromo during their mission, a mission which takes years. After all they so that they are still 10 months from home (or the outer rim?) when working out where they are in space.

The conversation between Dallas and Ripley, which I only noticed for the first time in the cinema, suggests that Ash was planted even before the mission took place. That the company planned it all along.

Somehow I like the idea that the company learned about the signal while they were away, transmits the order and information. It could have been any ship, it was just that nostrolo was unluck enough to be closest.

I forgot to say as well, I hate the nostromo explosion effects at the end. Like some sub 2001 homage. Had all the money already been spent?

Also I love the font and clarity of the mother screen compared to the standard ship screens. How did they do it?

[St_Eddie]

Yeah, I would agree with Lambert transforming into a proxy for audience anxiety. I was struck, though, by a lingering close shot early on (IIRC before any serious shit starts kicking off) of her smoking a cigarette and watching Kane and Dallas with an utterly blank, listless, depressed look.

I know the look to which you refer but again, that's likely there as a proxy for the audience; she's the one character who, like the audience, knows that some serious shit is about to go down.  It's a visual representation of the audience's sense of foreboding.  In fact, Veronica Cartwright stated as much on the DVD/Blu-Ray documentary, in relation to that specific shot.

I still think a feminist reading of that kind is legitimate, though - as you observed, not in light of the filmmakers intent, but in terms of how present it is regardless in the final text...

...Just a great example of how salient meaning can develop without conscious intent.

I might not share your personal take but I 100% support individual interpretation of art.  If it enhances your own personal viewing experience, then it's all good, as far as I'm concerned.  Just as long as people don't start insisting that their own interpretation was the filmmaker's intent, without a source or evidence to back it up.  I'm not even remotely implying that's what you were doing that, because I know that you weren't.  I'm just acknowledging the importance of distinguishing between one's own personal interpretation and the artist's intent.  Neither is more valid than the other, intrinsically but it's good to draw a line between the two, I feel.  Sorry, I'm waffling on...

[ToneLa]

I might not share your personal take but I 100% support individual interpretation of art.  If it enhances your own personal viewing experience, then it's all good, as far as I'm concerned.  Just as long as people don't start insisting that their own interpretation was the filmmaker's intent, without a source or evidence to back it up.

In my experience people don't want to stop at "that's just my take", they end up going against the creator's wishes :(