Author Topic: Patreon eats itself  (Read 1432 times)

Patreon eats itself
« on: February 11, 2019, 03:20:34 PM »
Patreon looks like it's about to go weird.

They've recently been delaying paying users their money. To solve this unspecified technical glitch, they "built an alternate solution where we'll extend a Payout Advance on your funds for creators who need it". Ok...

They've also been saying things in the media like "Patreon is not sustainable". Specifically, they reckon that Patreon's "generous business model" is unsustainable. Isn't that a weird thing to say? How is Patreon generous? Perhaps they mean that, after getting a lot of venture capital investment over the last few years, they haven't been able to make a return on that, and are thus currently shitting themselves.

Quote
The company does not currently provide contracts, which allows users to retain 100 percent ownership of their work and full control of their brand.

"Nice place you've got here, it'd be a shame if someone were to smash it all up"

Twed

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 03:28:44 PM »
What is Patreon's business model? A 5% cut to be a payment processor? I'm pretty sure Paypal takes less than that for the most part and that begat Elon Musk.

gmoney

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 03:30:00 PM »
Some friends of mine in a band who used the platform PledgeMusic to flog their new album have had to stop taking orders from there because they were no longer being forwarded their money, with no definite sight of when they would get it. It's not as widely used as Patreon, but interesting that a similar platform is also struggling at the same time.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 03:46:04 PM »
What is Patreon's business model? A 5% cut to be a payment processor? I'm pretty sure Paypal takes less than that for the most part and that begat Elon Musk.

As far as I can see, they're more a payment processor processor. They act as a middle man between payment processors (Paypal and Stripe) and their users (content creators and their supporters). God knows why they think they need 300+ employees to do this.

ziggy starbucks

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 03:56:13 PM »
I think they get 15%

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 04:21:28 PM »
Is this what will happen to Netflix?

I don't see how it is unsustainable though, as long as they always take a cut. Surely all they do is just provide the domain and a bit of admin?

But yeah, i'm all for creating jobs but 300 employees seems mental.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 04:35:38 PM »
Netflix is massively in debt but a lot of it is tied up in content.

Unlike Patreon though they are worth something in terms of infrastructure, I think they have their own cdn's behind isp's rather than using things like Akamai. They're also held up as a good example of resilient infrastructure. I was at an AWS summit where someone gave a talk about how they deliberately fail entire (aws) regions to see how their system copes.

The interesting thing that's going to happen at the fringes of Patreon is when alt-right folk get booted off it and set up their own one (hasn't Jordan Peterson tried to do this?), at some point they'll be forced to moderate or embrace the inevitable full-on fascism that crops up.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 04:45:07 PM »
I think they get 15%

According to their website, they charge 5% for themselves, then 5% for processing payments. On top of that, if you want to take your money out of patreon and put it in your bank, you also have to pay a fee.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 04:55:28 PM »
The interesting thing that's going to happen at the fringes of Patreon is when alt-right folk get booted off it and set up their own one (hasn't Jordan Peterson tried to do this?), at some point they'll be forced to moderate or embrace the inevitable full-on fascism that crops up.

Yeah, Peterson left voluntarily, citing free speech problems, and is in the process of starting his own alternative (who know if that will ever see the light of day). Sargon got kicked off for using the n-word on a stream, refused to apologise, then left to SubscribeStar.

The big competitor will probably be run by Kickstarter. First it was called Drip, but now they're working with XOXO to do something else. Kickstarter have quite a good reputation for being responsive to their users (which Patreon absolutely does not) so if Kickstarter can pull it off then I suspect many will leave Patreon to go there.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 05:07:13 PM »
Oh and Patreon CEO Jack Conte posted a helpful graph which I'm sure Zetetic will be very satisfied with:


MojoJojo

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 05:30:15 PM »
Netflix is massively in debt but a lot of it is tied up in content.

Unlike Patreon though they are worth something in terms of infrastructure, I think they have their own cdn's behind isp's rather than using things like Akamai. They're also held up as a good example of resilient infrastructure. I was at an AWS summit where someone gave a talk about how they deliberately fail entire (aws) regions to see how their system copes.

I don't think they own much infrastructure. I think they switched to AWS and ISPs own the cdn kit. They do also make a profit, it's just they're massively investing in content so their cash flow is negative.

I really don't see how patreon can't be making money - what are their costs?

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 05:38:52 PM »
I don't think they own much infrastructure. I think they switched to AWS and ISPs own the cdn kit. They do also make a profit, it's just they're massively investing in content so their cash flow is negative.

I really don't see how patreon can't be making money - what are their costs?

The problem for Patreon isn't that they aren't making money but that they aren't growing. A sustainable, stable business is no good for their investors.

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 05:54:46 PM »
Right, it seems that they are expanding as a company (more employees etc.) without understanding that their profits are directly proportional to the number of users of the service, which won't grow indefinitely. Silly sods.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 06:50:14 PM »
What is it with CEO dudes named Jack doing all they can to spoil the successful internet platforms they run?

Theremin

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 10:27:25 PM »
Patreon’s CEO is the bloke from Pomplamoose?

Hasn’t he done enough damage already?

Captain Z

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2019, 10:33:33 PM »
Imagine if On Cinema didn't receive the funding for the upcoming Oscar Special and the next series is actual court footage of Tim Heidecker playing the character of Tim Heidecker suing Patreon for real.

PlanktonSideburns

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 10:49:42 PM »
The real tragedy is that this thread could have been called

Patreon Goes Splatreon

biggytitbo

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2019, 10:58:02 PM »
The problem with a lot of these services that grow very big very quickly without a sustainable business model is once they transition to something where they can actually be profitable long term they are no longer the thing people actually liked in the first place, and thus they go right down the shitter very quickly.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 11:06:17 PM »
I'm still owed about $700 from Patreon, despite having quit over three months ago.  They deliberately make it complicated to claim your money and jump through all kinds of hoops to avoid paying out, and then make you do the same to get what's owed to you.  My payouts have been put "under review" on three different occasions, despite it being the same 15 or so recurring pledges.  So the money leaves my patron's account and then Patreon just hangs onto it - really not useful when that money is supposed to go directly into funding a monthly output.

I quit and just set up a recurring PayPal payment system.  Patreon is an absolute toilet company.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 11:10:45 PM »
The real tragedy is that this thread could have been called

Patreon Goes Splatreon

I'm sorry

Uncle TechTip

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 11:20:43 PM »
So it sounds like they've been spending your money instead of putting 90% of your money into trusted accounts and passing it on to the creators. It's like one of those poker sites where they hoped sunnier days would come before everyone wanted their money back.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 11:23:02 PM »
[tag]what's my money doing in your video fred?[/tag]

Neomod

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 11:37:14 PM »

BlodwynPig

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Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 12:48:24 AM »
Looks like uk's Pledge Music is also fucked.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/02/07/pledgemusic-active-campaigns-contributions-suspended/

Yeh, a few days now. Asked if I was going to get my merchandise but apparently they're swamped with thousands of similar mails.

Re: Patreon eats itself
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2019, 02:30:02 PM »
One of the major investors in Patreon is Thrive Capital, which is Joshua Kushner, Jared's brother. Makes the whole ultrawoke posturing of Conte ring pretty hollow.