Ant and Dec cancelled [split topic]

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yes, I too would back down after getting into this mess.

Apology accepted!

[Twed]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/30/dear-white-people-this-is-why-halloween-blackface-is-racist-and-offensive-8086919/

What's even more astonishing is that people genuinely still believe it's up for debate. Let me rephrase, some white people still believe that what's considered 'racist' is up for debate.

And she hasn't even read this thread.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah people that do that for Halloween blatantly are just dressing as caricatures and it's patently obvious even the ones dressing as a specific person are just using it as a loophole to resemble a golliwog.

Saw a horrific group of legend Gary's doing it as the lads from cool runnings,they obviously looked nothing like them.

[jamiefairlie]

Ok I'll ask again, where do you draw the line with an impersonation? Is imitating voice ok? Hairstyle, clothing? Or is not ok for anyone of one race to impersonate another at all?

Don't get me wrong, blackfacing is shit for cunts, just interested in where the line stops?

[Twed]

Ok I'll ask again, where do you draw the line with an impersonation? Is imitating voice ok? Hairstyle, clothing? Or is not ok for anyone of one race to impersonate another at all?

Don't get me wrong, blackfacing is shit for cunts, just interested in where the line stops?

I just don't think it works that way. You don't draw a line and he derive the rules from that. People being made to feel hurt and oppressed is the thing to react to.

Yes, somebody could also say "funny glasses in costumes is very upsetting for me as a glasses-wearer", but I think we all have the common sense to see the difference in scale and historic significance there.

[Kelvin]

There doesn't need to be. It's pretty easy to tell when something is massively upsetting to a huge part of society, so maybe it's time to move on from those jokes. Blackface isn't a way of life for anybody, there aren't black and white minstrels anymore. It's easy for absolutely everybody to give up blackface.

Well of course I'm not defending black and white minstrel shows! We're talking about very, very specific situations and contexts here. 

However, I'm not comfortable taking the position of defending blackface in any circumstances and context, regardless of my conflicted opinions about it maybe, possibly being defensible those very, very specific situations. I could continue this debate, but frankly, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on tonight. Especially when I honestly don't have a clear opinion on it myself.  I really, really want to make it absolutely clear, though, that I was only "defending" the right to perform as another race in an exceptionally small and specific number of situations, and even then, with the caveat that I was very conflicted about it.

[rectorofstiffkey]

How times have changed.  I remember owning a Topsy and Tim book in the seventies in which they decide to go to a fancy dress party as 'gypsies' and their mum blacks their faces up with cocoa powder.

It seemed so unlikely that I'd started to think it was a strange false memory or a dream I'd had, but a quick Google says it wasn't.  In the picture below, we see them after they have licked the cocoa from around their mouths during their Seventies party tea (coconut pyramids and jelly rabbit, natch).  Not quite sure how this was ever OK.

[jamiefairlie]

I just don't think it works that way. You don't draw a line and he derive the rules from that. People being made to feel hurt and oppressed is the thing to react to.

Yes, somebody could also say "funny glasses in costumes is very upsetting for me as a glasses-wearer", but I think we all have the common sense to see the difference in scale and historic significance there.

Yeah I know and in this case I agree but it opens the door to a society when every fucker who's hurt by anything gets to shut it down. There has to be agreed norms where these things are acceptable and these other things are beyond the pale. Otherwise you get everyone walking around on eggshells, terrified they're going to upset somebody. You can see this trend in society already.

[Twed]

Yeah I know and in this case I agree but it opens the door to a society when every fucker who's hurt by anything gets to shut it down.

It doesn't, because as a whole people are able to tell the difference between things that matter and things that are ridiculous when it comes to social issues. I'd worry more about what the mass media wants to use its power to shut down (CORBYN)

[jamiefairlie]

It doesn't, because as a whole people are able to tell the difference between things that matter and things that are ridiculous when it comes to social issues. I'd worry more about what the mass media wants to use its power to shut down (CORBYN)

Yeah I'm not so sure now but we'll see how it develops over the next few years.

[BritishHobo]

I always love the story Ed Gamble told on the Peacock and Gamble podcast about the mate of his who went as Catwoman on a night out abroad - covers himself in black, wears cat ears, black shorts and a tail. Loses the ears and the tail over the course of the night, and ends up telling Ed he wants to go home because, he's not having a good time anymore, he can't work out why, but 'people are just being quite mean'.

[Avril Lavigne]

I still have a photo of my brother going to a school fancy dress party as MC Hammer in the '90s with shoe polish on his face so it's nice to know I have a Cancellation card up my sleeve in case he shirks lending me money for a taxi.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I still have a photo of my brother going to a school fancy dress party as MC Hammer in the '90s with shoe polish on his face so it's nice to know I have a Cancellation card up my sleeve in case he shirks lending me money for a taxi.

Death Row Records hammer or 'hammerman cartoon' mc hammer?

[The Lurker]

yes, but that was based on a real incident that happened. In the All Priests Show IIRC ,and in show it was supposed to be ridiculous and offensive.

Back down to a double cancelling.

[Avril Lavigne]

Death Row Records hammer or 'hammerman cartoon' mc hammer?

On investigation, it appears neither version wore a green shellsuit so I can't be entirely sure.

[Brundle-Fly]

Retro clickbait horseshit.  Two more from them later.

[Pseudopath]

Death Row Records hammer

Christ...I never realised. You've got to pray just to make it today.

[Konki]

#CANCELLED?

[Satchmo Distel]

I think white impressionists, regardless of good intentions, should avoid impersonating black personalities simply because of the historical power imbalance of black and white and how it will be seen as an invitation to laugh at blackness. It would be nice to live in a society where such impressions could be done without sending out that message but it is simply not possible while our culture remains built on a privileged white perspective.

EDIT: But I oppose retrospective 'cancelling'

[Mister Six]

I think white impressionists, regardless of good intentions, should avoid impersonating black personalities simply because of the historical power imbalance of black and white and how it will be seen as an invitation to laugh at blackness. It would be nice to live in a society where such impressions could be done without sending out that message but it is simply not possible while our culture remains built on a privileged white perspective.

EDIT: But I oppose retrospective 'cancelling'

Even if they're not blacking up?

And what is "blackness"? Is it a universal constant? What would link impressions of Nelson Mandela, Trevor McDonald and Kanye West?

[PaulTMA]

Two of my oldest school friends dressed up as Milli Vanilli for Halloween in 2002, when they were at uni.  They actually went out in public dressed like that.  For a start, it's amazing that it occurred to anyone on the entire planet to dress up as Milli Vanilli at that particular point in time, such was their staggering lack of relevance in that era, never mind the fact it was necessary for them to black up as a vital part of the process.

I have to admit that it annoyed me greatly, though only because they'd made jackets with 'Milli' and 'Vanilli' lettered on the back of each, when obviously their names were Rob and Fab.  Fucking morons.

[St_Eddie]

I once dressed up as Papa Lazarou for Halloween.  This would have been back around 15 or so years ago.  I did it out of my love for The League of Gentlemen but in hindsight, I do sometimes wonder how other people may have perceived my choice of costume, should they not be familiar with the show.

And what is "blackness"? Is it a universal constant? What would link impressions of Nelson Mandela, Trevor McDonald and Kanye West?

Shoe polish?

[mothman]

I once inadvertently blacked up by going as a Klingon to a fancy dresss party. I console myself that there is nothing inherently bad about that - the aliens' brownish skin has been adopted by such acting luminaries as Christopher Plummer, and nobody's talking about (ugh) cancelling him, not now he's the Official Kevin Spacey Replacer. But I was officially going as Worf, who is indeed played by a black actor...

[rectorofstiffkey]

Two of my oldest school friends dressed up as Milli Vanilli for Halloween in 2002, when they were at uni.  They actually went out in public dressed like that.  For a start, it's amazing that it occurred to anyone on the entire planet to dress up as Milli Vanilli at that particular point in time, such was their staggering lack of relevance in that era, never mind the fact it was necessary for them to black up as a vital part of the process.

Was that after one of Milli Vanilli had killed themselves?  I'm not sure which of the layers of tastelessness involved there is the worst one....

[St_Eddie]

I once inadvertently blacked up by going as a Klingon to a fancy dresss party. I console myself that there is nothing inherently bad about that - the aliens' brownish skin has been adopted by such acting luminaries as Christopher Plummer, and nobody's talking about (ugh) cancelling him, not now he's the Official Kevin Spacey Replacer. But I was officially going as Worf, who is indeed played by a black actor...

Considering that you were simultaneously a white and a black man, then you may have well as gone as one of these fellows...

[touchingcloth]

[kalowski]

See, this works me, just like the Gene Wilder blackface in Silver Streak. Funny by the ridiculous nature of it. I guess if Pryor and Murphy thought it funny enough then I do too.

[H-O-W-L]

Chris Morris as Sukie Bapswent: Double cancelled

I'd lock triangles with Sukie Bapswent, I won't lie. Morris with the NTSC fuzz and femme makeup on makes for a pretty decent Nineties Crush look.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I'd lock triangles with Sukie Bapswent, I won't lie. Morris with the NTSC fuzz and femme makeup on makes for a pretty decent Nineties Crush look.

Suksie Bapswent is a man, I'm afraid.

[H-O-W-L]

Suksie Bapswent is a man, I'm afraid.

By 'eck.