What do you think should happen to Shamima Begum and her kid?

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

true.

[mugwump ji sum]

Shamima Begum's Brexit fatigue:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shamima-begum-brexit-isis-syria-interview-islamic-state-a8850561.html%3famp

Shamima Begum's claddagh ring:
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/02/20/news/islamic-state-bride-shamima-begum-wears-claddagh-ring-in-tv-interview-1556395

[imitationleather]

I'm getting the impression that journalists now just go and ask her to give her opinion on political matters that have little relevance to her so she can be a kind of shock jock pundit to piss their readers off and get page views.

[Shit Good Nose]

I'm getting the impression that journalists now just go and ask her to give her opinion on political matters that have little relevance to her so she can be a kind of shock jock pundit to piss their readers off and get page views.

"We ask Shamima Begum her opinion of the new Dr Who"
"Shamima Begum reviews the latest Peugeot 3008 SUV"
"Shamima Begum lists her top five of the year in tonight's Book Review"
"Today on Loose Women we welcome Shamima Begum live by satellite, where we'll be asking her whether she thinks sanitary products should be made free to everyone"
"Tonight on Food Network - the new series of Man Vs. Food, with new host Shamima Begum"
"Shamima Begum tests out the new Dyson cordless vac, exclusively for Which"

"...and other tastes of Western freedom and democracy we wave in her face to taunt her"

[Flouncer]

If she's lucky she might get a column in the Daily Star - she could be a sort of jihadi version of Dear Deidre.

Q. Dear Shamima, my son is being bullied at school. What should I do?

A. As a character building exercise, give him forty lashes and force him to behead an infidel. This will instill a new sense of confidence in him and he will soon be drinking the blood of his enemies. Hope this helps! xxx

[maett]

I know she's a good muslim lass and therefore not a fan of a flutter but has she a tip for the National?

[Flouncer]

I know she's a good muslim lass and therefore not a fan of a flutter but has she a tip for the National?

Shamima says, blow yourself up in the stand nearest the royal box for maximum casualties and media coverage. For extra carnage set up secondary devices to target good samaritans and first responders. Hope this helps! xxx

[holyzombiejesus]

Shamima Begum's Brexit fatigue:


Shamima Begum's claddagh ring:

The Day Today horse names

[Pancake]

Let her come home, as is her right, and stand trial if she's done any crimes.

NEXT.

[Ferris]

Let her come home, as is her right, and stand trial if she's done any crimes.

NEXT.

I think that was the majority position on here - problem is, she is no longer a British citizen so it isn't her right to enter Britain. She can appeal to have her citizenship reinstated, but I'm not really sure on what grounds - she's a de facto Bangladeshi citizen and never revoked it, so she isn't stateless. It was a callous and calculated move by Javid and the Home Office to revoke her nationality, but it was (probably) legal under UK and international law.

She also traveled on a stolen passport which she destroyed, so it'll be difficult for her to travel via normal channels, and there is essentially no consular presence from any country in Syria to assist.

The whole thing is a mess, which I assume is why (short of any updates) people aren't really posting in here. There's not much more to be said.

[Zetetic]

she's a de facto Bangladeshi citizen

De facto, she's clearly not.

You can't get a much better de facto test of citizenship than the government of the relevant state saying "You don't have citizenship and you can't enter this country".

[Zetetic]

De jure remains quite unclear.

We've had cases that have concluded that because someone reached 21 without having renounced British citizenship then they couldn't have Bangladeshi citizenship - but that doesn't imply that we're certain they had citizenship before then.

It certainly doesn't demand that the Bangladeshi courts would take the same view.

[Ferris]

De facto, she's clearly not.

You can't get a much better de facto test of citizenship than the government of the relevant state saying "You don't have citizenship and you can't enter this country".

You don't apply for a second citizenship at birth any more than you apply for a first.

Bangladesh's argument is that she has never been to the country or applied for a passport, though they admit she has 2 Bangladeshi citizens as parents. By their law, that would make her a citizen by descent at birth, unless she revoked it. I think they are trying to avoid taking responsibility for her by putting out statements, but that isn't how the law works.

My son has never been to Britain or applied for a British passport, but it doesn't alter the fact that he's a de facto British citizen by birth.

[Zetetic]

Are you sure you know what 'de facto' and 'de jure' mean? Edit: This question sounds considerably more cunty than it's meant to. Apologies.

Your son is a de jure citizen by birth - we can establish that by looking at the laws and the precedent set by how they're intepreted.

He's a de facto British citizen - we imagine anyway, because he can come here, exercise right of residency and so on without the government intervening and deporting him.



Shamima is, trivially, de facto not a Bangladeshi citizen. The de facto test of citizenship is whether someone is actually allowed to exercise the rights of citizenship by the government in question. If they say that you're not a citizen and that they'll kill or deport if you try to act as if you are then - in reality, in practice, de facto - you're not a citizen.

You can argue with them. You can say that the law says that you have citizenship and that - de jure, according to the law - you are a citizen. They can then take this to the courts and, eventually, establish as much as one ever can, whether you really are - de jure - a citizen.

You might read Bangladeshi law as indicating that Shamima must have citizenship. Alas, since your are not the supreme legal authority in Bangladesh, we cannot take your view as definite on this matter. (I don't believe that British courts have actually taken a view on this either - for what their opinion is worth - because they haven't had to in light of other parts of the relevant law.)

[Ferris]

ok then

[Zetetic]

The reason why this exercises me is this:

I think they are trying to avoid taking responsibility for her by putting out statements, but that isn't how the law works.

It seems to be how it's working for the Bangladeshi government right now.

In practice (de facto, if you like), that means we've deprived Shamima of her sole citizenship. Yes, that's only because of the view advanced by the Bangladeshi government, but it's the case the nevertheless.

Which is a bit shit of us, ultimately, even if it's also shit of Bangladesh. I care more about the former because ... it's my government, acting on my behalf.

[Ferris]

I think you are wrong, but ok. We don't have to agree.

(Though it is definitely a shit move by the UK gov).

[Zetetic]

Wrong about that we are - in practice - depriving her of her sole citizenship?

My view only rests on the fact that there isn't any other citizenship she's being allowed to exercise - how ever hard one disbelieves the Bangladeshi government's position.

[Ferris]

Wrong about that we are - in practice - depriving her of her sole citizenship?

Yes

[Cuellar]

I think, right...