Bill Hicks reassessed by young comedians [split topic]

[Chollis]

What Rolf Lundgren said


also, do Avalon own all comedians or what

[MortSahlFan]

Bill Hicks was great.. But man, they love to make money talking about him, with their retroactive (and new) morals with their stockbroker mentality.

I read a few lines, and it was written by a retard. "Kicking down Iraqis? --- he was the only one with the clear voice denouncing the FIRST Iraq war... Fuck these right-winged bitches, elephants posing with their jackass clothing.

[jobotic]

Retard. Stockbroker mentality. Man, you're like a new Hicks yourself.

[thecuriousorange]

Has Jonathan Pie been cancelled yet? Some of his jibes at Theresa May veer into sexist insults and his attempt at addressing metoo was pretty clumsy.

[biggytitbo]

Bill Hicks died a quarter of a century ago and came from a different world and tradition so I'm not sure what point there is judging him by today's ultra woke standards. Plus he never claimed to be anything other than a deeply flawed and troubled man anyway.

[up_the_hampipe]

"Go see fucking Madonna, you fucking idiot piece of shit!" is the funniest thing he ever said/yelled.

[Brundle-Fly]

brunds, would genuinely like to know what routines tickled you most. I find it hard to divorce my favourites from not-quite-comedy rants, though as a foley artist, wow, he showed some fuckin craft there. I'm in awe more than I giggle... and he might have hated me for that! :/

It was his supreme craft more than the material that made me laugh. That pout, the voices, the sfx, the attitude.

[lankyguy95]

"Go see fucking Madonna, you fucking idiot piece of shit!" is the funniest thing he ever said/yelled.

And the prance across the stage during that is the funniest thing he ever did.

[QDRPHNC]

In 25 years it'll be their turn to have their beliefs and behaviours scrutinized by whoever comes next.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I have never understood the appeal as someone to watch now, though I vaguely understand the appeal as it was at the time.

There's a sociopathic distance between himself and the subject matter/audience, and it's too acutely obvious he's using standup to excise stuff. Excising stuff is fine but there's a mastery to do that while having the audience in the palm of your hand, Hicks never did.

His delivery was, in my view, charmless, like a cross between a boy trying to get attention and a blowhard bellowing in a pub. But it's the coldness in his treatment of subjects that stands out. It's his absence of dealing in a humourous way with his condition (from what I remember) that sticks in my mind. There's a monotony in the uber-try hard, cold anger. Other standups with offensive material lay the groundwork, Sadowitz by playing up to his misanthropy and in doing so giving a glimmer of humanity, Stanhope by making the desolate almost Dali-like surreal and vivid, but when you watch him, Hicks has the cold stare and coke shivers of a sociopath who has placed attention above entertainment.

Lots of people saying "liked him but never laughed" - surely then you were following him like a preacher, rather than as a comedian. The anti-establishment sort of thing 18 year old boys in the 90s would have their minds blown by (lots of taboo busting + basic anti-corporate anti-government stuff), then when you look back, ahh really, that's all fine, but I wouldn't sit in a room and watch his shows given the option, which about says it all for how charming I find it.

[St_Eddie]

Lots of people saying "liked him but never laughed" - surely then you were following him like a preacher, rather than as a comedian. The anti-establishment sort of thing 18 year old boys in the 90s would have their minds blown by...

Yeah, pretty much.  His shtick greatly appealed to my militant 18 year old sensibilities and I'm fine with that.

[Brundle-Fly]

I have never understood the appeal as someone to watch now, though I vaguely understand the appeal as it was at the time.

There's a sociopathic distance between himself and the subject matter/audience, and it's too acutely obvious he's using standup to excise stuff. Excising stuff is fine but there's a mastery to do that while having the audience in the palm of your hand, Hicks never did.

With the greatest respect, Shoulders, but that is bollocks.

[Beagle 2]

Once I'd got over the thrill of discovering him by staying up late to secretly watch channel 4 as a teenager, I did have some issues with his material. I guess I just found some of it trite and unpleasant. But at his best, come on, there's clearly plenty to enjoy. Reading this made me think he must be better than I'd given him credit for. Okay, it's selectively chosen quotes by The Guardian to make middle aged people share it in outrage, but nobody comes out of that article well. He was taking the piss out of Iraqis was he? Fuck's sake.

[ToneLa]

All his stuff is on Netflix at the moment.

Think Sane Man era Hicks' material and performances has aged better than Coming Out as The Undertaker Hicks!

[MortSahlFan]

I loved when he improvised, especially when he'd ask people in the audience a question and go with that..

His best material seems to be the shows with bad audio.. I also think his least-best was the stuff released on video - he wasn't able to think out loud as much, pause, riff. I think it was him being self-conscious or maybe knowing he'd only have a few chances to a wide audience. Unfortunately, many people I talk to only saw him on Letterman, which is the last thing I'd watch... I'd check out his interviews, and in general, I'd start from his beginning and move onward. I think he's the closest thing to Mort Sahl - that biting social satire; revealing truths which are funny; showing the irony while using language as a literate x-ray, an onslaught on what's happening, and how we got here.

It's hard to believe certain people changed their morality in minutes aligned with the money-talkers, following the herd to be on the safe side.

[gib]

In 25 years it'll be their turn to have their beliefs and behaviours scrutinized by whoever comes next.

I do keep thinking about this sort of thing. I'm probably committing some major gaffe right now by the standards of 2044, when starting a sentence with the pronoun 'I' will be massively frowned upon. Or something equally impossible to predict.

[jamiefairlie]

I do keep thinking about this sort of thing. I'm probably committing some major gaffe right now by the standards of 2044, when starting a sentence with the pronoun 'I' will be massively frowned upon. Or something equally impossible to predict.

Just tell them to fuck off, we lived through the 30 year Brexit crisis, so don't tell me not to say I, you little shit.

[Dusty Substance]

I actually thought that piece by Brian Logan was going to piss me off but was pleasantly surprised to read Kemah Bob's level headed words and that she was able to put the material into the context of the era - She also has every right to go heavily condemn him for his attitude towards women, but only goes as far as stating "a bit misogynist".

Then I got to Rob Oldham's thoughts and his hyperbolic use of "...deliver[ing] devastating one-liners to members of the hospitality industry". I'd never heard of Rob Oldham but he comes across as the kind of puritan sucker of Satan's cock Bill Hicks would have done a ten minute routine on.

We're probably going to see a load more of these articles re-assessing 90s and early 2000s comedy in the next few years. It'll be the 25th anniversary of South Park in three years and there's a whole load of stuff in those early seasons that could be considered problematic by today's standards.

But nobody should be surprised by that. Chunks of Hicks' material already seemed a little dated as early as five years after his death, so of course it's going to seem culturally out-of-step a quarter of a century later.  He remains monumentally important in my pantheon of favourite comedians of all time, but there a bits that I'd be embarrased to be caught laughing at.

[up_the_hampipe]

I think he's the closest thing to Mort Sahl

I love this gimmick.

[robotam]

With all this talk about people enjoying Hicks without finding him funny. I think it's safe to say Bill Hicks was the original Nanette

[biggytitbo]

He's worth it for his Jimmy White material alone.


On a related subject, can someone help me out with this? - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comedy-stand-up-sexism-racism-metoo-free-speech-ricky-gervais-dave-chappelle-a8796341.html


Is that a joke article or what?

[Jockice]

I admired his craft but he never really made me laugh either. I was more of a Jerry Sadowitz man in those days. And still am.

[gilbertharding]

I always preferred Denis Leary myself.

[MortSahlFan]

He's worth it for his Jimmy White material alone.


On a related subject, can someone help me out with this? - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comedy-stand-up-sexism-racism-metoo-free-speech-ricky-gervais-dave-chappelle-a8796341.html


Is that a joke article or what?

Yeah, that's a great one. I love the expanded version of all the angles. "I come back, and its Jimmy Fucking White"

The "Charlie Hodge" routine is great, too.

[ToneLa]

SIT ON MY KNEE, YOUNG UN! LET ME SHOW YOU HULK'S SPECIAL LOOOOVE HOLD!

[mippy]

I've found routinely the absolute worst people slag off Bill Hicks.

That said. Don't laugh at the cunt. Very watchable. Listenable. The lot, in fact.

Just don't laugh. Never had. Maybe a chuckle when he kicked off about Hulk Hogan...Been spellbound. Listened quoted met strangers and gotten engrossed. Nary a chuckle.

I reckon I'm doomed.

But I love him and I've yet to meet anyone feeling the opposite who isn't - without exception here, I'm not even exaggerating - a fucking embarassing car crash of a human being I pity and would help for eons before I laugh at em.

A bit like Bill Hicks

I was a young teenager when he was around, and as I didn't have the access to his work that those with YouTube/Spotify/torrents have now, he was rather ruined for me by black-clad teenage boys stealing his lines in order to impress me. Also, I get very tired about the advertising bit getting trotted out every time someone talks about ads on the internet. Not least because a) you'd be surprised how many 'credible' directors, musicians and performers have been involved in ads, and you can fuck off if you're going to strike Clinic, Los Campesinos, Shane Meadows or Thomas Tantrum off the 'artistic rollcall' b) it pays well, which pays the bills and so can be the difference between other projects actually getting made c) it's been overquoted so much that it's devolved into received opinion now which is a pretty shit deal for Hicks.

[momatt]

I get very tired about the advertising bit getting trotted out every time someone talks about ads on the internet. Not least because a) you'd be surprised how many 'credible' directors, musicians and performers have been involved in ads, and you can fuck off if you're going to strike Clinic, Los Campesinos, Shane Meadows or Thomas Tantrum off the 'artistic rollcall' b) it pays well, which pays the bills and so can be the difference between other projects actually getting made c) it's been overquoted so much that it's devolved into received opinion now which is a pretty shit deal for Hicks.

I think this bit was more relevant back then, when a band could make a decent living from LP/CD sales and wouldn't really need to whore themselves out to advertisers.
Now it's a necessity to make ends meet for a lot (I imagine).

I still agree with it in principle, especially if it's a really massive/loaded group like U2 or The Rolling Stones.
They really don't need that money.  Greedy fucks.

[BeardFaceMan]

The main point about people being struck of the artistic register for advertising was one of greed. The full bit is about people like George Michael and Madonna advertising Coke in a "don't they have enough money and fame already?" kind of way, while excusing Willie Nelson for doing it because he had a massive tax bill and needed the cash.

[MortSahlFan]

SIT ON MY KNEE, YOUNG UN! LET ME SHOW YOU HULK'S SPECIAL LOOOOVE HOLD!

"Hulk Hogan is a retard"
(mock voice/shout) "He's a retard that makes more money than you!"

[Silence]

<shouts> "Is that it is with you people? MONEY?" (more silence)

punch-line --- "We're gonna play putt-putt golf, so get ready"

[mippy]

The main point about people being struck of the artistic register for advertising was one of greed. The full bit is about people like George Michael and Madonna advertising Coke in a "don't they have enough money and fame already?" kind of way, while excusing Willie Nelson for doing it because he had a massive tax bill and needed the cash.

Aye, that makes perfect sense. And there are many examples that could slot in there today, believe me. It irritates me though when people trot it out on literally any discussion on advertising, regardless of topic or grounds for discussion, as happened often enough on another forum I post on that the mods now pre-emptively delete. It dilutes the point, removes the context, and is almost always used in such a smuggo way. Makes it feel as tired as Del Boy falling through the bar. Or maybe I know too many internet libertarians.

George Michael gave shittons of money to charity, I assume that's how things like the Coke contract happened. Kind of like how Keith Haring's work is heavily licensed in order to raise money for his AIDS/youth foundations.