Author Topic: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)  (Read 19932 times)

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #420 on: March 14, 2019, 12:58:06 PM »
Did Edwina Currie give him the keys to boys bedrooms and then claim that she had nothing to apologise for? 'Cos that would be a Savile comparison right there. The Currie Connection.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #421 on: March 14, 2019, 01:24:52 PM »
I already knew that MJ fans are completely bonkers, but seeing their comments about this is just... depressing. They all still desperately holding onto the idea that Jackson is innocent. The H3H3 podcast (both the video itself and the comments on the video) gives a good overview.

I'm not trying to imply the people in this thread who have questioned the evidence are in anyway like this, by the way. It's clear the Jackson fans have already made their minds up, which is very different.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #422 on: March 14, 2019, 01:31:15 PM »
I still like a bit of Jackson 5 stuff (most of it from when he was a black kid), and I still think Man In the Mirror live (and live only) is a decent song - I won't be deleting any of it off my music player.  After that I now consider him to be a small anus fancier, but that doesn't change my opinion one way or the other about the rest of his music.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #423 on: March 14, 2019, 01:36:04 PM »
Well when did he start ACTUALLY diddling? Just so I know which albums to stop listening to. I imagine Bad is out but what about Thriller?

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #424 on: March 14, 2019, 01:37:41 PM »
Well when did he start ACTUALLY diddling? Just so I know which albums to stop listening to. I imagine Bad is out but what about Thriller?

I presume the acquisition of Neverland would be a good yardstick.  Did he have a puzzle dungeon in his previous gaff?

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #425 on: March 14, 2019, 02:36:29 PM »
I wonder what the Jackson fans would require to change their minds.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #426 on: March 14, 2019, 02:39:07 PM »
I still think Man In the Mirror live (and live only) is a decent song

Even though he literally never once performed it live, i.e. without miming? Unless you count the old "secretly turn the mic on now" ad-libbing toward the end. The only available footage of him actually singing the whole thing is from the Dangerous tour rehearsals at Neverland, and it's kind of half-arsed because it's a rehearsal. Fuck, this knowledge is now even more useless and tragic than ever.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #427 on: March 14, 2019, 02:39:20 PM »
Well when did he start ACTUALLY diddling? Just so I know which albums to stop listening to. I imagine Bad is out but what about Thriller?

I mean, for what it's worth, the FBI file has an allegation from 1979 so you're probably better off not worrying about a start date and just going with your gut on how you feel about his music. I mean by all means keep listening, nobody should give a shit what art people choose to consume on their own time.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #428 on: March 14, 2019, 02:47:51 PM »
Even though he literally never once performed it live, i.e. without miming? Unless you count the old "secretly turn the mic on now" ad-libbing toward the end. The only available footage of him actually singing the whole thing is from the Dangerous tour rehearsals at Neverland, and it's kind of half-arsed because it's a rehearsal. Fuck, this knowledge is now even more useless and tragic than ever.

Never knew that, which perfectly illustrates my deep connection with him and his solo stuff...

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #429 on: March 14, 2019, 02:50:07 PM »
I wonder what the Jackson fans would require to change their minds.

It probably depends on the level of fandom, but there's a significant contingent of really devoted fans who really seem to think of Jackson as some sort of Superhero or Christ-like figure and I suspect that nothing will ever make them change their minds.

St_Eddie

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #430 on: March 14, 2019, 03:00:29 PM »
Just poking my head above water to chime in on a couple of thing...

I already knew that MJ fans are completely bonkers, but seeing their comments about this is just... depressing. They all still desperately holding onto the idea that Jackson is innocent. The H3H3 podcast (both the video itself and the comments on the video) gives a good overview.

I'm not trying to imply the people in this thread who have questioned the evidence are in anyway like this, by the way. It's clear the Jackson fans have already made their minds up, which is very different.

I feel that I should say that this is exactly why I was so dismissive and harsh towards TrenterPercenter.  I fully acknowledge that was wrong of me.  Ever since this documentary came out, I've been reading endless comments from the fans along the lines of what you describe and it led me to a point where upon reading TrenterPercenter's comments, I kinda just assumed he was another of the fans, wallowing in a pathetic level of denial.  That was completely unfair of me and I apologise to TrenterPercenter for that.

Those fans though... yeah, they can go get fucked.  The level of wilful ignorance is astonishing.  They won't even so much as entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, Michael Jackson was guilty.  It makes my blood boil.  That's no excuse for taking it out on TrenterPercenter though, who I can now see was simply trying to weigh up the evidence on both sides of argument, as well he/she should.

Well when did he start ACTUALLY diddling?

This is what La Toya Jackson said after the 1993 allegations...

Quote from: La Toya Jackson
“I just think Michael needs help. This has been going on since 1981, and it's not just one child.”

Naturally, as discussed within this thread earlier, this isn't necessarily the truth but I do personally think that it's true.  I don't buy into the whole "my manager made me say it" backpedaling.

*submerges head below water again*
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:12:16 PM by St_Eddie »

Phoenix Lazarus

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #431 on: March 14, 2019, 05:47:27 PM »
I still think Man In the Mirror live (and live only) is a decent song

It's about him giving directions to the film-maker behind the glass, before he brings a kid in.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #432 on: March 14, 2019, 05:57:30 PM »
It's about him giving directions to the film-maker behind the glass, before he brings a kid in.

Reminds me the B-side is better - Small Boy Anus Gape.

Rolf Lundgren

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #433 on: March 14, 2019, 06:13:31 PM »
Here is a very thorough and seemingly good-faith attempt at summarising the arguments for and against MJ's innocence.

That's really good, thanks for that.

It probably depends on the level of fandom, but there's a significant contingent of really devoted fans who really seem to think of Jackson as some sort of Superhero or Christ-like figure and I suspect that nothing will ever make them change their minds.

I tend to agree but I wonder if Macaulay Culkin stated that he'd been abused that would be a tipping point for some. I see him referenced a lot by his defenders as an example of Jackson's innocent friendship with boys. He would have less of an obvious motive and being high-profile would stand him out among other defenders like Brett Barnes and the Cascio brothers.

ToneLa

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #434 on: March 14, 2019, 06:30:11 PM »
I can't respect the "Macauley wasn't touched, so, innocent" line of thought

I mean, Shipman didn't kill EVERYONE he met! So clearly he was innocent!

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #435 on: March 14, 2019, 07:07:24 PM »
I can't respect the "Macauley wasn't touched, so, innocent" line of thought

I mean, Shipman didn't kill EVERYONE he met! So clearly he was innocent!

Yeah he probably just didn't fsncy Macauley.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #436 on: March 14, 2019, 08:31:49 PM »
I remember La Toya going public with this stuff and suspected the family managed to get her onside and silent.

Exactly.  I didn't really make that clear in my post, reading back, but it's what I was intending to hint at.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #437 on: March 14, 2019, 09:03:58 PM »
Yeah he probably just didn't fsncy Macauley.
neither did Harold Shipman

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #438 on: March 14, 2019, 09:29:39 PM »

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #439 on: March 14, 2019, 09:32:53 PM »

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #440 on: March 14, 2019, 10:21:33 PM »
Yeah he probably just didn't fsncy Macauley.

"Macauley Culkin?  Well, I'd go with Macauley...but I'd be thinking of Elijah."

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #441 on: March 15, 2019, 12:05:34 AM »

I'm not trying to imply the people in this thread who have questioned the evidence are in anyway like this, by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #442 on: March 17, 2019, 02:03:25 AM »
Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet, but I just saw this baffling clip of Wade Robson on Jimmy Kimmel back in 2003 denying MJ ever fiddled with him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCOiY0r0hRs

Wonder what the Kimmel of today would think of how he approached that.

Johnboy

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #443 on: March 17, 2019, 08:32:44 PM »
I don't think they could be lying, I mean I just don't see how they could conceive and execute some fabrication and it's obviously affected everyone who was interviewed - all the family members.

There are too many little details, sometimes insignificant that you just wouldn't make up. They're not actors, sure they know it's showbiz and they ham it up a bit - but they're not lying

It's understandable that they wouldn't have told the truth previously, it's understandable that it would take them years to realise that the secret they shared with Michael Jackson was actually abuse

I'd say we haven't heard the half of it yet

I have Off The Wall and a Jackson 5 comp, I don't know how I feel about those actual CDs now

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #444 on: March 17, 2019, 09:18:05 PM »
Well the CDs themselves didn't harm anyone, unless they were among the ones that cenobite used in Hellraiser III.

Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #445 on: March 17, 2019, 09:20:01 PM »
Well the CDs themselves didn't harm anyone, unless they were among the ones that cenobite used in Hellraiser III.

But listening on Spotify generates revenue for the Jackson Estate that is being used to being legal action against his victims.

ToneLa

  • Kill your masters
Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #446 on: March 17, 2019, 09:29:50 PM »
Honestly this fella is a total dirty creeping nonce who likely (unproven) sidled up to playgrounds in tall bushes (NOT TOO TALL EH MICHAEL) and if you can't find other music to replace it with in 20 fucking 19 you're woefully inadequate at tunes and don't actually like "music" anyway, just want to be frozen in some sad bubble of at best yir own youth (and if you cite an older sibling's taste, critical adulation or sales, you have my genuine, albeit massive, sneering spitting pity)

Woah, edgy

Edit: Added heartfelt grass allegation
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 10:03:04 PM by ToneLa »

chocky909

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #447 on: March 19, 2019, 02:10:29 AM »
https://youtu.be/7TQ9Tpc_-NU Rob Ager from Collative Learning "evidence of multiple takes"

I like this guy's film analysis usually but he's a bit of a reactionary nob'ead sometimes too and this vid is all opinion and little substance. Seems to think that spotting that the interviews weren't recorded in one session like they're presented in the doc is evidence the whole thing is faked.

famethrowa

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Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #448 on: March 19, 2019, 02:28:53 AM »
https://youtu.be/7TQ9Tpc_-NU Rob Ager from Collative Learning "evidence of multiple takes"

I like this guy's film analysis usually but he's a bit of a reactionary nob'ead sometimes too and this vid is all opinion and little substance. Seems to think that spotting that the interviews weren't recorded in one session like they're presented in the doc is evidence the whole thing is faked.


Re: Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)
« Reply #449 on: March 19, 2019, 11:23:44 AM »
Even though he literally never once performed it live, i.e. without miming? Unless you count the old "secretly turn the mic on now" ad-libbing toward the end. The only available footage of him actually singing the whole thing is from the Dangerous tour rehearsals at Neverland, and it's kind of half-arsed because it's a rehearsal. Fuck, this knowledge is now even more useless and tragic than ever.
This. Seeing him live on the HIStory tour burst the bubble for me. I clearly remember clocking within the first few songs he was miming. (Oddly apart from Wanna Be Startin Something which sounded bloody awful.) Watching him mime to Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough and Rock With You, back when he sang in a completely different style, was a particularly odd spectacle. It was all smoke and mirrors. I think his talent fell away years before that.