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March 29, 2024, 03:47:29 PM

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Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)

Started by popcorn, March 01, 2019, 10:38:28 AM

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mrpupkin

Yeah the miming had become ridiculous by that point, only eclipsed by the 2001 comeback show at MSG where he's literally covering his mouth with his hand for most of it, not trusting himself to even lip-sync convincingly. And yes the footage of him singing those Off the Wall songs on the History tour is really uncanny. All a shame really, his live singing was so good up to and including the Bad tour (he still mimed Man in the Mirror even then, but only after around two hours of extreme exertion and singing his balls off).

St_Eddie

Quote from: chocky909 on March 19, 2019, 02:10:29 AM
https://youtu.be/7TQ9Tpc_-NU Rob Ager from Collative Learning "evidence of multiple takes"

I like this guy's film analysis usually but he's a bit of a reactionary nob'ead sometimes too and this vid is all opinion and little substance. Seems to think that spotting that the interviews weren't recorded in one session like they're presented in the doc is evidence the whole thing is faked.

Urgh, I love Collative Learning's film analysis videos but the man himself is a twat.  A proper right-wing Brexit supporter with some very dubious racial opinions.  He can fuck off with this new video of his.  He's already revealed himself to be a big Michael Jackson fan in the past, so it comes as little surprise that's he's so keen to throw shade at anything negative said about his precious pop idol.

bgmnts

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 19, 2019, 04:42:48 PM
Urgh, I love Collative Learning's film analysis videos but the man himself is a twat.  A proper right-wing Brexit supporter with some very dubious racial opinions.  He can fuck off with this new video of his.  He's already revealed himself to be a big Michael Jackson fan in the past, so it comes as little surprise that's he's so keen to throw shade at anything negative said about his precious pop idol.

Oh fuck off is he really?

Buggery shit.

St_Eddie

Quote from: bgmnts on March 19, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Oh fuck off is he really?

Buggery shit.

Yeah.  He's done various videos on the topic of politics in the UK over the years and they're largely a disgrace.  I still enjoy his film analysis videos though.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Johnboy on March 17, 2019, 08:32:44 PM
I don't think they could be lying, I mean I just don't see how they could conceive and execute some fabrication and it's obviously affected everyone who was interviewed - all the family members.

There are too many little details, sometimes insignificant that you just wouldn't make up.

Firstly I'll quickly just say that following Eddie's link to the stuff the feds found at Neverland I'm now pretty much firmly in the guilty camp.

BUT, just to play devil's - ALL of the information is out there from the previous cases, so the MJ supporters and anyone who isn't necessarily an MJ supporter but has doubts about the validity of these claims could argue that they've just learnt all of it and perfected it over the last few years before going majorly public with it (previous relatively short interviews that Robson has given not being anything like on the same scale or at the same level of detail).

chocky909

#455
Quote from: St_Eddie on March 19, 2019, 07:00:32 PM
Yeah.  He's done various videos on the topic of politics in the UK over the years and they're largely a disgrace.  I still enjoy his film analysis videos though.

Ironically he relatively recently posted a terrific video about all the clues in The Shining that point toward Jack Torrance's probable sexual abuse of Danny.

https://youtu.be/dW2GrG7Zk0U


biggytitbo

And the sexual abuse was in turn a metaphor for the Apollo moon landings?

ToneLa

Quote from: biggytitbo on March 19, 2019, 10:45:35 PM
And the sexual abuse was in turn a metaphor for the Apollo moon landings?

Your weirdo conspiracy beliefs seem to get ever more credible. TELL ME MORE!

chocky909


Quote from: NoSleep on March 14, 2019, 12:55:07 PM
I remember La Toya going public with this stuff and suspected the family managed to get her onside and silent. Maybe her manager put her up to it (hardly good publicity for her, though), but that's more likely a good excuse to recant.

In the 1993 interview, Oprah asks Jackson about La Toya's book and its allegations. Oprah doesn't repeat it but the allegation was that Joe Jackson molested La Toya. Michael simply says that he hasn't read the book. Oprah presses a little but Mikey shuts it down. He hasn't read it, that's the honest truth, and therefore he can't comment on something he totally definitely hasn't read.

So there are two possibilities here. One is that Michael is aware of the pedo rumours about him and he knows these allegations about his father would support that perception. He lies and says he hasn't read it, because that allows him avoid the subject altogether.

OR he is telling the truth and he didn't read it. But what are the chances of that? If your sister wrote a book about your family - even a benign book - would it not be at the very top of your reading list? Would you really think, 'Nah, I don't feel like reading that. What's the point?' Or, 'Well I'll get around to it later, there are so many other things to read first. I filled my shelf with all this stuff from Amazon and it's embarrassing when my guests find out I haven't read them yet.' Not bloody likely, is it? You'd read that La Toya book ASAP.

I suppose the only reason I mention this is because, for me, it's a clear-cut example of him lying to the media with a calculating astuteness that he wouldn't possess if he truly had the mind and the naivete of a child, as some of his superfans choose to believe.

Utter Shit

Quote from: Default to the negative on March 20, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
OR he is telling the truth and he didn't read it. But what are the chances of that? If your sister wrote a book about your family - even a benign book - would it not be at the very top of your reading list? Would you really think, 'Nah, I don't feel like reading that. What's the point?' Or, 'Well I'll get around to it later, there are so many other things to read first. I filled my shelf with all this stuff from Amazon and it's embarrassing when my guests find out I haven't read them yet.' Not bloody likely, is it? You'd read that La Toya book ASAP.


I don't disagree with your overall assessment and in all probability Jackson just didn't want to answer questions, but I don't think you can discount the possibility that he hadn't read it. I can imagine someone not wanting to read a book like that specifically because they know it has tons of hurtful allegations in it. Whether he knew those rumours to be true, knew them to be untrue or didn't know either way, there are plausible reasons why you'd choose not to read it. I wouldn't read a book claiming that my dad raped my sister regardless of how in the loop I was about that allegation.

NoSleep

Not that not reading the book would necessarily mean you didn't know what it contained, especially with many family members possibly willing to volunteer a precis.

popcorn

Quote from: Default to the negative on March 20, 2019, 02:55:40 PM
If your sister wrote a book about your family - even a benign book - would it not be at the very top of your reading list? Would you really think, 'Nah, I don't feel like reading that. What's the point?' Or, 'Well I'll get around to it later, there are so many other things to read first. I filled my shelf with all this stuff from Amazon and it's embarrassing when my guests find out I haven't read them yet.' Not bloody likely, is it? You'd read that La Toya book ASAP.

I actually find that easy to imagine, especially for a celebrity as swamped in stories and gossip as MJ was. It could easily have been part of all the other noise. Perhaps this was especially hurtful and this would make him even less likely to read it.

If you want an example of MJ flat-out lying to the media, see him telling Martin Bashir he'd never had plastic surgery.

Sin Agog

I bet he'd have read it if La Toyah got Quentin Crisp to do the illustrations.

Quote from: popcorn on March 20, 2019, 03:27:38 PM
It could easily have been part of all the other noise.

I don't think so. If you watch the documentary Michael Jackson: What Really Happened?, which is on You Tube, you'll see his former manager Bob Jones talking about how MJ fabricated a lot of the stories that led to him being labelled 'wacko'. The stuff about Bubbles and sleeping in an oxygen tank - all Jacko's doing, apparently. The press ran with it and started to invent stories of their own, but usually in the style that Jackson wanted. According to Jones, Michael said, 'We can control the press. This is a breakthrough for us.'

I'd suggest that La Toya's book was something beyond his control, something that would demand his attention in a way the 'other noise' would not. It's not just 'a book' by Joe Gutterpress. It's a confession from behind the curtain.

I'd also go further and suggest that it could be expedient for a person with something to hide to cloud themselves in a smokescreen of disinformation. With the media were running stories about how Michael psychically levitated in his free time, he could say - as he does indeed say in the Oprah interview - that there was a huge amount of rubbish written about him and it should all be disregarded equally.

popcorn

Without wanting to be too dismissive... That's all speculation.

Quote from: popcorn on March 20, 2019, 03:57:21 PM
Without wanting to be too dismissive... That's all speculation.

Informed speculation.

But sure, there's no hard evidence. It's all testimony and I acknowledge that.

And in the interests of fairness, I'll also acknowledge that you can always find an ulterior motive in the accusers. In the documentary I mentioned, Bob Jones complains that he was suddenly fired by Michael without severance pay and without a vacation pay he believes was due. So, yeah, you can see him as someone with an axe to grind, settling an old score.

mrpupkin

All boy band members are taught to lie to interviewers from day one, you're selling a fantasy to the media and your fans. Pop star 101. It's just most of them aren't ten years old at the time and can process what's going on with an adult brain.

Head Gardener


Urinal Cake

Barbara Streisand (stupid song https://youtu.be/wWhtcU4-xAM) says stupid thing (again)
QuoteStreisand says that on the occasions she met Jackson, he was "very sweet, very childlike." But despite the material being painful to watch, she seems to have some sympathy for the late pop star. "His sexual needs were his sexual needs, coming from whatever childhood he has or whatever DNA he has," she told the Times.

"You can say 'molested,' but those children, as you heard them say [the grown-up Robson and Safechuk], they were thrilled to be there. They both married and they both have children, so it didn't kill them."
https://variety.com/2019/music/news/barbra-streisand-michael-jackson-accusers-thrilled-1203170747/



QuoteThe outspoken diva says her most recent album "Walls" is her most political ever. Although it doesn't mention Donald Trump by name, Streisand is strongly anti-Trump and many of the songs revolve around themes like "Don't Lie to Me."

Right, I'm going to define myself as an outspoken diva from now on. If it means I can get away with anything.

St_Eddie

I was sort of, kind of with her when she said...

Quote from: Barbara Streisand"His sexual needs were his sexual needs, coming from whatever childhood he has or whatever DNA he has,"

I mean, I agree that peadophiles don't choose to be sexually attracted to children.  Nobody wakes up one day and says "I think I'll give this paedophilic lark a try".  A lot of the time, peadophiles are themselves people who were sexually abused as children.  So, yeah.  I could see where she was coming from with that statement, even if it was worded poorly.  However, she then went and said this...

Quote from: Barbara Streisand"You can say 'molested,' but those children, as you heard them say [the grown-up Robson and Safechuk], they were thrilled to be there. They both married and they both have children, so it didn't kill them.

*clears throat*

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

By that logic; rape, mugging and aggravated assault are all a-okay, just as long as you show your victim a good time first and don't kill anybody.  Woohoo!  I guess it's a free for all, folks!  Oh no, actually, wait a moment.  That's what laws are for; to dissuade horrible people from doing horrible things.

What an idiot Barbara Streisand is.

NoSleep

Quote"You can say 'molested,' but those children, as you heard them say [the grown-up Robson and Safechuk], they were thrilled to be there. They both married and they both have children, so it didn't kill them.

That's textbook paedophile denial.

Urinal Cake

It's a defence/rationalisation that NAMBLA etc would love. Milo got ostracised for less. Pity she can rest on her laurels.

Butchers Blind

Has anyone asked for Richard E Grant's view on this statement?

machotrouts

Full respect to Barbra Streisand and her unwavering commitment to the homosexual agenda

José

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 23, 2019, 06:45:55 AM
I mean, I agree that peadophiles don't choose to be sexually attracted to children. 

is there any solid evidence to back this up?

ToneLa

That would be trying to prove a negative

In terms of logic it would be more correct to ask for proof they do choose..

Although I would argue the element of their choice comes when acting upon their impulses. And that in fact, is the criminal element (I remain baffled at suggestions one "couldn't help it" - as if I've left a wake of abused women in my wake, as if anyone with a sexuality automatically has taken advantage)

NoSleep

Barbara Streisand's comment don't factor in adult responsibility or the false pretences.

A pity Streisand's brains aren't in her nose.  She'd be the top MENSA member, then.