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Michael Jackson canceled (new documentary)

Started by popcorn, March 01, 2019, 10:38:28 AM

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St_Eddie

Quote from: ToneLa on March 23, 2019, 10:30:52 AM
I would argue the element of their choice comes when acting upon their impulses.

Exactly this.  I don't think that it's a stretch to suggest that peadophiles don't choose to be sexually attracted to children, any more than a straight adult chooses to be attracted to another adult of the opposite gender, or a gay adult chooses to be attracted to an adult of the same gender.  People don't choose who they're attracted to, they simply are.  The choice is to either act on that attraction or not.  This is why a subset of paedophilic offenders with some level of moral conscience choose to voluntarily be chemically castrated.  They know they can't control who they're attracted to, so they choose to try and remove their libido from the equation instead.

popcorn

You'll never remove my libido from the equation.

St_Eddie

Quote from: popcorn on March 23, 2019, 12:34:10 PM
You'll never remove my libido from the equation.

Well, certainly not with that kind of attitude, young man.  There'll be no chemical castration tonight.  You've peed on your chips, good and proper.  Now off to bed with you.

Bennett Brauer

Quote from: Phoenix Lazarus on March 23, 2019, 11:39:50 AM
A pity Streisand's brains aren't in her nose.  She'd be the top MENSA member, then.

Janie Jones

Quote from: Phoenix Lazarus on March 23, 2019, 11:39:50 AM
A pity Streisand's brains aren't in her nose.  She'd be the top MENSA member, then.
Mate.

Blumf

As always, Stanwyck proves to be the best Barbara (including Barbra's who can't spell their name right!)


NoSleep


Sin Agog

Quote from: Blumf on March 23, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
As always, Stanwyck proves to be the best Barbara (including Barbra's who can't spell their name right!)



She was quite a hardcore conservative in the Gary Cooper/John Wayne vein, and had a fairly big part in the blacklist.

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 23, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
This is why a subset of paedophilic offenders with some level of moral conscience choose to voluntarily be chemically castrated.


Is it really voluntary? The A Place For Paedophiles documentary showed that the pedos were kept in the institution for as long as they were deemed a potential danger, which in some cases meant an indefinite sentence. They had to take tests in which they had a pressure pad placed around their genitals while they were shown images of children. If the sensors picked up signs of stimulation, they failed the test. One of the men agreed to castration because it was his only chance of getting paroled. (IIRC it was surgical castration.)


That was America, though. Don't know if it's a similiar situation here.

Sin Agog

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 23, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
Exactly this.  I don't think that it's a stretch to suggest that peadophiles don't choose to be sexually attracted to children, any more than a straight adult chooses to be attracted to another adult of the opposite gender, or a gay adult chooses to be attracted to an adult of the same gender.  People don't choose who they're attracted to, they simply are.  The choice is to either act on that attraction or not.  This is why a subset of paedophilic offenders with some level of moral conscience choose to voluntarily be chemically castrated.  They know they can't control who they're attracted to, so they choose to try and remove their libido from the equation instead.

While I think it's important to be able to freely talk about some/most paedophiles being born that way without any social stigma attached, that's certainly not the only explanation for child abuse.  There is the accelerated spiral of taboo/desensitization- start with a foot fetish, end with a bevy of virgin boys; there is the cycle of abuse; the corroding effects of power and the pleasure it gains from corrupting innocence.  I've always said, though, that being a paedo isn't necessarily inherently bad.  It's being a sexually active one, who'll be willing to stamp their giant Monty Python foot in the path of a budding life just for a fleeting pleasure that's the terrible thing.  Then again, I might be wrong, as far too many paedophiles see the children as the seducers.  Still, I bet there are tons who just decide to go about their lives skipping the whole sex thing 'cause that way lies a world of trouble.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Default to the negative on March 23, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Is it really voluntary? The A Place For Paedophiles documentary showed that the pedos were kept in the institution for as long as they were deemed a potential danger, which in some cases meant an indefinite sentence. They had to take tests in which they had a pressure pad placed around their genitals while they were shown images of children. If the sensors picked up signs of stimulation, they failed the test. One of the men agreed to castration because it was his only chance of getting paroled. (IIRC it was surgical castration.)

This is a fair point and I'm not educated enough on the matter to weigh in on the subject.  However, I suspect that you are indeed correct.  What I do know is that certain countries have made it a law to have repeat offenders chemically castrated.  That doesn't sit quite right with me.


Quote from: Sin Agog on March 23, 2019, 04:47:26 PM
While I think it's important to be able to freely talk about some/most paedophiles being born that way without any social stigma attached, that's certainly not the only explanation for child abuse.  There is the accelerated spiral of taboo/desensitization- start with a foot fetish, end with a bevy of virgin boys; there is the cycle of abuse; the corroding effects of power and the pleasure it gains from corrupting innocence.  I've always said, though, that being a paedo isn't necessarily inherently bad.  It's being a sexually active one, who'll be willing to stamp their giant Monty Python foot in the path of a budding life just for a fleeting pleasure that's the terrible thing.  Then again, I might be wrong, as far too many paedophiles see the children as the seducers.  Still, I bet there are tons who just decide to go about their lives skipping the whole sex thing 'cause that way lies a world of trouble.

I agree with everything that you just said.  Not much else to add, I'm afraid.

chveik

Quote from: Sin Agog on March 23, 2019, 04:34:26 PM
She was quite a hardcore conservative in the Gary Cooper/John Wayne vein, and had a fairly big part in the blacklist.

why did you have to shatter my dreams?

Head Gardener

A still from the end of "Just Lose It" by Eminem in 2004 with a burned-hair MJ sitting on the bed with the kids bouncing on it behind him.


St_Eddie

Quote from: Head Gardener on March 23, 2019, 05:45:26 PM
A still from the end of "Just Lose It" by Eminem in 2004 with a burned-hair MJ sitting on the bed with the kids bouncing on it behind him.

I can't stand Eminem's music but I just watched the music video and yeah, fair play to him for that.

Sin Agog

Quote from: chveik on March 23, 2019, 05:41:42 PM
why did you have to shatter my dreams?

Did I mention that she was largely responsible for the initial success of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead?

idunnosomename

Diana Ross now

https://twitter.com/DianaRoss/status/1109492548320415746

YOU SILLY PEOPLE. WE CELEBRITIES CANT BE SEX OFFENDERS!!! WE ARE GODS WHO MAKE YOUR CULTURE WHICH YOU LAP UP LIKE STARVING DOGS. WITHOUT US YOU WOULD ATROPHY. So if one of us fucks a few kids DEAL WITH IT

Snake Plissken

Quote from: Head Gardener on March 23, 2019, 05:45:26 PM
A still from the end of "Just Lose It" by Eminem in 2004 with a burned-hair MJ sitting on the bed with the kids bouncing on it behind him.

Fun fact for you. MJ owned the rights to Eminems back catalogue after MJs partnership company bought out a publishing company Emiem & a few other artists were part of.

José

GARY GLITTER, UP THE SHITTER

MICHAEL JACKSON, WATCH YER BACK SON


St_Eddie

Quote from: José on March 25, 2019, 10:59:22 AM
GARY GLITTER, UP THE SHITTER

MICHAEL JACKSON, WATCH YER BACK SON

MICHAEL JACKSON, THE GLOVED WANK & SHUN

St_Eddie

JIMMY SAVILE, TO STOKE MANDEVILLE HE WILL RUN

KIDS FROM THAT HOSPITAL ARE NOW MIGHTY GLUM

BUT HE'S ALREADY DEAD SO DON'T FETCH THE GUN

Michael Jackson covers juniors in cum
R Kelly has young teens on his telly

Sin Agog


RedRevolver

Quote from: St_Eddie on March 25, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
JIMMY SAVILE, TO STOKE MANDEVILLE HE WILL RUN

KIDS FROM THAT HOSPITAL ARE NOW MIGHTY GLUM

BUT HE'S ALREADY DEAD SO DON'T FETCH THE GUN

Although replaying Theme Hospital might be a bit triggering.

Is all Paul McCartney stuff, solo or not, now tainted as he did two duets with an (overwhelmingly on the balance of probabilities) nonce? 

rue the polywhirl

The real question is 'Is Michael Jackson's work tainted because he did two duets with 80s era McCartney who on balance of probabilities was not very good by that point?'.

mrpupkin

What does anyone make of this - Neverland's train station in which James Safechuck said he was abused wasn't built until long after he says the abuse ended. Sorry for linking to the Mirror's horrendous website...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/leaving-neverland-director-makes-embarrassing-14221624

Dr Rock

https://www.nme.com/news/music/michael-jackson-biographer-exposes-wade-robson-james-safechucks-allegations-false-leaving-neverland-2469413

QuoteIn an additional statement to NME, Reed said that these documents did not clash with the claims made in the film as sexual abuse is still alleged to have occurred after the construction of the train station – which is depicted in Leaving Neverland.

"James Safechuck was present at Michael Jackson's Neverland Valley Ranch both before and after the construction of the train station there. The two still photographs of the train station shown in the documentary were taken by Safechuck and provided to the film-maker by him. Safechuck's testimony in the film is that he was abused by Jackson in multiple places over several years, into his teens."

Responding to a number of stories on Twitter, Reed further denied that there was a "U-Turn" in the claims, and declared that the evidence still supports the allegations made in the film as the alleged abuse occurred both before and after the construction of the train station.

"1. James Safechuck was at Neverland both before and after the construction of the train station there," wrote Reed. "The two still photos of the station shown in #leavingneverland were in fact taken by James, who is very clear that he was abused by Jackson in multiple places over many years."

He added: "2. #leavingneverland also makes clear that sexual contact between James and #MichaelJackson continued until James Safechuck was in his teenage years. The station at Neverland is just one of the many locations where James remembers sexual activity taking place."



Dr Rock

Bit late to this, but can echo that MJ fans are generally deluded, illiterate and desperate to claim MJ did nothing wrong.

I wonder about these fans. I remember Jackson was huge with Thriller, but didn't attract so many child fans until the follow up five years later, BAD. What was it about that record, or his image, that appealed so strongly to a generation of kids? Was it that he was the biggest star in the world, so would naturally attract youngsters just getting into music, and he was the only choice? I bet they never even listen to Off The Wall.

Director of Leaving Neverland says he plans a follow up doc if he can get other abuse accusers to tell their stories.

Noodle Lizard

I was 7 or 8 when I got into him (his type lol etc etc.)  It was more that I thought he was effortlessly cool and kind of flamboyant in a way I hadn't previously realized was acceptable from a man.  I also thought the Thriller video was the absolute tits and it scared the fuck out of me - also cool.  I later became more into John Landis, so all my role models are for shit really.

My parents obviously did a decent job of concealing the fact that he was a terrifying child catcher.  I didn't even really question the drastic changes in appearance at that age.  I just thought he was neat.

Dr Rock

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 22, 2019, 09:05:08 AM
It was more that I thought he was effortlessly cool and kind of flamboyant in a way I hadn't previously realized was acceptable from a man.

I think this has a lot to do with it. Little girls and some boys like non-threatening but non-conformist, dare-to-be-different pop stars. I wonder how calculated this was by MJ. His weird new look alienated a lot of his older fans, but the little girls understood. He mixed singing about sex, being persecuted, and stuck Macauley Culkin and loads of kids in his videos. A conscious attempt to secure far more kiddie fans (to molest)?