Author Topic: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais  (Read 6521 times)

Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« on: March 03, 2019, 06:51:01 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtj7LDYaufM

I think this deserves a thread of its own. Wynn's latest video discusses the "eternal tension between snowflakery and shitposting", ie being overly sensitive, censorial, etc, or just trying to get a laugh regardless of context, morality and so on. Your typical debate on offensive comedy, punching down, speaking truth to power etc. I've come across this a few times in male teenage students, they've said something unpleasant and their first defence is "political correctness! There's no right to be offended! and so forth". Clearly parroting thir alt-right YT idols.

She makes loads of great points. The idea of walking the tightrope between the two extremes makes sense. And the importance of knowledge on the subject that is being joked about.

The Gervais clips on trans people looked dull. I'd love to come up with some more frothing invective but it was just dull. Wynn does point out later that Gervais's bit is fuelling bigotry. It was your typical "I identify as something silly" schtick, in this case a chimp. Don't deadname me, call me Bobo.

Chriddof

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 11:40:51 PM »
I saw this as well, and I've not got much to add other than to say it was very good and to recommend it also.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 12:28:09 AM »
I watched Humanity the day it came out and I forgot how bad it is, just dire. Very good video.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 08:07:56 AM »
This was fantastic I thought. An insightful exploration of how "edgy" comedy can be most effective by being a delicate balancing act. Challenging preconceived notions of what's acceptable with warmth and understanding whilst making humour at the expense of it's subject. It also beautifully highlighed the utter laziness and nastiness of Gervais.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 12:32:56 PM »
Yes, almost started this very thread myself last night, and am glad you did. Thought it was an excellent dissection of dark comedy, and what is actually offensive, with Contrapoints deciding that lazy hacks like Gervais are. She even picked up on how much of his material is just crappy old memes, repackaged.

Yes though, Gervais bashing aside, it was a thoughtful and excellent dissection, and one of the best things I’ve seen about comedy for a long time. Definitely will be rewatching this, as there was so much substance in it. There was a particularly interesting point I want to revisit about how a lot of offensive comics are actually defended using moral arguments.

Petey Pate

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 12:59:25 PM »
Her point about needing a 'safe space for edginess' resonated with me. There's certainly a big difference between privately making really offensive jokes with your friends and publicly airing such material where it risks being misconstrued as bigotry. For similar reasons, I'm happy that Jerry Sadowitz is able to perform live but I don't think his uncensored act should be on television.

CaB to some extent operates as a 'safe space of edginess' due to poster anonymity but with it being a public internet forum the lines are somewhat blurred. Pre-gamer gate and the alt-right it would have been easier to defend the likes of 4chan as 'safe spaces of edginess', but we're now all aware how extremely transgressive online humour can negatively impact the real world.

alan nagsworth

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 08:53:19 AM »
Thanks for sharing this. As someone whose sense of humour is boundlessly morbid, offensive and downright fucking awful inside his own head, this is highly relevant and insightful to me. I also agree wholeheartedly with the idea that there are no real objective limits to comedy but there certainly are limits to where those comedic expressions can and should be shared.

The safe space stuff is especially applicable to me since the sense of humour I share with some of my friends is far more appalling than some of the stuff I say here but there’s no harm intended by any of us and there’s no way I’d ever suggest those things be broadcast publicly because the levels of harm that could come from them being misconstrued are blatantly obvious to me and I would never want to upset anyone. Part of that behind-closed-doors sense of humour I have comes from the fact I’m being wilfully ignorant just as a way of relieving my own messed up brain, and then I can get on with the rest of my life being a kind and tolerant person outside of that. I hope that makes sense.

St_Eddie

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 01:42:35 PM »
Wynn does point out later that Gervais's bit is fuelling bigotry. It was your typical "I identify as something silly" schtick, in this case a chimp. Don't deadname me, call me Bobo.

I reckon that bit is going to date about as well as Eddie Murphy's homophobic material.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 02:21:48 PM »
Is there a transcript of this that I can skim through without Studied YouTube Voice? I'm interested in the subject, but can't make it through this, and ten minutes in the argument's barely started.

She even picked up on how much of his material is just crappy old memes, repackaged.

There's a lot in that, I think. Key to Gervais' crapness is that it's just reheated, popularly acceptable edginess, for no purpose other than "I am safely edgy". It has no substance, he's making no argument, there's no contrast or context. His comedic persona is hollow.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 02:52:21 PM »
Contrapoints is good people, but this clearly needed more Derek!

alan nagsworth

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 03:57:38 PM »
There's a lot in that, I think. Key to Gervais' crapness is that it's just reheated, popularly acceptable edginess, for no purpose other than "I am safely edgy". It has no substance, he's making no argument, there's no contrast or context. His comedic persona is hollow.

Yep, one of the very well observed points of the video (not knocking you for having struggled with it, by the way, just adding some more praise from my end). Gervais, like Linehan, is a good example of a once-talented writer who's crawled into an internet hole. It's odd that a lot of people can't see the ego complex their heroes are growing when they're so blatantly regurgitating memes du jour as "original content" and retweeting one or two single opinions with an "EXACTLY" quote tacked on as if their platform grants them some sort of exclusive pass on deeming what is and isn't the gospel fucking truth.

Flat earth speculation would tip far further from preposterous memes to more considered speculation if Gervais posted a shirtless press photo of himself, exploded cigar clenched in the teeth of his barking anus of a mouth, with the words "EARTH = ROUND?" written on his belly, topped with the tweet caption "not everything's as round as your favourite award-winning tubby funster #selfdeprecation". Cunt.

I reckon that bit is going to date about as well as Eddie Murphy's homophobic material.

You could argue it almost already is as dated, at the rate we're going. It's certainly just as ugly by my reckoning.

St_Eddie

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 04:56:37 PM »
You could argue it almost already is as dated, at the rate we're going. It's certainly just as ugly by my reckoning.

Oh, I agree.  I was simply referring to mainstream society at large, who seemed quite happy to laugh along with that bit.

Yep, one of the very well observed points of the video (not knocking you for having struggled with it, by the way, just adding some more praise from my end). Gervais, like Linehan, is a good example of a once-talented writer who's crawled into an internet hole. It's odd that a lot of people can't see the ego complex their heroes are growing when they're so blatantly regurgitating memes du jour as "original content" and retweeting one or two single opinions with an "EXACTLY" quote tacked on as if their platform grants them some sort of exclusive pass on deeming what is and isn't the gospel fucking truth.

EXACTLY.

phes

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 05:56:31 PM »
I'm sure Wynn's philosophy isn't without its critics but to think Wynn and Gervais both graduated in philosophy, and both make food-for-thought comedy, and to look at the substance of their respective solo output. Well Gervais has truly had a shocker hasn't he. Unoriginal, uninspired, unfunny.

alan nagsworth

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 06:12:30 PM »
It's odd that a lot of people can't see the ego complex their heroes are growing when they're so blatantly regurgitating memes du jour as "original content" and retweeting one or two single opinions with an "EXACTLY" quote tacked on as if their platform grants them some sort of exclusive pass on deeming what is and isn't the gospel fucking truth.

Just want to elaborate on this a bit more: There is very much an online attitude of unavoidable groupthink and content stealing which contributes to how much people are willing to shrug off (or honestly just not consider at all) from big public figures like Gervais when they do it.

It's altogether very easy, especially in the last five years at least, for any online community to gather around a widely-reposted opinion. Quite how these things manage to gain initial traction over other things is a mystery to me (though I do think a large part of it is really just luck, for example how flat earth theorising became such a huge meme over other conspiracies) but people like Gervais perpetuating this stuff is corruptive and dangerous, not to mention having the faint whiff of a messiah complex (the gospel of the God internet hivemind, the Christ Gervais preaching it from on high, his Twitter disciples burning the disbelievers) which is ironic from such a staunch atheist. This is especially frustrating when his attitude screams "think for yourself" whilst he simultaneously tells people to stop being offended, which is exactly what thinking for yourself is.

This shit exists almost everywhere. Part of the reason I deactivated my Facebook account was because the last bastion of hope I thought I had was in a group for music obsessives with exceedingly eclectic tastes who, I soon found out, are willing to completely shit on you if you didn't think Playboy Carti's "Die Lit" was one of the best albums of 2018. The only reason that doesn't apply to the Anthony Fantano's controversial 6/10 rating on Kanye's "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" is because slating Fantano's ratings is a meme in itself so the disagreement is acceptable.

But, I digress. Ricky Gervais is a piece of shit.

Petey Pate

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2019, 12:19:58 PM »
Has there been any acknowledgement from Gervais that this video exists? Surely it's been tweeted at him numerous times by now.

Though maybe it's a blessing if he doesn't see it. At least the world would be spared from thousands of tweets and an hour long stand special about how Natalie Wynn didn't create The Office.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2019, 01:11:53 PM »
I watched Humanity the day it came out and I forgot how bad it is, just dire. Very good video.

Make your mind up!

Space ghost

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2019, 04:02:03 PM »
Is there a transcript of this that I can skim through without Studied YouTube Voice? I'm interested in the subject, but can't make it through this, and ten minutes in the argument's barely started.



Switch on subtitles and turn down the volume

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2019, 06:42:02 PM »
Natalie Wynn has spent a lot of time, intelligently dissecting and humorously pulling apart the online criticism she gets, I can't imagine her being too bothered if Gervais set his lynch mob on her.

Glad Contrapoints is getting more mentions and support on here though, I love her videos!

Enzo

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2019, 08:55:35 PM »
superb video. Haven't heard of her before, but this and in the incel video have me hooked. Thanks.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2019, 11:48:31 PM »
Is there a transcript of this that I can skim through without Studied YouTube Voice? I'm interested in the subject, but can't make it through this, and ten minutes in the argument's barely started.

It's a tiresome video but she's making a minimum of $200,000 a year off Patreon by churning this shit out, so hats off to her!

Jordan Peterson has also made a fortune from Patreon, which makes Contrapoints far closer to him than she'll ever be to me.

chveik

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2019, 12:48:37 AM »
It's a tiresome video but she's making a minimum of $200,000 a year off Patreon by churning this shit out, so hats off to her!

gee whizz! I still don't really understand this youtuber phenomenon. I suppose she's more interesting than others but is it really worth all that praise? in this case, all those things about Gervais have already been said by cabbers in countless threads.

phes

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 07:02:00 AM »
gee whizz! I still don't really understand this youtuber phenomenon

Oh

Quote
I suppose she's more interesting than others


Yes

Quote
but is it really worth all that praise? in this case, all those things about Gervais have already been said by cabbers in countless threads.

Don't really see any praise here for original criticism of Gervais. Relief that someone, anyone with some kind of clout has stood up and said what many people here also feel? Sure. Isn't most of the praise she's been getting for the more interesting questions that follow

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2019, 09:43:43 AM »
I suppose she's more interesting than others but is it really worth all that praise? in this case, all those things about Gervais have already been said by cabbers in countless threads.

Solution: Monetise CaB as some kind of hivemind chatterbot Youtuber w/ text to speech generation...!

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2019, 09:57:45 AM »
It's a tiresome video but she's making a minimum of $200,000 a year off Patreon by churning this shit out, so hats off to her!

Jordan Peterson has also made a fortune from Patreon, which makes Contrapoints far closer to him than she'll ever be to me.

Corbyn gets paid from the same pot as Rees-Mogg. Makes you think.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 10:02:17 AM »
Corbyn gets paid from the same pot as Rees-Mogg. Makes you think.

Outrageous. Drug money shouldn’t be used to pay public servants.

Chriddof

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2019, 02:38:14 PM »
Jordan Peterson has also made a fortune from Patreon, which makes Contrapoints far closer to him than she'll ever be to me.

That argument makes no sense, to the degree where I'm trying to work out what the point is. You know how Patreon functions, don't you? All kinds of different internet creators get funded by different groups of people. Just because an alt-right man who looks like Skeletor's boring uncle gets paid the same way as other people who are liberal doesn't make the whole thing tainted by association. CaB's favourite podcast Chart Music is funded using the same service, for a start.

Don't really see any praise here for original criticism of Gervais. Relief that someone, anyone with some kind of clout has stood up and said what many people here also feel? Sure. Isn't most of the praise she's been getting for the more interesting questions that follow

Yeah, that's it. It's someone who's had so much shit thrown at them they're not afraid of Gervais siccing his dopey attack dogs on them. And the tightrope metaphor articulated something so many people can't grasp - that going full-hog into either "Nanette"-esque political correctness or edgy anti-woke bollocks is artistically unsound.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2019, 07:43:49 PM »
That's like saying oooh hitler banks with Nationwide, you big Nazi with Britain's largest building society

Neomod

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 01:34:02 PM »
Can someone tell me the name of the classical piece at the beginning of her 'Are Traps Gay' video?

I know it's a well known piece but have no idea what it is.

Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 02:47:40 PM »
Most people don't know about this, but Contra is part of a group of left-leaning Youtube channels trying to fight the alt-right talking points and regressive views, with videos like SJW cringe compilation, or Shapiro DESTROYS feminist with facts and logic! appearing on the homepage of millions and millions of people with neutral views on politics and social issues, acting as propaganda. It wasn't calculated, people just started to call "BreadTube" to those type of content creators, with channels like Shaun, HBomberguy, and PhilosophyTube being the main ones.

Of course communists have infiltrated the movement, and think that criticizing Trump or asking for healthcare/free education is the same as defending Stalin and Mao. Loving the drama so far, to be honest.

chveik

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Re: Some Like It Dark - Contrapoints on Gervais
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 03:14:44 PM »
Can someone tell me the name of the classical piece at the beginning of her 'Are Traps Gay' video?

I know it's a well known piece but have no idea what it is.

Schubert's Piano trio No. 2 I reckon.